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#101 Scanman

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 04:12 PM

Again, you are assuming the fossil record is chronological. This evidence is against it.
Second of all, you are ignoring all of those but one. What's up with that?

Third of all,
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what

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I understand the initial reaction that it looks like a 'stegosaur'...but if you really try and compare...

The head is too big
No spikes on the tail
The plates are not the same shape

The large ears are a giveaway

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Notice that the serpent which acts as a frame has the same 'plates'.

The platelike flame/petal images are representative of holiness

This is clearly a pig....maybe a 'holy' pig.

Peace

#102 Cata

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 05:12 PM

The tail is too long to be a pig's.
Besides, you are ignoring all of the others. So what if one of them seems wrong? The evidence is still overwhelming.

In fact, I'm curious to see your response for this one:
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#103 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 06:42 AM

The tail is too long to be a pig's.
Besides, you are ignoring all of the others. So what if one of them seems wrong? The evidence is still overwhelming.

In fact, I'm curious to see your response for this one:
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My comment is based solely on the Ta Prohm image.

I will look into the other images later.

Peace

#104 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 07:00 AM

(I just cut and pasted a post I created a while ago from another thread)

Finding a rabbit  from the Cambrian strata is saying that finding fossils out of sync would disproved evolution. Fossils have been characterized for over a 150 million years.  So the question is somewhat ad hoc believing that we pretty much know what we are going to find.  The question is disingenuous on many levels:

1.  We have found many credible fossils out of phase:  For example

Evolution also predicts that live birth would not be found below the mid-Jurassic

Live birth below Jurrassic

second link

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Evolution predicts that no flowering plant will ever be found below the Cretaceous

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Protoavis is probably the most controversial of the fossil birds.

Protoavis is probably the most controversial of the fossil birds. Chatterjee (1991) believes it to be a Triassic bird, older than Archaeopteryx. Only fragments have been found, but its discoverer considers it to have many features associated with flight, for example a keel-like sternum indicating that it would have been a better flyer than Archaeopteryx. Its skull was lightly built and pneumatised, with a temporal region similar to modern birds. It also had a relatively large brain with an avian brain architecture similar to modern birds with neurosensory specialisations associated with balance, coordination, flight, agility and high metabolic activity. Claw morphology suggests that Protoavis could climb trees, yet the development of a supracoracoideus (the principal muscles that lift the wing) pulley indicates that it was able to fly.

2. The question is even being debated by atheist now.  I clear cut test would not be debated this late in the game.
richard dawkins web site
3. Many fossils are found out of phase and are called hoaxes. In other words, if does not support evolution it is not really evidence. Because there is no evidence that can go outside the established rules of how evolution must work. To do is  just a fluke and therefore should "always" be ignored. You can not fail a test were the rules are that failure is not allowed.  So a rabbit found in Cambrian it would be called a hoax.

4. Another trick is to put fossils in we don’t know what to do with into a category called transitional.  They have no clue what it transitioned from or what it transitioned into other than it makes the resume look better.

To sum it up, we find out of phase fossil all the time that Darwinian evolution does not predict out of phase fossils when they appear.  Rather they evolutionary theory changes ad hoc to adapt to the evidence.  If find a poodle from the Permian strata, evolution theory would just change the time line and move on.  This after the fact accountability makes evolution impossible to disprove.

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It seems that there is one point that is being left out here...

The idea of parallel paths of evolution.

There are no hard fast rules that creatures in different locations, whether plant or animal, cannot find alternativie paths of evolution.

In fact, you would expect it.

Many of these 'predictions' are based on the known fossil record. When new fossils are uncovered, this adds more information to the fossil record and predictions are modified.

Peace

#105 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 07:45 AM

Hi Javabean,

The word dinosaur (as you'd know) did not exit until the 1840s.  Descriptions however are in many cultures throughout the world and they were often referred to as "dragons":

I suggest checking out this link as an example (Scroll down to "dragon legends" if you're in a hurry and just want a few ancient descriptions):

http://www.apologeti...g/articles/2704

I believe that ancient artifacts depicting such creatures have also been shown on this forum by Ikester a few times also. I found this video which I thought was pretty good, but excuse the loss of clarity with some of it:

BtDbXN0RILE&hl=en_US&fs=1

Here too is a link that contains pictures and information of ancient artifacts that appear to depict creatures that resemble dinosaurs/dragons. This will help if you weren't able to view them on the video as clearly.

http://www.genesispa...ent/ancient.htm

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The Acambaro dinosaurs are a hoax. A local farmer was paid for every figurine he could 'dig' up...eventually he came up with 32,000 figurines.

The Peruvian Ica stones are a hoax. The same was true... a man received a stone for his birthday with a picture of what he thought was an ancient fish...he asked and paid for more stones and supposedly was led to a tomb where even more stones were found. Microphotgraphs revealed the carvings to be modern and the presence of modern paints and abrasives were discovered.

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How would ancient men have depicted the giant anteater?

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Modern men are not the first humans to come across dinosaur bones, or even other exotic bones not known to them.

When the ancient Greeks came across elephant skulls, they misinterpreted the large nasal opening as an eye socket and came up with a 'cyclops' in their story telling.

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If an ancient were to come across large sauropod bones, it would not be to difficult for them to envision the type of creature that they came from.

Peace

#106 Cata

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 10:11 AM

I see that you've ignored my last post. I expected no better from an evolutionist anyway than to ignore an argument that they can't answer.

#107 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 10:14 AM

I see that you've ignored my last post. I expected no better from an evolutionist anyway than to ignore an argument that they can't answer.

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I told you I would respond to it later...patience.

Peace

#108 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 10:42 AM

Great find.
I'm guessing no more evolutionists are going to post in this topic from now on.

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Where is a source for these images other then genesispark?

Specifically I would like the source for the image of the dinosaur surrounded by the natives.

Peace

#109 Guest_tharock220_*

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 12:25 PM

Thanks a lot Cata, you beat me to that one!  <_<
Looks like Rocky's the one who's "seeing what he want's to see in those pictures".  I've never seen a pig with a tail like that, or plates along its back and tail :(

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Oddly enough I've never seen a dinosaur that looks like that either. It's body doesn't even look the least bit reptilian. Cata, if that's a dinosaur, a creationist needs to explain exactly what kind it is. Still waiting on an answer as to why ape fossils and dino fossils have yet to be found together.

#110 Cata

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 12:55 PM

Still waiting on an answer as to why ape fossils and dino fossils have yet to be found together.

Already answered you.

Because this proves the fossil record is not chronological. You're basically saying that this cannot prove the fossil record wrong because the fossil record is right.


Stop being ignorant, and stop wasting my time.


Where is a source for these images other then genesispark?

Specifically I would like the source for the image of the dinosaur surrounded by the natives.

There are stories of a plesiosaur-like creature seen in Queensland, Australia. Both aboriginal peoples around Lake Galilee and tribes farther up to the north tell of a long-necked animal with a large body and flippers. "Elders of the Kuku Yalanji aboriginal tribe of Far North Queensland, Australia, relate stories of Yarru (or Yarrba), a creature which used to inhabit rain forest water holes. The painting (left) depicts a creature with features remarkably similar to a plesiosaur. It even shows an outline of the gastro-intestinal tract, indicating that these animals had been hunted and butchered." (CEN Technical Journal, Vol.12, No. 3, 1998, p. 345.)


Maybe you could have read what Genesis Park actually said about the picture first?
They cited their source.

#111 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:04 PM

Maybe you could have read what Genesis Park actually said about the picture first?
They cited their source.


I was all over the genesispark site and could not find the image or the reference.
Can you post the link?

Thanks

Peace

#112 Cata

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:11 PM

I was all over the genesispark site and could not find the image or the reference.
Can you post the link?

Thanks

Peace

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First of all, I quoted it. Did you even read my post or just the last sentence?

If you need a picture, here:
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#113 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:15 PM

First of all, I quoted it. Did you even read my post or just the last sentence?

If you need a picture, here:
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I'm not sure what you are talking about.
The first two comments are not mine.

I still need a link.

Thanks

Peace

#114 Guest_tharock220_*

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:20 PM

Already answered you.
Stop being ignorant, and stop wasting my time.

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Lol, don't get mad at me because you posted a pig and called it a dinosaur.

You're saying pictures prove the fossil record wrong. Well gee whiz, why can't I say the fossil record proves the pictures wrong.

#115 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:42 PM

My comment is based solely on the Ta Prohm image.

I will look into the other images later.

Peace

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Article Link

An illustration claimed to be recent aboriginal art depicts a plesiosaur, but it cannot be demonstrated as authentic (Fig 5). The typical medium of aboriginal art is rock - the plesiosaur art is not, plus the artwork bears striking similarity with existing modern artwork depicting plesiosaurs and is very different from authentic aboriginal artwork. The depiction is also anatomically incorrect - the necks of plesiosaurs are now known to have been held-straight and rigid, they were not extremely flexible as depicted. Even if the artwork was genuine, it is perfectly possible that the illustration is based on fossil evidence - plesiosaur fossil remains are known from Australia.


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Fig 5. Purported aboriginal art - not authenticated.

Dinosaur hoax website

Yarru and Yarrba (actually spelled "Yarrabah") are in reality names of a river in Victoria, Australia and an Aboriginal Community in Queensland, Australia. What is claim on Woetzel's site is a direct fabrication of the Legend of the Rainbow Serpent, which tells about a large, dangerous snake that lives in waterholes and associates with rainbows, water, rain, lakes, and rivers.


My conclusion is that this is a hoax until you prove otherwise.

Peace

#116 M T RIVERS

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:56 PM

"why ape fossils and dino fossils have yet to be found together.

I keep seeing this question and I am not sure what the point is. None the less I can think of several reasons why you might not find these 2 fosils together.
Maybe they never lived in the same location. Maybe because they have more dextarity and a good grip the apes might survive longer in a massive flood and be caried to a different location. The simple fact that fossilisation is not common could be another reason. When things die they usually become food not fossils. More importantly, what difference would it make if they were found together. Someone could think of reasons they were together as easily.

#117 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 02:02 PM

I keep seeing this question and I am not sure what the point is. None the less I can think of several reasons why you might not find these 2 fosils together.
Maybe they never lived in the same location.  Maybe because they have more dextarity and a good grip the apes might survive longer in a massive flood and be caried to a different location. The simple fact that fossilisation is not common could be another reason.  When things die they usually become food not fossils. More importantly, what difference would it make if they were found together. Someone could think of reasons they were together as easily.

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It is not about being located next to each other...

...it is about the geological strata.

You will never find primate fossils below the Cretaceous.

Peace

#118 Cata

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 03:33 PM

Lol, don't get mad at me because you posted a pig and called it a dinosaur.


Typical, resorting to ad hominem.

You're saying pictures prove the fossil record wrong. Well gee whiz, why can't I say the fossil record proves the pictures wrong.


It's circular reasoning to say "The pictures are wrong because the thing proven wrong is right."


Article Link
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Fig 5. Purported aboriginal art - not authenticated.

Dinosaur hoax website
My conclusion is that this is a hoax until you prove otherwise.

Peace

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Since I can't find the journal it was from, I can't prove it, at least now.
I guess you can ignore it if you really aren't willing to change your mind. There's still others.

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Compare it to:
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The spikes on the tail are probably so thin because teracotta isn't the strongest material to build with. The legs are probably so close to the ground since they would break easily unless they were huge.
Other than those two things, it looks exactly like a stegosaurus.
It obviously looks old, but I can't find anything on google saying it is or isn't a hoax.

#119 Ron

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 03:44 PM

Oddly enough I've never seen a dinosaur that looks like that either. 

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So, you've seen a dinosaur?

#120 Scanman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 04:16 PM

Typical, resorting to ad hominem.
It's circular reasoning to say "The pictures are wrong because the thing proven wrong is right."
Since I can't find the journal it was from, I can't prove it, at least now.
I guess you can ignore it if you really aren't willing to change your mind. There's still others.

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Compare it to:
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The spikes on the tail are probably so thin because teracotta isn't the strongest material to build with. The legs are probably so close to the ground since they would break easily unless they were huge.
Other than those two things, it looks exactly like a stegosaurus.
It obviously looks old, but I can't find anything on google saying it is or isn't a hoax.

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Where was it found, what testing has been done on it?
These are all important questions.

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He's looking at you...

Peace




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