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#1 chipwag64

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:50 AM

Hello all,

I am blessed to have found this forum, having come from a short-lived trial at another forum where childish attacks seemed to be the norm, even from "religious" people.
I am not really into debating with atheists/agnostics and especially evolutionists because I don't see any benefit to anyone there ( more on that later).
When I think of debate, I immediately think arguements, opinions, hostility etc.
I am all for honest, open minded sharing of scripture with Christians or otherwise, considering myself always ready and willing to learn.

I grew up going to church every week for 38 years, less frequent for the last several years of that time, until my eyes were opened to the truth about 6.5 years ago.
I immediately had a hunger for the word which hasn't diminished at all, and I love studying the Greek of the N.T., trying to teach myself from a grammar.

The two reasons that I was looking for an evolution topical forum was first, to get an understanding of what "evolution" means, the basics, for evangelism purposes when meeting an evolutionist.
The second reason has to do with the Biblical word "faith". If I understand "faith" by it's very definition in Hebrews 11:1-3, that IS our evidence of things unseen by which we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God.
So, as I mentioned above about not debating with Agnostics/Atheists/Evolutionists, I do not, because, if they don't have faith, then it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to see what we see through the "eyes" of faith.
Therefore, the "evidence" that they require to prove the creationist position can only be physical, material substance, which seems to be where the dialogues always end up with them.
Hope I didn't confuse anyone...I look forward to interesting conversation!!

:o

#2 Adam Nagy

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:01 AM

Welcome, Chip! I hope you enjoy it here. :o

#3 de_skudd

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:58 AM

Good afternoon Chipwag :o

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 11:00 PM

The main reason they attack YEC is because evolution was thought up by someone whom used to believe YEC.

Yep, when Darwin got his degree in theology. Theology of that time taught Biblical literalism. Which means that Darwin was taught literal creation. Then upon reading Lyell's book which was a total attack on this. Darwin rejected the teaching and made up a theory to attack that very teaching.

That is why evolutionists can focus so well in their attacks on YEC, their theory is designed with YEC in mind. And how to get others to reject it as well.

#5 CTD

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 01:43 AM

The second reason has to do with the Biblical word "faith". If I understand "faith" by it's very definition in Hebrews 11:1-3, that IS our evidence of things unseen by which we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God.
So, as I mentioned above about not debating with Agnostics/Atheists/Evolutionists, I do not, because, if they don't have faith, then it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to see what we see through the "eyes" of faith. 
Therefore, the "evidence" that they require to prove the creationist position can only be physical, material substance, which seems to be where the dialogues always end up with them.
Hope I didn't confuse anyone...I look forward to interesting conversation!!

:mellow:

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Hello chipwag64. If I understand you correctly, most creationists here will not be in agreeement with your opinion. The faith one receives with salvation is entirely different from the run-of-the-mill, everyday faith required to understand that we were created and God exists. Scripture says they are without excuse; that's how obvious it is.

Just look at the very beginning. Cain knew God existed.

It is not impossible for them to understand creation; quite the opposite. It is impossible for anyone to convince themselves they weren't created, unless they're helped in the endeavour.

Anyhow, welcome. I hope you'll profit and even contribute when you have opportunities. There is a good treasury of information in the older threads; that's what I always try to remind everyone.

#6 chipwag64

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 04:22 AM

CTD,

When I spoke of faith, I was not referring to faith to understand, I was speaking of faith to believe in God.
I understand that Romans 1 tells us that they are without excuse and that the truth is supressed in unrighteousness.
I just think of so many different Bible passages where people were witnesses to Jesus miracles and words, yet walked away!!
Look at Cain as your example, yes he did believe that God existed because he brought an offering to Him, but Cain did not believe that God was good, and that God was his Lord.
Paul tells us in 2 Corinth 4:3-4 that unbelievers are blinded in unbelief, Paul also tells us in Romans 11:7 that Israel is blinded.
I look at the parable of the sower also in Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8.
My understanding of this is that the heart, (soil) must be prepared to receive the seed of the word.
I could go on and on and on, but my point is that seeing is not believing.
For 38 years I believed fully that God created this world, but I didn't believe, nor knew God who created it all!!

Sorry to reply in this section, I probably should start a thread for discussion of this, if anyone sees a need.

Chip

#7 Adam Nagy

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 05:51 AM

Sorry to reply in this section, I probably should start a thread for discussion of this, if anyone sees a need.

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Could be interesting. That's what this forum is here for... to wrestle over ideas.

#8 the totton linnet

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:25 AM

Could be interesting. That's what this forum is here for... to wrestle over ideas.

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*
Puts Adam in a headlock :P Hi Chip, Cain must have worked very hard all year to bring his offering of the fruits of the ground to the Lord, his offering was already spoiling, while Abel was tucking in and enjoying and sharing his. jus' thoughts.
*
Hey mebbe while Cain was digging he found the fossil of the tooth fairy, Cain was the 1st evolutionist :lol:

#9 Adam Nagy

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 12:23 PM

Puts Adam in a headlock  :lol:

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Did you use deodorant? :P

#10 de_skudd

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 01:09 PM

Cain was the 1st evolutionist 

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:lol:

#11 the totton linnet

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 01:39 PM

:P

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*
Well he certainly frowned at God :lol:

#12 the totton linnet

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 02:37 PM

Did you use deodorant?  :P

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*
Yeah Wallmarts own brand 60p =a dollar, that's worse than no deoderant at all :lol:

#13 CTD

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 03:22 PM

CTD,

When I spoke of faith, I was not referring to faith to understand, I was speaking of faith to believe in God.
I understand that Romans 1 tells us that they are without excuse and that the truth is supressed in unrighteousness.
I just think of so many different Bible passages where people were witnesses to Jesus miracles and words, yet walked away!!
Look at Cain as your example, yes he did believe that God existed because he brought an offering to Him, but Cain did not believe that God was good, and that God was his Lord.
Paul tells us in 2 Corinth 4:3-4 that unbelievers are blinded in unbelief, Paul also tells us in Romans 11:7 that Israel is blinded.
I look at the parable of the sower also in Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8.
My understanding of this is that the heart, (soil) must be prepared to receive the seed of the word.
I could go on and on and on, but my point is that seeing is not believing.
For 38 years I believed fully that God created this world, but I didn't believe, nor knew God who created it all!!

Sorry to reply in this section, I probably should start a thread for discussion of this, if anyone sees a need.

Chip

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Good good good. Sorry I misunderstood. One encounters a lot of thinking along those lines, and it's a relief to find that you understand.

There are way too many examples to choose from; I just picked Cain for chronological reasons. The most shocking to me personally is the Israelites coming out of Egypt. Within 2 or 3 months (imperfect memory here) they were acting as if they never saw anything at all!

#14 CTD

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 03:32 PM

Cain was the 1st evolutionist 

:P

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It's almost plausible. They hadn't invented the doctrine of common ancestry yet. And his children were into technology, so they would've had some actual science to use to cloak the antiscience. Cain built a city too, so he might've even played the popularity & conformism angles.

But one really shouldn't base history on what one just thinks up. We know where that leads. :lol:

#15 Ron

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 04:17 PM

But one really shouldn't base history on what one just thinks up. We know where that leads.  :P

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Yes, straight to books written by Bart D. Ehrman! Why rely on history when you can make up your own :lol:




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