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#1 Paul5388

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 12:58 PM

Many people are pretty much in the dark about oil, mainly due to lack of contact with production. Here are a few things to consider.

In 1930, about 20 miles from where I am, the Daisy Bradford #3 was drilled at a depth of 1530 feet. The Daisy Bradford is still in production, almost 80 years later.

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Daisy Bradford No. 3, the rank wildcat well that discovered the giant East Texas oil field which, with an estimated recovery of 6 billion barrels of oil, became the largest oil field in the world at that time.


Prior to this, the Beaumont area (Spindletop) brought in heavy production in 1901.

The Lucas geyser, found at a depth of 1,139 feet, blew a stream of oil over 100 feet high until it was capped nine days later and flowed an estimated 100,000 barrels a day.


That's two areas, about 200 miles apart, that were producing at 1500 feet or less.

When the initial flow from Spindletop dwindled from overproduction, a deeper probe was made.

on November 13, 1925, the Yount-Lee Oil Company brought in a flank well drilled to 5,400 feet.


Things still weren't finished for Spindletop as it went even deeper.

In 1963-66 even deeper oil production was achieved with an average depth of 9,000 feet.


To put that into perspective, the production began about 1/4 mile deep, then it went down to about 1.0 mile deep and finally to about 1.8 miles deep.

Locally, we've experienced much the same in the East Texas field. The shallow oil and gas production has been pushed deeper, while the shallow lignite (a low grade coal that's isn't too much more than black dirt) is also being exploited, like this Texas Utility dragline in operation.

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We are currently receiving royalties from the Cotton Valley formation in the Carthage field similar to this report.

Devon Energy Production Company has completed the Fender, H.R. Well No. 19 in the Carthage Field. This well was completed to a depth of 9,591-feet 5.7 miles southwest from Carthage. This well showed a potential of 1.591 million cubic feet of gas when gauged on an adjustable choke. Production is in the Cotton Valley formation.

That's million cubic feet per day in production.

The latest "find" is the Bossier/Haynesville shale formation or Barnett shale around the Dallas area, that's even deeper than the Cotton Valley, like in this report.

XTO Energy Inc. has completed the Harris-Drummond Gas Unit II Well No. 3H in the Carthage, North Field. This well is located 6.9 miles southeast of DeBerry with a depth of 15,500-feet. The well was gauged on a 16/64-inch choke and showed a potential of 3.682 million cubic feet of gas. Production is in the Bossier Shale formation.


So, we're down to 15,000 feet now, almost 3 miles deep or 10 times as deep as the Daisy Bradford #3, and still finding gas and liquid hydrocarbons. While the formations do undulate, which makes their depth vary, the depth is ever increasing.

With the increase in depth over wide areas, the layering at vastly differing depths would seem to indicate there is no connection to it being a "fossil fuel" or the Flood. It's quite possible it's still being made today.

Although accidents and hurricane damage to infrastructure are often to blame for oil spills and the resulting pollution in coastal Gulf of Mexico waters, natural seepage from the ocean floor introduces a significant amount of oil to ocean environments as well. source


Using a technique they developed in the early 1990s to help explore for oil in the deep ocean, Earth Satellite Corporation scientists found that there are over 600 different areas where oil oozes from rocks underlying the Gulf of Mexico. The oil bubbles up from a cracks in ocean bottom sediments and spreads out with the wind to an area covering about 4 square miles. source


Recent measurements in a major oil field show "that the fluids were changing over time; that very light oil and gas were being injected from below, even as the producing [oil pumping] was going on," said chemical oceanographer Mahlon "Chuck" Kennicutt. "They are refilling as we speak. But whether this is a worldwide phenomenon, we don't know."

Kennicutt, a faculty member at Texas A&M University, said it is now clear that gas and oil are coming into the known reservoirs very rapidly in terms of geologic time. The inflow of new gas, and some oil, has been detectable in as little as three to 10 years. In the past, it was not suspected that oil fields can refill because it was assumed the oil formed in place, or nearby, rather than far below. source



#2 scott

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 04:03 PM

I believe that the vast majority of oil was created by the flood, because it makes sense seeing as how vast amounts of sediment compressed lots of organisms... that were made up of carbon. Thus forming oil.

#3 Adam Nagy

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 09:22 PM

Hey Guys,

I went ahead and split a topic out of this thread for you:

http://www.evolution...?showtopic=2472

#4 Paul5388

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 09:37 PM

Adam,

Sometimes it's hard to make the Israelites stop wandering in the wilderness. :lol:

Scott,

Which depth would you suggest is the flood oil, the layer at 1500 feet, 5400 feet or 9,000+ feet? Of course, it could also be the lignite layer right under the surface. I hit traces of lignite in my front yard at about 17 feet.

You also have to factor in the state stone/rock of Texas and Louisiana, petrified palm wood. It supposedly takes 10-40 million years to make petrified wood. I find it on the surface or very shallow all the time. Here's piece I found out behind the barn.

Posted Image

I suppose the paddle bit, since it was in the same layer, must be the same age. <_<

#5 Paul5388

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 10:42 PM

BTW, here's another piece of petrified wood, but it's considerably larger, like close to 3 feet long.

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Other than petrified wood, all we have in the way of rocks is iron ore rocks.

#6 pdw709

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 02:25 AM

With the increase in depth over wide areas, the layering at vastly differing depths would seem to indicate there is no connection to it being a "fossil fuel" or the Flood.  It's quite possible it's still being made today.

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You are quite correct, the burial depth/pressure required to "cook" source kitchens does indeed vary. However it can be shown that world wide, many of these "kitchens" are still active today and filling reservoir structures.

#7 Adam Nagy

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 05:45 AM

I think the prospect that the deep oil of the earth is actually an internally generated product unlike the fossil fuels like coal is very interesting. I've heard that argument for several years and have always been intrigued by the natural as well as the sociopolitical implications.

#8 pdw709

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:02 AM

I think the prospect that the deep oil of the earth is actually an internally generated product unlike the fossil fuels like coal is very interesting. I've heard that argument for several years and have always been intrigued by the natural as well as the sociopolitical implications.

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I't certainly sounds an intereserting proposition. Do you have any sources/evidence to support this argument?

Petroleum reserves have a unique chemical signature or "fingerprint" that can reflect the unique set of organic/chemical componants that produced it. For example a sample of "Brent" crude from North West Europe contains a unique marker from the Kimmeridge Clay source rocks that produced it, and this in turn is very different from say "West Texas" crude.

#9 Adam Nagy

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:07 AM

I't certainly sounds an intereserting proposition. Do you have any sources/evidence to support this argument?

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I believe that one of the key pieces of evidence is the unusual attributes of certain reservoirs that run low and then seem to replenish themselves along with the unusual production of oil along deep ocean features. Now I believe there are convincing speculative arguments on both sides for why this occurs but I personally know very little about the topic. I believe we have a couple of well versed members that could offer the arguments for both sides so we could both get educated on the subject. :(

The interesting thing is that the social molders who use the "We're running out of fossil fuels" argument to push their own agenda would be very interested in keeping people from taking this possibility seriously.

#10 Paul5388

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 10:34 AM

At one time, Chesapeake was paying $25,000/acre for leasing down to the Haynesville Shale. That formation extends from northwestern Louisiana to eastern Texas, but sadly doesn't affect me yet. :(

There are Haynesville Shale wells producing 15 million cubic feet per day, but they're closer to Shreveport, LA than here.

The obvious choice for cleaner burning vehicles is Compressed Natural Gas (CNG), LPG or other compressed gases. The technology for their utilization has been in place for many years to included dual fuel applications where gasoline can be used too.

Lower maintenance is also an advantage with gaseous fuels.

As far as the "new" gas and oil, here's some of the thinking on the process.

It is suspected that the process of upward migration of petroleum is driven by natural gas that is being continually produced both by deeply buried bacteria and from oil being broken down in the deeper, hotter layers of sediment. The pressures and heat at great depth are thought to be increasing because the ground is sinking -- subsiding -- as a result of new sediments piling up on top.


If it is indeed deep buried bacteria at work, the chances of ever being exposed to C14 are very slim. Even if it was freshly generated, it wouldn't exhibit any indicators of a young age.

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 02:30 PM

I believe that one of the key pieces of evidence is the unusual attributes of certain reservoirs that run low and then seem to replenish themselves along with the unusual production of oil along deep ocean features. Now I believe there are convincing speculative arguments on both sides for why this occurs but I personally know very little about the topic. I believe we have a couple of well versed members that could offer the arguments for both sides so we could both get educated on the subject. :mellow:

The interesting thing is that the social molders who use the "We're running out of fossil fuels" argument to push their own agenda would be very interested in keeping people from taking this possibility seriously.

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What reservoirs are you talking about? There are natural, and artificial, ways production can be maintained even as more petroleum is pumped out. Running low is a relative term because when we pack up, cement, and leave there's still a sizable amount of oil.

I'm with you about the fossil fuel people. None of them seem to care how many of us in the energy industry will be out of work.

#12 Adam Nagy

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 02:33 PM

What reservoirs are you talking about?  There are natural, and artificial, ways production can be maintained even as more petroleum is pumped out.  Running low is a relative term because when we pack up, cement, and leave there's still a sizable amount of oil.

I'm with you about the fossil fuel people.  None of them seem to care how many of us in the energy industry will be out of work.

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Hey tharock, I know so little about the arguments that I would pass your questions off to someone who knows the details. I don't feel comfortable defending anything here since I know so little. I'd like to learn though.

#13 scott

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:43 AM

Well, it depends. How far down do the fossils go??? I don't really know.

#14 Adam Nagy

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:50 AM

Well, it depends.  How far down do the fossils go???  I don't really know.

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I don't know. This would be a good question for someone who specializes in piecing the flood event together. What's a reasonable estimate for how much of the earth's surface, on average, was uprooted when the fountains of the great deep burst open? What is arguably the shallowest effect on the earth's surface and what is the deepest area reached by raging currents of water?

I have a hypothesis that is just a guess at this time, but based on Walt Browns hydroplate theory and based on the unique structure of Florida and the fact that it has an underground aquifer...

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...plus it's unusual habitat. I speculate that an area like Florida was less affected by the flood. That aquifer may give us a small glimpse of what the fountains of the great deep were but on a smaller scale.

Now my question that is in line with this thread is this. Is Florida rich or poor in fossil fuels? What kind of coal seems are found in Florida? What kind of oil deposits? I've never heard of Florida being known for its fossil fuels. Am I right on this?

Ikester being a Florida resident should have some insight on this.

#15 Paul5388

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:40 PM

Adam,

There's plenty of oil in the Gulf, with quite a bit being fairly close to Florida. You have to remember the moratorium on drilling off the coast of just about everywhere, except Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. Thank your local and national Democrats for that situation.

Of course, there's always a silver lining, I make more royalties on the same amount of gas when the supply can't keep up with demand. Devon just renewed a lease we have on 13.75 acres under a lake, so there's an indication there will eventually be some production there too, since they usually don't just throw lease money away. :)

#16 Adam Nagy

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:45 PM

Adam,

There's plenty of oil in the Gulf, with quite a bit being fairly close to Florida.  You have to remember the moratorium on drilling off the coast of just about everywhere, except Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.  Thank your local and national Democrats for that situation.

Of course, there's always a silver lining, I make more royalties on the same amount of gas when the supply can't keep up with demand.  Devon just renewed a lease we have on 13.75 acres under a lake, so there's an indication there will eventually be some production there too, since they usually don't just throw lease money away. :)

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Thanks for the info. The gulf I can understand. I'm curious what kind of fossil fuels are found on the land in Florida and I'm actually more curious about the coal content and composition even though this thread is dealing with oil.

#17 Adam Nagy

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:50 PM

It does look like there is oil under Florida:

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It does look like Florida is poor in coal. I might be on to something:

Posted Image

What if oil and coal do have different sources? What if coal is a flood product and oil is not?

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:51 PM

Adam,

There's plenty of oil in the Gulf, with quite a bit being fairly close to Florida.  You have to remember the moratorium on drilling off the coast of just about everywhere, except Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.  Thank your local and national Democrats for that situation.

Of course, there's always a silver lining, I make more royalties on the same amount of gas when the supply can't keep up with demand.  Devon just renewed a lease we have on 13.75 acres under a lake, so there's an indication there will eventually be some production there too, since they usually don't just throw lease money away. :)

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Yeah, I have coworkers who would love to drill the Destin Dome if it weren't for that moratorium. That's mostly gas though. There are also sizable oil reserves onshore in the US such as the Bakken shale. It's just so difficult and expensive to drill there.

Hey tharock, I know so little about the arguments that I would pass your questions off to someone who knows the details. I don't feel comfortable defending anything here since I know so little. I'd like to learn though.


I'll try to answer any questions you might have.

#19 Adam Nagy

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 12:58 PM

I'll try to answer any questions you might have.

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Thanks. I love knowing I can take advantage of other people's knowledge and areas of expertise. :)

Are there overlays showing the difference between how coal is dispersed on the planet versus oil? What about showing the varying depths and thicknesses of these deposits relative to each other?

Are there areas of the planet that are known to be free of fossil fuels? Are there maps that show known areas that are void of deposits?

#20 Ron

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 05:20 AM

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What if oil and coal do have different sources? What if coal is a flood product and oil is not?

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Hey Adam, it looks like that Bituminous field goes right under both of our houses :huh:


I'll go grab a shovel :lol:




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