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#1 Peacebone

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 07:16 AM

Hello there everybody. My username is Peacebone, I'm a 15 year old deist (though I hope to prove that maturity does not have to be related to age), I'm finishing up freshman year in highschool, and I hope to one day become a biologist or doctor.

Anybody wondering about my username, Peacebone is the name of a song by one of my favorite bands, Animal Collective. Go on youtube and look it up, if you have the time, but if you're not used to indie music, be warned. It's a bit... different is a good word for it.

If you have anything you might want to ask me, do it here. I look forward to talking with you all.

#2 Adam Nagy

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:57 AM

Hey, peacebone,

Welcome to the boards. I'm listening to your favorite song. You call that music. :o :o Actually, when I was your age I probably would have liked that song. I used to really like Primus and Beastie Boys among other things. Not my cup of tea anymore. :)

You said your a deist. What led you to that conclusion?

BTW, I never judge anyone based on age or education. I always look for honesty and the content of their convictions.

Adam

#3 Peacebone

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:09 AM

I don't listen to the Beastie Boys very much, but what I've heard from them I've enjoyed.

The reason I am a deist is because I have not seen any convincing evidence that there is a G-d besides one that does not take action in our affairs. I believe in the power of the individual to activate his or her own actions, opinions, and thoughts. Essentially I'm an atheist, but I haven't seen any evidence for the _lack_ of a G-d either.

#4 Adam Nagy

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:17 AM

I don't listen to the Beastie Boys very much, but what I've heard from them I've enjoyed.

The reason I am a deist is because I have not seen any convincing evidence that there is a G-d besides one that does not take action in our affairs. I believe in the power of the individual to activate his or her own actions, opinions, and thoughts. Essentially I'm an atheist, but I haven't seen any evidence for the _lack_ of a G-d either.

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Are you Jewish? I'm just curious because you are taking the time to write G-d the way orthodox Jews would.

How would it effect your pursuit of truth if it could be demonstrated that evolution lacked the explanatory power that it professes to have? Would you be able to step back and see a more miraculous perspective to life on Earth as we know it?

#5 Peacebone

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:32 AM

Are you Jewish? I'm just curious because you are taking the time to write G-d the way orthodox Jews would.

No, I am not Jewish, but I admire their respect for G-d and write the word as they do for this reason.

How would it effect your pursuit of truth if it could be demonstrated that evolution lacked the explanatory power that it professes to have? Would you be able to step back and see a more miraculous perspective to life on Earth as we know it?


I don't think so. If evolution was falsified in some way, I would begin pondering a different natural explanation for speciation.

#6 Adam Nagy

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:37 AM

I don't think so. If evolution was falsified in some way, I would begin pondering a different natural explanation for speciation.

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So you admit that you limit yourself to only philosophical naturalism. How could a person in this position discover evidence for the creator if evidence that points to the creator is rejected as necessarily an unsolved natural phenomena and nothing more.

Would you agree that this is a philosophical issue and not a scientific evidence issue?

#7 Adam Nagy

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:53 AM

No, I am not Jewish, but I admire their respect for G-d and write the word as they do for this reason.

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That's cool. I actually kind of admire that practice. I would definitely take the effort to do that if I ever found myself dialoguing on a Jewish forum.

#8 Preachbill

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 12:44 PM

Welcome to the boards Peacebone...

#9 Peacebone

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:44 PM

So you admit that you limit yourself to only philosophical naturalism. How could a person in this position discover evidnece for the creator if evidence that points to the creator is rejected as necessarily an unsolved natural phenomena and nothing more.


I think many things from philosophical perspective are a matter of choice. Whether that choice is made consciously or subconsciously, it is still a matter of choice. We both have seen the same evidence. To me, the most reasonable explanation for what I have seen is natural. To you, the most reasonable explanation for what you have seen is divine. So yes, since I make this choice, it would be very hard to find evidence for the divine, but what can anybody do about that? My perspective is a product of my past experience, and it will not be easily changed, even if I want to believe in YHWH.

Would you agree that this is a philosophical issue and not a scientific evidence issue?

The credibility of evolution? No, I do not.

#10 ikester7579

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:36 PM

Welcome.

I like Third Day musc.

I think many things from philosophical perspective are a matter of choice. Whether that choice is made consciously or subconsciously, it is still a matter of choice. We both have seen the same evidence. To me, the most reasonable explanation for what I have seen is natural. To you, the most reasonable explanation for what you have seen is divine. So yes, since I make this choice, it would be very hard to find evidence for the divine, but what can anybody do about that? My perspective is a product of my past experience, and it will not be easily changed, even if I want to believe in YHWH.


Everything that exists, exist because there are laws that allow it to exist. Everything that functions, functions because there are laws that allow it to function. Living and dead matter exist because there are laws that allow them to exist. Etc...

When you formulate something in a lab, what allows that formulation to work? Laws. What is required to make the formulation? Intelligence.

Laws cannot evolve, poof themselves into existence. Nor make themselves randomly work together in harmony. In fact there is no known physical explaination as to how that the laws that exist, that govern our finite universe, came to be. Which leaves only "one" answer. Existing laws = a Law Giver.

Also, these laws (laws of physics etc...) are formulated to work together, and therefore work in harmony. Which allows the universe to exist. There is no known physical scientific explaination for how laws came to be, much less be formulated to work in harmony. Formulations = knowledge. Knowledge = intelligence. Intelligence = a being.

The things that science cannot explain, science ignores in hopes that no one will ask them to explain. This is one of those things where when you use the process of elimination. It always points to "one" answer (God). One that even the smartest scientist cannot answer (not wanting to admit to God). But would rather not ponder the only answer left. God. So they use any excuse like: Laws are eternal. Which explains nothing but is a cop out.

#11 the totton linnet

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 05:23 PM

Hi Peacebone :lol:




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