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Looking At The Evidence


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#1 b00tleg

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 05:56 PM

I'm curious to understand what evidence convinces a creationist of their beliefs. If we restrict evidence to what is detectable, measurable, testable, repeatable and verifiable, and disallow the bible and evolution as "worldviews" from entering the picture, what is the evidence and the interpretation of that evidence that convinces creationists of say, a world wide flood, or humanity originating from only one human couple of a man and a woman.

And let me put this out there as well, this isn't a challenge, or a competition or anything of the like. Its an honest question on my part to answer my curiosity of creationists and how they arrive at their beliefs. This question is open to everyone however, not just creationists, evolutionists are invited to participate and everyone else. My only criteria is disallowing the bible and evolution as evidence and/or philosophies.

#2 ikester7579

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 11:05 PM

I tried this once and found out it will end up just like every other thread.

One side does not accept any evidence, and has the say so which evidence is acceptable, but does not want creation to make headway. So all is rejected so it never will.

So what happens is that the creationist will work hard in this thread to try and prove their position, while those who have absolute power to reject everything will do just that. Then as the thread moves on and this is made clear as it is smeared in our faces that we have no say so. People get mad, thread gets closed.

I'd be happy if a thread like this could move forward, but every attempt I've seen turns out the same with the frustration being on the creationist side. And the creationist doing all the work while the evolutionists just pick off stuff because of their "absolute power" in science. One cannot change a group that is already convinced that something is true and is an implied absolute. And because of that, has declared the winner, and has also declared every other opposing idea the loser. In which no other idea is even allowed to exist in any shape or form.

To make a thread like this work, you would have to set some thread rules so that it would go into the direction you wish. Being the original poster of thread, you can do this as long as the intentions of such rules are also listed. you could use this thread as a test thread to see what kind of rules are needed. Then start another with those rules and see what happens.

#3 performedge

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 08:53 AM

I tried this once and found out it will end up just like every other thread.

One side does not accept any evidence, and has the say so which evidence is acceptable, but does not want creation to make headway. So all is rejected so it never will.

So what happens is that the creationist will work hard in this thread to try and prove their position, while those who have absolute power to reject everything will do just that. Then as the thread moves on and this is made clear as it is smeared in our faces that we have no say so. People get mad, thread gets closed.

I'd be happy if a thread like this could move forward, but every attempt I've seen turns out the same with the frustration being on the creationist side. And the creationist doing all the work while the evolutionists just pick off stuff because of their "absolute power" in science. One cannot change a group that is already convinced that something is true and is an implied absolute. And because of that, has declared the winner, and has also declared every other opposing idea the loser. In which no other idea is even allowed to exist in any shape or form.

To make a thread like this work, you would have to set some thread rules so that it would go into the direction you wish. Being the original poster of thread, you can do this as long as the intentions of such rules are also listed. you could use this thread as a test thread to see what kind of rules are needed. Then start another with those rules and see what happens.

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Thanks for that admonition Ikester. You should archive this response to a call for evidence from one of our "scientific" friends.

Once they define evidence and the rules, it is usually pretty easy to work with them, and the thead will end qickly. With no rules or definition it is just clap trap ad infinity.

Don

#4 b00tleg

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:10 PM

I tried this once and found out it will end up just like every other thread.

One side does not accept any evidence, and has the say so which evidence is acceptable, but does not want creation to make headway. So all is rejected so it never will.

So what happens is that the creationist will work hard in this thread to try and prove their position, while those who have absolute power to reject everything will do just that. Then as the thread moves on and this is made clear as it is smeared in our faces that we have no say so. People get mad, thread gets closed.

I'd be happy if a thread like this could move forward, but every attempt I've seen turns out the same with the frustration being on the creationist side. And the creationist doing all the work while the evolutionists just pick off stuff because of their "absolute power" in science. One cannot change a group that is already convinced that something is true and is an implied absolute. And because of that, has declared the winner, and has also declared every other opposing idea the loser. In which no other idea is even allowed to exist in any shape or form.

To make a thread like this work, you would have to set some thread rules so that it would go into the direction you wish. Being the original poster of thread, you can do this as long as the intentions of such rules are also listed. you could use this thread as a test thread to see what kind of rules are needed. Then start another with those rules and see what happens.

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I'm open to suggestions regarding the rules but I think they should be as simple as possible. I thought of a third rule that may help address some of your concerns ikester.

1. Evolution and the Bible are disallowed as evidence for this thread. They can be referred to for information, but not evidence.
2. Anything presented as evidence must be detectable, measurable, testable, repeatable and verifiable.
3. Everyone who participates must agree to disagree at the end.

The Topic: What convinced you of our beliefs?

How does this sound?




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