Not a problem mate. This forum is cool, but it shouldn't get in the way of real life
I think you are correct in saying we need to understand the difference between physical and material. My problem is I don't think they are any different, and that's what we'll need to work on.
I think we are beginning to make a liitle progress. Even though our philosophies are diametrically opposed, you apprear to be willing to discuss in an honest and open dialog.
What I highlighted is the part of your belief system that I called faith in another topic discussion. It is your axiom. Your foundational belief system.
My axiom is that God is the author of the Bible and His word is true. Every thing I do is based or related to that. Your axiom is that everthing has a natural explanation. These axioms create our paradigm of logical thinking. If we limit ourselves to just one paradigm, then we cannot see any logic in the other paradigm. If we open our mind (thoughts) to the logic of another paradigm, then we can see a broader realm of truth.
Let me use an example of playing cards...a 52 card deck. That constitutes a paradigm of a certain sequences of colors and denotations on the cards. A magician uses this paradigm to demostrate what your mind thinks is impossible. Your mind is fixed on the 52 card paradigm which allows him to "trick" you. The magician knows the truth. He is using an altered deck of cards which is another paradigm. The magician has more "truth" because he has opened his mind to both paradigms.
Science and religion are logical paradigms. One can be against the other, or both can be combined and more truth is revealed.
Me personally, I have studied science, I work in a scientific field, I have studied Chritianity as well as many other religions, and I have studied most of the denomentional divisions within Chritianity. And I also love history. From all of this, I have expanded my logical paradigm base, and from all of this, my thoughts and reasoning have led me to my current state of "truth" in my life.
Now that's my philosophy 101 lesson for the day.
I'm not entirely sold on light 'carrying' energy, but that may be due to a lack of understand about light on my behalf. My question is, what is energy? I was under the impression energy was both physical and material.
For the most part you are correct. However, this is all a "matter" of definition. Most energy transfer involves two material sources of energy. Howerver light acts like a wave and it acts like a particle with no mass. All of this violates the logical paradigm of matter within science, so a nerwparadigm (quantum mechanics) must be constructed to partially explain all of this. But ther are flaws in these logics as well.
Light now has momentum without mass by just changing the definition of momentum. Do you see how easy this is? If our paradigm logically blows up, let's just change the logic. This is the underlying process of science. However, my paradigm the Bible doesn't change. In fact, I am commanded not to mess with God's word. It is fixed.
Now I understand that that axiom is difficult for materialists to deal with. They generally prefer the constant change offerred by science. But in reality it is a constant change of the logic. The logic doesn't change in my axiom. Therefore, I can always test the logic. It it fails, then I would drop it. However, I haven't found a scientific or religious test that causes my axiom to fail yet. I have found countless many in science, so the logic gets changed over and over again. It is as simple as changing definitions as I showed you in an earlier post from Websters dictionary on "nature".
Sorry you may need to go over that again. I still can't tell the difference. If the curvature of space is what causes gravity I can definitely see it as both physical and material.
OK, it is difficult, so here's my try....
Gravity is physical (can be observed and measured), but is not material (isn't made up of substantive parts).
If gravity is caused by a curvature of space/time, have you ever thought about just what that means? Time is not material. Space is not material. Both are physical. So if gravity is caused by a space/time curvature then this non material thing is caused by two non-material things. Doesn't that now just blow away your mind (thoughts)?
Also, have you ever considered the paradox of the BBT? The theory clearly states that time did not exist before the beginning of the universe. Basically it also postulates that space didn't exist either. That's why there are infinities involved in the equations for gravity at the BB. What that means is that logically this cannot be. For me, in a different paradigm, that means that science is just discovering that even in a natural model "god-like" attributes must exist.
Still not convinced they are real, but being a materialist would certainly be getting in the way of understanding.
The part in bold is what concerns me. I just feel that a lot of what you think is in-material comes from not understanding how things work.
I agree to an extent. However, the fact remains that on the macro level, the more we learn about the universe, the larger and more complex it becomes. And on the micro, the smaller and more complex things get. So the fact remains, that the more we learn, the less we really know.
I think I'm starting to wrap my head around the differences in theory, but we've got a ways to go before you convince me it is how reality works.
If God is physical and not material...does that mean he obeys the laws of the universe? Is it physical or material things that would be effected by say, gravity?
Yes, and no. I will reword what I think you mean. We believe God is the creator of nature. He created and organized (designed) the laws of nature. As any lawmaker, God works within the laws He created, because they are "good" laws.
For instance, we believe that God caused the flood of Noah. That doesn't mean he "poofed" anything. No magic. That means God was involved in the "natural process" of the fountains of the deep bursting forth. These giant geisers caused sustantial techtonic activity, as well as rain, erosion, extinction, and a whole host of other things. God uses nature. Every miracle that God does has part of it that can be explained naturally.
The bigger question should be, why does nature have laws? Why do you have a mind? Why do you have thoughts? Why are you arguing with a computer screen with letters on it? Why do you believe that I even exist? There are a host of other natural explanations for the letters on your screen.(haven't you seen the Matrix?)
Just some things to ponder in your spare time.... Don