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How Will God Judge Mentally Ill People?


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#1 skwayred

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 06:04 PM

I've recently read an article about a 7 year-old schizophrenic and ever since, my heart has been broken for this kid. When she's normal, she knows that hurting people is bad but when her illness takes over her, she hurts other people and herself. Why does God allow it? And how will God judge this kid (especially when she grows up) if 95% of the time, she's in her delusional state (as stated in the news)?

#2 skwayred

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 06:06 PM

Ok, I think this should be moved to Bible Q&A. Sorry, I posted on the wrong forum.

#3 Javabean

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 06:56 PM

Ok, I think this should be moved to Bible Q&A. Sorry, I posted on the wrong forum.

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Unfortunately it probably is.

To answer your question though... If God was fair he would not punish the child for behavior that was out of her control.

But this is very similar to a question I had a while ago that no one ventured to answer. It involved the soul, the mind and the brain.

Christians like to believe that the mind/soul control the body, but I'm more for the brain/mind, with the mind being a feature of the brain.

The question ultimately comes down to this. If the soul has no control over the brains action, then how is it fair to punish the 'entity' with eternal burning for deeds it has no control over?

This child is a perfect example of one such situation. Brain injuries are another example where a person's personality completely changes do to the damage to the brain.

Another question would be at what point does God stop forgiving for chemical imbalances/under-developed sections of the brain that make it difficult for a person to socialize in appropriate ways.

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 07:34 PM

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Knowledge is the key issue. One cannot know what evil is until one knows what good is. So if you are mentally ill, they do not have knowledge of good so when they do bad, it's not a sin. For how can a judge be a just judge and send someone to Hell when they did not even know what they were doing?

For a child it's the point they become self aware and know there is a decision to make and fully understand that decision.

Both conditions are referred to in the Bible as being of innocent blood.

deut 19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Abortion is considered shedding innocent blood.

2kings 21:16 Moreover Manasseh shed innocent blood very much, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another; beside his sin wherewith he made Judah to sin, in doing that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

2kings 24:4 And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the LORD would not pardon.

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:28 AM

I've recently read an article about a 7 year-old schizophrenic and ever since, my heart has been broken for this kid. When she's normal, she knows that hurting people is bad but when her illness takes over her, she hurts other people and herself. Why does God allow it? And how will God judge this kid (especially when she grows up) if 95% of the time, she's in her delusional state (as stated in the news)?

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I remember back in 2003 when Billy Graham came to San Diego for one of his Crusades. At the end a news reporter asked this question.

Reporter's question: "If there is a God, why does he allow pain and suffering ?"

Billy Graham's answer: "You know, I really don't know. But when I die and go to Heaven, that's the first thing I'm going to ask him."

Sadly, this was a totally irresponsible answer for someone who claims to have a knowledge of the bible, since the answer is right there at the beginning and themed throughout. Genesis chapter 3 has the original challenege made by Satan when decieving Eve. In fact his arguement is the same that Atheists parrot today. He resented having been given freewill and having limits put upon it. (Only in his own mind). Like today's atheism movement, we are told to widen out, broaden our horizons and keep an open mind. That was the meaning behind the tree called "Tree of the Knowlege of Good and Bad". It symbolically represented man's choice to decide for him/her selves what the standards for good and bad would be. In other words from that point forward human beings alienated from God would strike out on a course of independence and decide what would bring humans true happiness, fulfillment and purpose into their lives. So what was the result of Eve falling for the lie from Satan to broaden her horizons and consider another alternative ???????? Have humans benefitted ????? Hardly!

So is God responsible for all the flaws in humans that cause suffering and misery ??????? Here's what is recorded in Deuteronomy. Notice that whatever he does or accomplishes is said to be perfect or flawless. Even his creation of humans.

Deuteronomy 32:4 (New International Version)

4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
    and all his ways are just.
    A faithful God who does no wrong,
    upright and just is he.

New International Version (NIV)


Now notice where the fault really lies.

Deuteronomy 32:5 (Amplified Bible)

5 "They [Israel] have spoiled themselves. They are not sons to Him, and that is their blemish--a perverse and crooked generation!"


This of course was directed at Israel, but it illustrates that when human's were created there was no imperfect defect within their minds and hearts, and their genes. Animal genes were never effected by what Adam and Eve did, but they are unfortunately effected by the ignorance, stupidty, selfishness and greed of imperfect human actions. We can see this from the warp improper custodialship of our planet's environment. This issue of if God does have the Sovereign Right to require some limits or if mankind should have unrestricted freedom was presented in the opening two chapters of the book of Job. While Job was the main target orignally, Satan made one statement about all humans by questioning something about the nature of the created human. He claimed the very nature of any human's obedience and integrity towards God was shallow and based on conditions and under pressure he'd cave.

Job 2:4 (New Living Translation)

4 "Satan replied to the Lord, “Skin for skin! A man will give up everything he has to save his life."

New Living Translation (NLT)


This obviously was yet another lie. However today the majority of humankind have bought into the lie. Hence we have the world we live in. Atheistic evolutionsts insist that man is the ever evolving ever improving animal. The bible states that man had a perfect beginning and has degerated ever since. Given the conditions we observe and experience today and the constant and continuing insaneness of the way things politcally, economically, religiously and environmentally are spiraling downwards, I'd have to say the Bible is correct. The interesting thing about Satan's challenge is that it not only was directed at human's but also other intelligent creation like Angels. This is show that the acussations were made publically in heaven before God and all those assembled. Revelation shows that Satan, represented by that Dragon in chapter 12, figuratively drags his tails to take away a third of the stars (Angels) from heaven.


Last year I read something in the Los Angeles Times by a well known combative religious "Origin of the Species" Thumping Atheist, it was the infamous P.Z. Meyers. Here's the link to the online LA Times and I'll quote the pertinent points down in the second to the last paragraph.


Why is Charlotte Allen so mad at atheists?

"We go right to the central issue of whether there is a god or not. We're pretty certain that if there were an all-powerful being pulling the strings and shaping history for the benefit of human beings, the universe would look rather different than it does."



Interestingly enough he is right. If an almighty God who created the Universe and Earth we live on were pulling the strings the world would be alot different. However, almighty God is not doing so. Here are several things the Bible says about that.

1 John 5:19 (New Living Translation)

19 "We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one."

New Living Translation (NLT)



2 Corinthians 4:4 (New Living Translation)

4
"Satan, who is the god of this world
, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God."

New Living Translation (NLT)


Ephesians 2:2 (New Living Translation)

2 You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world.[a] He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

Footnotes:

1. Ephesians 2:2 Greek obeying the commander of the power of the air.




Jesus more than once called him "the ruler of this world".



John 12:31 (New Living Translation)

31 The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.

New Living Translation (NLT)



John 14:30 (New Living Translation)

30 “I don’t have much more time to talk to you, because the ruler of this world approaches. He has no power over me, . . . "




John 16:11 (New Living Translation)

11 Judgment will come because the ruler of this world has already been judged.
"




Then there was that occasion after Jesus was baptized when Satan tempted him with power and authority. Pay attention to why and how he would have been able to do this. Satan could never give Jesus something he did not possess.



Luke 4:5-7 (New Living Translation)

5 Then the devil took him up and revealed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 “I will give you the glory of these kingdoms and authority over them,” the devil said, “because they are mine to give to anyone I please. 7 I will give it all to you if you will worship me.”

New Living Translation (NLT)


So Satan has had a huge measure of control over this world's affairs to prove his case against God's right to rule. He's the guiding disuniting influence behind today's governments, though there may be rulers who are sincere, it's a lost cause as the News bares out each and every day.

Now finally as far as someone who is severely handicapped and not fully in control of their mental state. That is for God to judge who the person is. The bible tells us to work on the secret person of the heart. Unfortunately if we are not careful, we can see things through only a materialist approach to things by judging the outside. This is what caused Darwinian Social Engineering decades ago. We can trust God does the right thing. A handicapped person can to the best limits of there ability, though miniscule and not noticed by us, can in fact secretly be a decent human being acceptable by God. Here's what Peter said on the matter.

Acts 10:34-35 (New Living Translation)

The Gentiles Hear the Good News
34 "Then Peter replied, “I see very clearly that God shows no favoritism. 35 In every nation he accepts those who fear him and do what is right."

New Living Translation (NLT)


I'm sure this is lengthy, but we can count on God not holding a handicapped person as unrighteous just merely because of his/her handicap. :lol:

#6 Mr.Razorblades

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 05:52 AM

How would God then judge a child with Anencephaly?

#7 Guest_Eocene_*

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 08:06 AM

How would God then judge a child with Anencephaly?

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Unfortunately you are looking at things for materialist perspective. How would you judge them ?????? It's not about the physical defect, it's the person on the inside, the figurative heart of who the person is that counts. I don't read hearts, do you ????? Dump the materialist view and view people as human beings with feelings. Again I wouldn't fathom to put myself in that position of judging. No doubt they would be resurrected. Anything can be undone.

#8 Mr.Razorblades

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 08:20 AM

Unfortunately you are looking at things for materialist perspective. How would you judge them ?????? It's not about the physical defect, it's the person on the inside, the figurative heart of who the person is that counts. I don't read hearts, do you ????? Dump the materialist view and view people as human beings with feelings. Again I wouldn't fathom to put myself in that position of judging. No doubt they would be resurrected. Anything can be undone.

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Did you even look at what Anencephaly is? I don't judge, it's not my nature to do so. As for the person on the inside, in relation to Anencephaly there is NO inside. The child is born without a brain, they are pretty much just a shell of flesh and bone. So when this child dies very young, will he/she be with brain or soul, or what ever meta-physical aspects you retain, in heaven? As for reading hearts, do you believe that the heart does anything else other than pump blood?

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 09:01 AM

Did you even look at what Anencephaly is?  I don't judge, it's not my nature to do so.  As for the person on the inside, in relation to Anencephaly there is NO inside.  The child is born without a brain, they are pretty much just a shell of flesh and bone.  So when this child dies very young, will he/she be with brain or soul, or what ever meta-physical aspects you retain, in heaven?  As for reading hearts, do you believe that the heart does anything else other than pump blood?

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What's a Soul (nephesh)????????????????????????????????????????????????? ;)

DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE FIGURATIVE HEART ?????????????

It's figurative, not the literal heart !!! :lol: Dump the materialism and we'll get some where. Man I hate word games. That's how governments work.

Dump the rationalism philosophy for once and talk like a regular person and we'll get some where. :blink:

#10 Mr.Razorblades

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 09:10 AM

Explain to me how an individual born without a brain would be judged. I apologize about the heart statement as I missed the word 'figurative'.

I am talking rationally. I would like an explanation as to how your God would judge someone who practically does not exist at all.

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:58 PM

Explain to me how an individual born without a brain would be judged.  I apologize about the heart statement as I missed the word 'figurative'. 

I am talking rationally.  I would like an explanation as to how your God would judge someone who practically does not exist at all.

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No you're not talking rational, I know what it is and I know there's no brain so you tell me what's to judge anyway. The OP was hardly even touching on this type of circumstance. It would be the same circumstance of a seemingly healthy baby was still born. It never had life What's to judge ???????

You also didn't answer the other question, what do you mean by Soul ??????

What is it ???????? Define Soul using it's original Hebrew word meaning ??????

Here's a clue = Nephesh (and I don't want the cupcake version) :D


#12 ikester7579

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 08:57 PM

How would God then judge a child with Anencephaly?

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Did you not understand that I said it's knowledge of Christ (good) and the ability to understand it?

#13 ikester7579

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 08:59 PM

I can see this thread was started to cause trouble, so I'm closing it.




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