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Is God An Atheist?


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#21 Guest_Alcatraz_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 01:43 AM

Even Alcatraz reconized this was probably someone making a joke.


Hey!!

What do you mean, "Even Alcatraz...."

:)

#22 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 02:39 AM

I don't think they are making serious errors in judgment, or serious mistakes. I believe they know exactly what they are doing. They are doing it on purpose.

Dave

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On that I concure

#23 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 02:40 AM

Hey!!

What do you mean, "Even Alcatraz...."

:)

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:lol:

#24 Guest_Alcatraz_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:06 AM

... Atheist who are "Bible scoffers" (hate God) love to ask questions about God or the Bible that cannot be answered because it makes them feel superior...


I think that an important point needs to be made here. In the quote above, the part which I have highlighted, whilst it may be true that some Athiests are Bible scoffers, this does not mean that they 'hate God'.

The may dislike whatever the religion stands for or the concept of a diety, but, how can one hate something in which they do not believe?

#25 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:18 AM

I think that an important point needs to be made here. In the quote above, the part which I have highlighted, whilst it may be true that some Athiests are Bible scoffers, this does not mean that they 'hate God'.

The may dislike whatever the religion stands for or the concept of a diety, but, how can one hate something in which they do not believe?

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Ah, but that is the crux of the argument isn't it? According to the Bible, the atheist knows God IS (or rather, that there is a “God” according to God), they just refuse to acknowledge Him. Therefore, it’s not that the atheist doesn't believe in God (Biblically), it’s more a matter that the atheist (in this case a misnomer then) is just denying the truth of God. Which then, in fact, makes the atheist a Bible scoffer!

Please see post 11, as it is what I am reffering to.

#26 Guest_Anghellik9_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:49 AM

Ah, but that is the crux of the argument isn't it? According to the Bible, the atheist knows God IS (or rather, that there is a “God” according to God), they just refuse to acknowledge Him. Therefore, it’s not that the atheist doesn't believe in God (Biblically), it’s more a matter that the atheist (in this case a misnomer then) is just denying the truth of God. Which then, in fact, makes the atheist a Bible scoffer!

Please see post 11, as it is what I am reffering to.

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Sounds kinda circular to me. It's saying "You say you don't believe in God, but you actually ignore him out of hate, because the bible tells me so." Do you actually believe this? I do not believe in God, nor the Bible. The Bible saying that there are no atheists, and that atheists secretly do believe in God doesn't make it so.

#27 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:21 AM

Sounds kinda circular to me. It's saying "You say you don't believe in God, but you actually ignore him out of hate, because the bible tells me so." Do you actually believe this? I do not believe in God, nor the Bible. The Bible saying that there are no atheists, and that atheists secretly do believe in God doesn't make it so.

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It’s no more circular than the child who doesn’t like broccoli, and therefore rebels against his parents so he doesn’t have to eat it because he doesn't like broccoli in his universe. Or the insatiable need to have falsify-ability as a test for truth or facts. And although you have the concept wrong, you are on the right track. The fact is, the atheist see all the evidence, but chooses to deny its reality, because it hurts his sensibilities.

It is circular, but it is circular on that part of the atheist. You see, the atheist is no longer an atheist. He has become more of an agnostic (I believe the term is now called a soft atheist) because of the reality of non-explain-ability of atheism. “I cannot disprove God, therefore he does not exist!”. We are hard pressed to find an atheist who will say “There is no God”. Or one who can defend such an assertion anyway. What we get more of now is the whole atheistic non-falsify-ability doctrine.

#28 Guest_Alcatraz_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:26 AM

Ah, but that is the crux of the argument isn't it? According to the Bible, the atheist knows God IS (or rather, that there is a “God” according to God), they just refuse to acknowledge Him. Therefore, it’s not that the atheist doesn't believe in God (Biblically), it’s more a matter that the atheist (in this case a misnomer then) is just denying the truth of God. Which then, in fact, makes the atheist a Bible scoffer!

Please see post 11, as it is what I am reffering to.

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How can one acknowledge or refuse to acknowledge something in which they don't believe?

In the part which I have highlighted of your quote, it appears that you are saying that Athiests want to believe in God, but are choosing not to (believe in God).

Is that right?

That may be the Christian perspective, but as Athiests don't believe in any diety, let alone the Christian concept of God, the words of the Bible are moot from an Athiest perspective.

One cannot hate that in which one doesn't believe.

I can say that I have a strong dislike for Fox News, Dried Fruit, Bigots and Clowns because they are real tangible things which I know to exist.

I cannot say that I hate ghosts, or the sidhe, because I know that they don't exist, and it is not logical to say that one can hate something in which they don't believe.

It just doesn't make sense.

#29 Guest_Alcatraz_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:33 AM

Also, an Agnostic is nothing like an Athiest.

An Agnsotic is one who is willing to be honest and say that whilst the existence of God (or any other diety) cannot be proven, nor can it be disproven either.

Which I why I class myself as Agnostic over Athiest, although I do veer towards the Athiest more than the Theistic end of the spectrum.

#30 Guest_Anghellik9_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:43 AM

How can one acknowledge or refuse to acknowledge something in which they don't believe?

In the part which I have highlighted of your quote, it appears that you are saying that  Athiests want to believe in God, but are choosing not to (believe in God).

Is that right?

That may be the Christian perspective, but as Athiests don't believe in any diety, let alone the Christian concept of God, the words of the Bible are moot from an Athiest perspective.

One cannot hate that in which one doesn't believe.

I can say that I have a strong dislike for Fox News, Dried Fruit, Bigots and Clowns because they are real tangible things which I know to exist.

I cannot say that I hate ghosts, or the sidhe, because I know that they don't exist, and it is not logical to say that one can hate something in which they don't believe.

It just doesn't make sense.

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THAT is what I was trying to get at. The words failed me somehow.

#31 Javabean

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 11:04 AM

I like how this thread has progressed it made for a fun read.

Now I might be wrong in my interpretation of this but I believe the bible says that God will not have any other god before him.

Does this refer to the existence of other actual gods that exist, or is this commonly read as putting your worship towards things that are not god?

If it refers to other divine beings then god cannot be an Atheist because he refers to other divine beings such as himself.

#32 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 11:44 AM

Also, an Agnostic is nothing like an Athiest.

An Agnsotic is one who is willing to be honest and say that whilst the existence of God (or any other diety) cannot be proven, nor can it be disproven either.

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That would be incorrect Alcatraz. But, it would be the classic interpretation, and how I would have defined it. But those tricksey new-atheists are making themselves hard to define on purpose ;)

Atheism has gotten so confusing for the atheist (themselves) that some of them are actually hiding from their atheism in an agnostic costume!

Soft atheisim:

http://richardcarrie...r-agnostic.html

http://bedejournal.b...-hard-core.html

http://www.samharris...alist-atheists/

http://blog.beliefne...-new-softc.html

Agnosticism… The new atheists!!!

#33 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 11:46 AM

How can one acknowledge or refuse to acknowledge something in which they don't believe?

In the part which I have highlighted of your quote, it appears that you are saying that  Athiests want to believe in God, but are choosing not to (believe in God).

Is that right?

That may be the Christian perspective, but as Athiests don't believe in any diety, let alone the Christian concept of God, the words of the Bible are moot from an Athiest perspective.

One cannot hate that in which one doesn't believe.

I can say that I have a strong dislike for Fox News, Dried Fruit, Bigots and Clowns because they are real tangible things which I know to exist.

I cannot say that I hate ghosts, or the sidhe, because I know that they don't exist, and it is not logical to say that one can hate something in which they don't believe.

It just doesn't make sense.

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All in one word.... Denial! Again, you need to read within the context of my post (#11)

#34 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 11:50 AM

I like how this thread has progressed it made for a fun read. 

Now I might be wrong in my interpretation of this but I believe the bible says that God will not have any other god before him.

Does this refer to the existence of other actual gods that exist, or is this commonly read as putting your worship towards things that are not god?

If it refers to other divine beings then god cannot be an Atheist because he refers to other divine beings such as himself.

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You are correct... You are "wrong in your interpretation". The "other gods" God is referring to, are the man-made idols (i.e. the golden calf in Exodus). Remember, Satan is still attempting to supplant God. But you are more correct in your question “is this commonly read as putting your worship towards things that are not god?”…

#35 jason78

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 01:38 PM

You are correct... You are "wrong in your interpretation". The "other gods" God is referring to, are the man-made idols (i.e. the golden calf in Exodus). Remember, Satan is still attempting to supplant God. But you are more correct in your question “is this commonly read as putting your worship towards things that are not god?”…

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The Bible says "other gods" Ron. If it means man-made idols, why does it not say man-made idols?

#36 Ron

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 01:40 PM

The Bible says "other gods" Ron.  If it means man-made idols, why does it not say man-made idols?

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Before you jump to your man-made conclusions jason, you may want to do a little reading and keep this in context.




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