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What Designed The Designer?


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#201 Ron

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 10:25 AM

Hey I have a quick question.

It reguards the Genesis account of Creation.  In it God waits until a later 'day' to create the heavens correct?  So doesn't that mean that God was in the 'physical universe'? 

If the answer is yes, then that would mean the the universe has always been eternal. 

If God is eternal, because the bible doesn't say that he had a beginning, then the universe where he resided prior to creating the heavens would also had to have been eternal.

Where else would have God 'lived'?

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I know you may not like this answer Java (I said may), but, according to Genesis One; God created the universe and the Earth in verse one (some may argue that it doesn’t say God created the Earth in verse one, but that it just was… What ever), and that He created the stars (or populated the rest of the universe) in verse 14. So, no, you would be incorrect. And no, our universe isn’t eternal.

God is eternal, and the realm He lives in is an answer we will have better information when we’re “face to face”. In as far as God’s ability to move in this universe; if God can create this universe, logically He can move about in this universe. Where’s the problem in that?

#202 Javabean

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 04:48 PM

I know you may not like this answer Java (I said may), but, according to Genesis One; God created the universe and the Earth in verse one (some may argue that it doesn’t say God created the Earth in verse one, but that it just was… What ever), and that He created the stars (or populated the rest of the universe) in verse 14. So, no, you would be incorrect. And no, our universe isn’t eternal.

God is eternal, and the realm He lives in is an answer we will have better information when we’re “face to face”. In as far as God’s ability to move in this universe; if God can create this universe, logically He can move about in this universe. Where’s the problem in that?

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Doh! :lol:

I pulled a Homer! lol thanks for some reason I thought the light was first. Hey wait a minute...

If God created the heavens and the Earth first, then where did he reside before then?

It would have to have been a realm of some sort right?

#203 Loungehead

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:03 PM

Doh!  :lol:

I pulled a Homer! lol thanks for some reason I thought the light was first.  Hey wait a minute...

If God created the heavens and the Earth first, then where did he reside before then?

It would have to have been a realm of some sort right?

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"So he did the light.. he invited it... which means... he created the Heaven and the Earth in the dark!!!" - Ricky Gervais

Ricky tells us it how it is...
E_EXqdJ4L7I

#204 Ron

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 05:09 PM

Doh!  :lol:

I pulled a Homer! lol thanks for some reason I thought the light was first.  Hey wait a minute...

If God created the heavens and the Earth first, then where did he reside before then?

It would have to have been a realm of some sort right?

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No Java, God said He provided light. And where He resides, as far as we know, is where He has always resided. And, just as He can move in this realm, He can move in that one as well.

#205 larrywj2

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:10 AM

Doh!  :lol:

I pulled a Homer! lol thanks for some reason I thought the light was first.  Hey wait a minute...

If God created the heavens and the Earth first, then where did he reside before then?

It would have to have been a realm of some sort right?

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View it like an ant farm. Ask one of the ants to explain what is outside the glass. Can't be done. We can't explain what we have no access too. I will hazard this gues; it must be big

#206 Ron

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:37 AM

View it like an ant farm.  Ask one of the ants to explain what is outside the glass.  Can't be done.  We can't explain what we have no access too.  I will hazard this gues; it must be big

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Some won't accept the ant analogy Larry. Though it does seem applicable.

#207 larrywj2

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 04:28 AM

Some won't accept the ant analogy Larry. Though it does seem applicable.

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Good morning Ron. I know it is oversimplifying, but the principle is reasonable. Whatever (God, Quantum mechanics, Muliple universes, etc.) the universe is "contained" within, we can't get a good look at it until we can breach the "containment", whether it be spiritual, metaphysical, or some other (___)al that we don't even have an understanding of yet.

The laws of this universe are set. They are because of some organizing factor. This factor can only organize from beyond the organized, therefore there is something beyond. And that is the most we can say until we get beyond.

Unless something from beyond comes here to explain, but that would never happen. Why would anything from beyond be concerned with us? ;) :rolleyes: B) :lol:

#208 Javabean

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 06:54 AM

View it like an ant farm.  Ask one of the ants to explain what is outside the glass.  Can't be done.  We can't explain what we have no access too.  I will hazard this gues; it must be big

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Hi Larry!

I get the analogy of the ant farm. to the ant there is nothing outside the ant farm, except for what-ever provides the food. But I think this even still brings up another question that we don't have answers to.

Such as does this 'outside the ant farm' have a beginning? or has this place been eternal?

I think we are also digging into an area of thought that the Bible doesn't support. God moved upon creation, it doesn't say where he came from does it?

#209 larrywj2

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 07:10 AM

Hi Larry!

I get the analogy of the ant farm.  to the ant there is nothing outside the ant farm, except for what-ever provides the food.  But I think this even still brings up another question that we don't have answers to.

Such as does this 'outside the ant farm' have a beginning?  or has this place been eternal?

I think we are also digging into an area of thought that the Bible doesn't support.  God moved upon creation, it doesn't say where he came from does it?

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Hello Java,
The Biblcal answer is not one that is given directly but given by reference. One such is God's quote "I am that I am". Lost in translation is theat this is a claim to be simply be He is. He does not have a point of creation, He just is. My appologies for the "God did it", but that really is as far as I have any ability to reason. I'll find out one day and I hope you are there too.

The answer is the same with or without God. There is something beyond our understanding and observation.

#210 Ron

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 10:03 AM

Hi Larry!

I get the analogy of the ant farm.  to the ant there is nothing outside the ant farm, except for what-ever provides the food.  But I think this even still brings up another question that we don't have answers to.

Such as does this 'outside the ant farm' have a beginning?  or has this place been eternal?

I think we are also digging into an area of thought that the Bible doesn't support.  God moved upon creation, it doesn't say where he came from does it?

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Sure it does (whether you choose to believe it or not). The Bible says He "Always has been". Hence “I Am the I AM” or the “Alpha and Omega”. That’s literally what these terms mean Java.

#211 Ron

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 10:13 AM

"So he did the light.. he invited it... which means... he created the Heaven and the Earth in the dark!!!"  - Ricky Gervais

Ricky tells us it how it is...
E_EXqdJ4L7I

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Negative Lounge, regardless of Ricky Gervais' comments (and satirical comedy shtick), God had plenty of light; He just focused light on the Earth (According to Genesis 1:1-3) at that point.

#212 Loungehead

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 11:03 AM

I know it is oversimplifying, but the principle is reasonable.  Whatever (God, Quantum mechanics, Muliple universes, etc.) the universe is "contained" within, we can't get a good look at it until we can breach the "containment", whether it be spiritual, metaphysical, or some other (___)al that we don't even have an understanding of yet.

Hi Larry,

I get what you are saying, but I disagree. I think the only thing that gets breached is our beliefs about containment. For me, outside the box, is actually inside the box. I know that wil sound counter-intuitive, but think of it like this:

If what is "outside" the box interacts with what is inside the box, then there is a causal relationship. For example, quantum physics is outside the box of classical physics, but quantum physics does interact and impact on the classical world. Although we as humans cannot breach the classical world to directly see the quantum world, we can view the quantum world by its interaction in the classical world (think nuclear explosions or computer hardware). In this way quantum physics is not outside the box of classical physics, rather we need to think about the box different in order to udnerstand the relationship.

The laws of this universe are set. 

We only know they are set in this part of the universe we occupy. Even within the universe things might be different.

Look forward to your thoughts on the matter.




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