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#1 Guest_Ben_*

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:55 PM

A belated hello to all and sundry (given that this will be my 20th post or so). I'm not one for lecture-like monologues about myself so if anyone has anything to ask about me, my history or my opinions then please ask. I will, as always, answer honestly and to the best of my knowledge.

To Adam Nagy, as a continuance of the thread I didn't intend to derail (my first post in that thread was on topic, at least!):

At a bear[sic] minimum, we have at least four known common ancestors; Noah and his wife and Adam & Eve.


Good riposte. You did somewhat leap to the conclusion that I'm European (with a name like 'Ben', I could well be Arabian or Middle Eastern) but it did get me thinking about famiily histories and the like. Americans (sweeping generalisation alert) do seem to be more interested in their ancestry than most. I wonder how many people on these boards are aware of their family tree and far back it goes. Also, by what method they track it back.

I, for one, and keeping with the theme of these forums, would place more truck with genetic printing than with census records. Which leads me to ask, do any creationists rely on genetic testing? Has anyone had, say, a paternity test done whereby they relied on the (very accurate) determination of such a test? Or perhaps a test to see if they were at risk of Huntington's or somesuch? This isn't a trick question, nor is it a desperate grab for ammunition against your views; I'm simply curious as to how far the trust in genetic science goes.

(For those who wish to answer, but not publicly, you can eMail me through the boards or directly at ben@pantheonbusinessgroup.com. All eMails will be treated in the strictest confidence.)

For the record, I have very little knowledge of my own family tree - it's something that I've never really looked into. In fact, I own a house whose history spans more time than my current knowledge of my own ancestry (and the formation of the USA, come to that). I don't consider my ancestry (or my genetic code) to be anything other than a very gross generalisation of what I am.

Anyway, I've managed to ramble off-topic in my own topic. It comes with age. When you're as old as I am, sometimes you forget to... do... something. It'll come to me.

Anyway, Adam, what were you doing in that hole?

#2 Adam Nagy

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:18 PM

That hole was an opening to a very narrow cave which should only be attempted by small structured brave women. Here is a picture of me in the larger part past the opening:

Posted Image


Here is a different angle of what the opening is like:


Posted Image

#3 Adam Nagy

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:22 PM

Supposedly, those that are brave enough (and small enough, I'm 6'3" tall and 240lbs, bad narrow cave spelunking attributes... :) ) after about 500 yards of following that narrow underground crack, you'll see it opens up into rooms with beautiful cave formations. It's about five miles from my house and it is ground that is rich with limestone deposits so I can only imagine the cool things to see if you are tough enough and small enough to make it back there.

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:29 PM

Science will always interpret evidence one way. So to imply that we are against science, or even hate science is far from the truth. When science starts telling the truth instead of claiming truth is relative. And can also define truth without beating around the bush. Then I would say their claims are trust worthy. But until then, which will "never happen", I don't trust science.

Example: If you came to a church expecting to hear God's word preached. And the preacher stood behind the pulpit and said: There are no absolutes, and truth is relative. So now I preach the true word of God. What would you think? Did he not just make a oxymoron comment?

You see you cannot claim truth and deny it at the same time. You cannot claim truth yet refuse to commit to a definition of the word you use. The only advantage to doing this is that it allows the goal post of what is claimed to be never fixed, so that these goal posts can be constantly moved to make what you believe always "look" true.

There is a difference between looking true and being true. One only requires a person to ponder to visualize it as being true, while the other requires one to prove it.

#5 Guest_Ben_*

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:35 PM

That's fantastic! Have you ever managed to make it to those cave formations or are you simply too large regardless of how many biscuits you cut back on? I can't imagine anything more frustrating than simply being 'too big' to get to something you're skilled enough to reach if you were just a fraction smaller. If you did make it, do you have the photo's uploaded anywhere?

What made you go for potholing as a hobby? It takes a rare kind to look at a hole and say "Well, that's dark, damp, cramped and thoroughly dangerous. Hey, someone hold my ankles!".

Or is it not a hobby? Did the wife's dog go down there and, you know, you just HAD to get it back?

[Edited at 2242 by BS to correct grammatical errors.]

#6 Guest_Ben_*

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:41 PM

ikester7579,

Are you sure you have the right thread? I'm afraid I can't find anything in your post that relates to my OP...

#7 Adam Nagy

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:54 PM

That's fantastic! Have you ever managed to make it to those cave formations or are you simply too large regardless of how many biscuits you cut back on? I can't imagine anything more frustrating than simply being 'too big' to get to something you're skilled enough to reach if you were just a fraction smaller. If you did make it, do you have the photo's uploaded anywhere?

What made you go for potholing as a hobby? It takes a rare kind to look at a hole and say "Well, that's dark, damp, cramped and thoroughly dangerous. Hey, someone hold my ankles!".

Or is it not a hobby? Did the wife's dog go down there and, you know, you just HAD to get it back?

View Post

I wouldn't say potholing is a hobby. I've only gone a couple times. No, my lard butt did not give me the ability to go back to the fabled formations. It was rather frustrating. I could only go back about fifty feet or so before things got to narrow for my carcass.

#8 Guest_Ben_*

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:08 PM

I suppose you could always try again, this time naked and covered with butter. You could claim it was to help you squeeze through but, really, we all know you just like being naked and covered in butter in public.

How did you feel when you did went potholing? I've done it a couple of times and, although I'm a good half foot shorter than you, I'm built like a freight train and just as unable to squeeze through narrow gaps. I was close to terror for the most part. Panic, to me at any rate, felt like just a hair's breadth away. Generally, all you need do if you get 'stuck' is stay calm, exhale deeply and you can retrace your actions - but the urge to start screaming and digging for the surface with your fingernails is near overwhelming.

Wait, did you hear that? The walls moved, I swear it. Moving closer. They're.... get me OUT OF HERE!!!

[Edited at 2310 by BS to remove repetition.]

#9 ikester7579

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 03:46 PM

ikester7579,

Are you sure you have the right thread? I'm afraid I can't find anything in your post that relates to my OP...

View Post


This isn't a trick question, nor is it a desperate grab for ammunition against your views; I'm simply curious as to how far the trust in genetic science goes.


Basically atheists like to claim that YEC's hate science. Are against science. So when you came in here to question our trust in genetic science, it's basically saying what science do we trust?

#10 Guest_Ben_*

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 04:51 PM

Basically atheists like to claim that YEC's hate science. Are against science. So when you came in here to question our trust in genetic science, it's basically saying what science do we trust?


I actually came in here - as evident by my first post - to clear up a misunderstanding relating to abiogenesis and evolution. I believe I've done this. This particular thread is, as I thought was abundantly clear, an intro as suggested by Adam and my own personal, non-judgemental questions regarding where people are from, what they think (if anything) of their family tree and what they think (if anything) of the ability of genetics to trace it. I thought I'd made it quite clear it wasn't a trick question, I was just curious.

But never mind. I really like the way you lump all atheists into one clump of people who like to claim that YEC's hate science. No, really. I'm delighted to hear that you haven't already formed an opinion of me based solely on the fact that my profile says 'atheist'. It shows an open mind.

Oh. Wait.

SMod or no, I won't be responding to your posts from now on. I'm not here for conflict and your posts appear to be deliberately and unnecessarily confrontational. Considering this is supposed to be the 'Welcome section', you haven't made me feel welcome.

#11 ikester7579

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 07:06 PM

Basically atheists like to claim that YEC's hate science. Are against science. So when you came in here to question our trust in genetic science, it's basically saying what science do we trust?


I actually came in here - as evident by my first post - to clear up a misunderstanding relating to abiogenesis and evolution. I believe I've done this. This particular thread is, as I thought was abundantly clear, an intro as suggested by Adam and my own personal, non-judgemental questions regarding where people are from, what they think (if anything) of their family tree and what they think (if anything) of the ability of genetics to trace it. I thought I'd made it quite clear it wasn't a trick question, I was just curious.

But never mind. I really like the way you lump all atheists into one clump of people who like to claim that YEC's hate science. No, really. I'm delighted to hear that you haven't already formed an opinion of me based solely on the fact that my profile says 'atheist'. It shows an open mind.

Oh. Wait.

SMod or no, I won't be responding to your posts from now on. I'm not here for conflict and your posts appear to be deliberately and unnecessarily confrontational. Considering this is supposed to be the 'Welcome section', you haven't made me feel welcome.

View Post


That's funny coming from someone whom names their thread: I have arrived. What walks like and talks like a duck is a duck.

Then you join to do what? O, that's right. Correct all of us YECs because we are all wrong on abiogenesis? But then again what are we right on? Nothing? So you here to correct us on everything as well?

1) Arrogant thread name.
2) Arrogant attitude.

And about you wanting to ignore me. I'm a mod with admin powers. So to ignore would be a bannable offense. Because it means you are also ignoring those who enforce the rules here.

I have done this for almost 10 years. I know the difference between an average atheist and a atheist fundamentalist. One who searches Christian forums to correct everyone there. One whom is not debatable because he is right on everything.

In fact you think you are so right that you want to bait people into sending you e-mails. Then make the comment that their e-mails will remain confidential? That tells me you want people to say things to you that normally is not said so that you can post it on another forum or at FSTDT.com. So you bait to lure on top of being arrogant.

You may fool most, but you don't fool me.




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