9 replies to this topic

[eximius]

This is my first actual post so be gentle.

You've probably had to face this before but I would enjoy some interaction please. Rather than cutting and pasting contradictions from other sites, I'll simply provide a relatively thorough link:

http://www.infidels....s.html#god_seen

How do you explain these kind of contradictions, if the bible is in fact the word of god? How do you choose which parts to 'go with' and which to discard or ignore? Some enlightenment (get it ) would be greatly appreciated.

[Ron]

This is my first actual post so be gentle.

You've probably had to face this before but I would enjoy some interaction please. Rather than cutting and pasting contradictions from other sites, I'll simply provide a relatively thorough link:

http://www.infidels....s.html#god_seen

How do you explain these kind of contradictions, if the bible is in fact the word of god? How do you choose which parts to 'go with' and which to discard or ignore? Some enlightenment (get it  ) would be greatly appreciated.

Which supposed contradictions are you wanting to talk about? You know, you can just post (in your own words) what ever problems you're having....

[ikester7579]

Since we get a lot of Bible scoffers in here, I have to ask: Why do you ask the question of contradictions, and what would be the effect or goal if we go to all the trouble to answer them for you to your satisfaction?

This type of thread requires a lot of effort on our part, and I find more often than not that when an atheist gets a list of questions from a anti-Christian site, they are doing it for entertainment (watch the Christian squirm to answer the contradictions). This is why such sites list those things because they are the go to for doing just that. Which brings me back to the question of what is your goal of asking, and listing the site instead of asking those questions yourself?

So if you want us to go to all the trouble addressing these contradictions. Then you are going to have to get more involved in the dialog instead of saying: Here, address these things off of another website.

So list each verse and tell us what you see as the contradictions and what you personally think about the contradiction instead of allowing a website to do all the talking for you.

[eximius]

I get you points and I definitely wasn't trying to get a laugh or "watch you squirm", I'm just genuinely curious of what you think about contradictions such as this:

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

How can the bible have such contradictory things in it, if it is in fact the word of god?

Or this contradiction about how Judas died:

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

Or this one describing god as war hungry and peaceful:

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

I'm not trying to be aggressive or force you to rethink etc. I'm just genuinely curious about how you explain these kinds of contradictions in the bible. Do you think that it's misinterpretation, or that in fact the bible does have errors r something else altogether?

Sorry again for the jump in sort of attitude in my first post, I was just tired and not thinking straight. I hope this is better.

[jason777]

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

No natural man can see him, because they are seperated from his mercy by their sins.

The Lords elect can see him because he does not hide his face from them.

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

The second verse is adding more information than the first. Either the rope broke or his head came off and his body fell and was smashed on the rocks below.

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

God is love, but his love is bound by a law. It's funny how criminals are the ones claiming that they are being picked on. LOL.

[eximius]

No natural man can see him, because they are seperated from his mercy by their sins.

The Lords elect can see him because he does not hide his face from them.
The second verse is adding more information than the first. Either the rope broke or his head came off and his body fell and was smashed on the rocks below.
God is love, but his love is bound by a law. It's funny how criminals are the ones claiming that they are being picked on. LOL.

But the text doesn't specify anything that you just said. You simply interpreted it like that. I interpret these verses as contradictions. There's no reason to suppose that your interpretation is any more correct than mine.

If this document was in fact the word of god, don't you think it would have been worded more clearly.

[Cata]

But the text doesn't specify anything that you just said. You simply interpreted it like that. I interpret these verses as contradictions. There's no reason to suppose that your interpretation is any more correct than mine.

If this document was in fact the word of god, don't you think it would have been worded more clearly.

Please stop wasting our time.

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

God showed himself to people numerous times in the Bible. However those were usually visions. I believe God can manifest himself into physical forms(Such as Jesus). So in said cases you are seeing a physical manifestation, not God himself.

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

Jason answered it perfectly. If you interpret it differently go ahead, because I see you are just another scoffer.

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

The president of the US has power over the army. Does that mean he can't be a man of peace?

You can be a man of war but still try to promote peace. War is unavoidable sometimes.

Also sorry but I had to post this.

http://media.gamerev...r-firepower.jpg

[eximius]

Please stop wasting our time.
God showed himself to people numerous times in the Bible. However those were usually visions. I believe God can manifest himself into physical forms(Such as Jesus). So in said cases you are seeing a physical manifestation, not God himself.
Jason answered it perfectly. If you interpret it differently go ahead, because I see you are just another scoffer.
The president of the US has power over the army. Does that mean he can't be a man of peace?

You can be a man of war but still try to promote peace. War is unavoidable sometimes.

Also sorry but I had to post this.

http://media.gamerev...r-firepower.jpg

How about answering my question/statement and not wasting my time.

So I'm "just another scoffer" after a few posts and questions asked in good faith.

And a man of war and peace? That's just ridiculous.

[ikester7579]

But the text doesn't specify anything that you just said. You simply interpreted it like that. I interpret these verses as contradictions. There's no reason to suppose that your interpretation is any more correct than mine.

If this document was in fact the word of god, don't you think it would have been worded more clearly.

He interpreted this just like evos interpretate fossils dug up. The fossil does not tell you how it supposedly evolved. A dug up fossil can only reveal three things:

1) What layer it was found in,
2) How old it dated,
3) What species it was (in most cases).

The rest is where the fossil is made to conform to a theory by an individual who believes in evolution only.

[ikester7579]

I get you points and I definitely wasn't trying to get a laugh or "watch you squirm", I'm just genuinely curious of what you think about contradictions such as this:

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

The Bible not only list truths, but it lists people's opinions. And since the ones who wrote it had opinions because they did not know everything, some of those opinions were wrong. We all know that God was seen. So let's look at the verse in context instead of out of context as it is presented.

John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

Now this is Jon's personal opinion because John has not seen Him. and he may not believe that others have seen him either.

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Moses wanted to look at God face to face. God told Moses that no man (mortal man) can look at my face and live. But allowed Moses to see Him as He passed by not looking into His face.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Here again, the verse is quoted out of context. What is being talked about here is the separation between the heavens (realms), The light spoke of is the light that is in Heaven that is eternal. No man can see this light unless they are saved and pass from life.

How can the bible have such contradictory things in it, if it is in fact the word of god?

Or this contradiction about how Judas died:

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

Or this one describing god as war hungry and peaceful:

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

I'm not trying to be aggressive or force you to rethink etc. I'm just genuinely curious about how you explain these kinds of contradictions in the bible. Do you think that it's misinterpretation, or that in fact the bible does have errors r something else altogether?

Sorry again for the jump in sort of attitude in my first post, I was just tired and not thinking straight. I hope this is better.

On one note you are trying to present yourself as an innocent person asking questions, On another note when someone tries to answer you, you lash back. I have yet to see any evidence that you are asking these questions as an innocent atheists that is just curious. Being that you also use a well known Bible scoffing site that quotes every verse out of context. They are to afraid to list a whole verse, or the verses around it that put what is being spoke of into context. You use that site because you approve of everything on it. If not make a list of what you don't approve of.

I find this ironic that here it is that most evos complain that creationists do this and call it quote mining. Here it is where you guys set the example by doing it better than anyone else. Where did you think we learned it from in the first place? It's funny that you guys can dish it out but cannot take it when it's dished back to you.

Game is over, and this thread is closed. Start another one like this to waste time here with your Bible scoffing and you will be banned, You have been warned.