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15 Evolutionary Gems Refuted


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#1 Fred Williams

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 10:19 PM

I've posted a new article here:

http://www.evolution...ems_Refuted.htm

Looking for comments/criticisms, typo corrections, etc. Thanks,

Fred

#2 Bruce V.

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:06 AM

I've posted a new article here:

http://www.evolution...ems_Refuted.htm

Looking for comments/criticisms, typo corrections, etc. Thanks,

Fred

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This the Nature article you are refuting.

#3 Bruce V.

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:06 AM

This the Nature article you are refuting.

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The fossil record has few if any real transitional fossils. When they find a something promising they go to great lengths to show that this "one" fossil proves evolution once and for all. For example, PBS had a documentary broadcast on Tiktaalik. But we do not have a shortage of fossils and if evolution were true the fossil record should be replete with transitional fossils. So evolution goes to extraordinarily effort extrapolating everything from few fossils rather than look at the bigger picture: There are few transitional fossils and even those fossils have question marks associated with it. If evolution were true it should not be hard to prove.

The fact that they have to go to such heroics to find a missing link tells you all have know about the evidence for evolution.

#4 MamaElephant

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 01:19 PM

Nice to see you here Fred! :) I didn't really look for typos, but didn't see anything glaring.

Well, the Red Queen also said: “sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.". The Red Queen must have been an evolutionist.

Love this!

As evolutionist Douglas Futyama states in his college textbook Evolutionary Biology, "The argument that adaptively directed mutations does not occur is one of the fundamental tenets of modern evolutionary theory" [emphasis added]. Evolutionary Biology, 1998, p 282.

Wonderful!

Eighty percent of their arguments were examples of adaptation that creationists have long embraced, even before Darwin, that showed no evidence whatsoever of neo-Darwinian evolution.

Is there a source or proof for this? I see this type of statement quite a lot, but have never seen anything backing it. It is my understanding that fixity of species was the creationist teaching among churches at the time of Darwin.

I would also expect something more specific in refuting Epidexipteryx as a transitional.

Nice conclusion.

#5 AFJ

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 05:17 PM

Posted Image

Indohyus - earliest known ancestor of the whale. Photograph: Getty


Posted Image

Pakicetus

Posted Image

Ambulocetus

These have similar ear bones and teeth to whales. The outer layer of their bones indicates they were water dwellers like hippos. And so....?

Does anyone notice any differences?

#6 AFJ

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 05:33 PM

Posted Image

Indohyus - earliest known ancestor of the whale. Photograph: Getty
Posted Image

Pakicetus

Posted Image

Ambulocetus

Posted Image

Whale

These have similar ear bones and teeth to whales.  The outer layer of their bones indicates they were water dwellers like hippos.  And so....?

Does anyone notice any differences?

Question:  The back legs on all would have been used for locomotion in the water.  What selective pressure caused the "ancestors" stop using them?  A mutation on the tail would have to have been simultaneous with a mutation in the legs.  Am I getting the point acrossed?  The legs were not on the end of the tail to have evolved into the flukes.

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#7 MamaElephant

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 06:37 PM

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Yes, but what of this?

Early whales, as exemplified by Ambulocetus natans, show well-formed fully functional hind legs.  Two other whales--Indocetus ramani and Rodhocetus kasrani--appear later in the fossil record and show diminished although still perfectly functional hind limbs.  Basilosaurus isis, finally, had very tiny hind limbs the utility of which is unknown.

http://www.maverickscience.com/whales-legs.htm

Okay: http://creationwiki......Talk.Origins)

The only real similarities that Ambulocetus natans has with whales is nose features that allowed it to swallow underwater, and ear structure that allowed them to hear well underwater. Ambulocetus natans seems to have spent much time both on land and under water, but that does not make it transitional.  Indocetus ramani is known only from partial remains, including the skull, pelvic bones, vertebrae, and parts of hind limb bones. There is no other information about Indocetus ramani, not even a description of why evolutionists consider it to be transitional.


What of the others then?

And... showing my ignorance here... how on earth can you tell if a fossil had flukes? I mean... modern basking sharks look all wrong when found rotting. Imagine if one partially fossilized. I am sure that they would have no idea what it was.

#8 gilbo12345

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:21 PM

Posted Image

Indohyus - earliest known ancestor of the whale. Photograph: Getty
Posted Image

Pakicetus

Posted Image

Ambulocetus

These have similar ear bones and teeth to whales.  The outer layer of their bones indicates they were water dwellers like hippos.  And so....?

Does anyone notice any differences?

View Post


Here is a profound difference :)

The way the back legs bend on the first 2 are opposite to each other... Also the amount of "bends" in the back legs are more in the first than the second

EDIT: Also the tail is thinner in the second compared to the first, however it then gets thicker and shorter in the third... (However this could be due to the artist)

#9 jason777

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 12:41 AM

Looking for comments/criticisms, typo corrections, etc. Thanks,



Looks great, Fred. I thought venom immunity was from small non-lethal injections. I saw a man on a TV show once that injects himself and now he is immune to snake venom. It believe it works like a measles vaccination; Certainly has nothing to do with evolution except for the immune system being passed down to the next generation.



Thanks.

#10 jason777

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 12:59 AM

The fossil record has few if any real transitional fossils. When they find a something promising they go to great lengths to show that this "one" fossil proves evolution once and for all. For example, PBS had a documentary broadcast on Tiktaalik.


Thousands of fish species + Thousands of amphibians + 1 fossil that may be transitional= A fact. With those kinds of odds anybody could call anything a fact.

#11 MamaElephant

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 07:49 AM

Looking for comments/criticisms, typo corrections, etc. Thanks,

Looks great, Fred. I thought venom immunity was from small non-lethal injections. I saw a man on a TV show once that injects himself and now he is immune to snake venom. It believe it works like a measles vaccination; Certainly has nothing to do with evolution except for the immune system being passed down to the next generation.
Thanks.

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Actually, that would certainly not be passed down to the next generation.

The article that I read about it said that certain animals are less likely to succumb to venom to begin with. They have a larger body size, are more cautious, yada yada and these animals survive and pass on their genes where as the smaller risk takers don't. It was described as natural selection working on already present variation.

#12 gilbo12345

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 09:46 AM

Thousands of fish species + Thousands of amphibians + 1 fossil that may be transitional= A fact. With those kinds of odds anybody could call anything a fact.

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I've been to the moon :)

#13 Fred Williams

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:17 AM

Thanks everyone. I have since updated the article with some of your feedback, mostly the feathered dinosaur "gem" and the conclusion.

http://www.evolution...ems_Refuted.htm

Fred

#14 MamaElephant

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:00 AM

Thanks everyone. I have since updated the article with some of your feedback, mostly the feathered dinosaur "gem" and the conclusion.

http://www.evolution...ems_Refuted.htm

Fred

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Very nice. GREAT links! I especially appreciate the additional info on the "feathered dino" (obviously) and the paper by Edward Blyth.

I love, love this quote. I want to get this textbook so that I can use this quote. Brilliant.

As evolutionist Douglas Futyama states in his college textbook Evolutionary Biology, "The argument that adaptively directed mutations does not occur is one of the fundamental tenets of modern evolutionary theory" [emphasis added]. Evolutionary Biology, 1998, p 282.


Well done. IMO (which may not account for much, but I will give it anyway because I can't help but comment on everything :D ). B)

#15 MamaElephant

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:06 AM

Actually, that would certainly not be passed down to the next generation.

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OOPS. Mothers do pass immunity down. I wasn't thinking clearly. :D Sorry about that. Posted Image

#16 MamaElephant

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 05:17 PM

What Hurum did know was that Ida came from a time when the primate lineage that led to monkeys, apes and humans split from another group of animals that became lemurs and lorises.

And how exactly did he know this?

Fred, I am enjoying your article. I think it was needed. I am still following all of the links.

#17 Ron

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:44 AM

I've been to the moon B)

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Me too... I'm quite fond of E. R. Burroughs :D

#18 ikester7579

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 06:18 PM

A few members made the debate turn more personal. I have cleaned up the thread and the debate can continue. If it happens again, thread maybe closed.

#19 AFJ

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:51 PM

Here is a profound difference :D

The way the back legs bend on the first 2 are opposite to each other... Also the amount of "bends" in the back legs are more in the first than the second

EDIT: Also the tail is thinner in the second compared to the first, however it then gets thicker and shorter in the third... (However this could be due to the artist)

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Posted Image

Here it is: this is the proof of an ancestor of a whale. Did anyone see this guy do anything? Parent anything?

Here's AiG's version:

Posted Image

They're a little different. Does anyone know why? Are they two different skeletons? The first one is a computerized reconstruction. Why do they need to reconstruct it? Why can't they just lay the fossils out, and tell us where they found it, what kind of geology they were in, and what other flora/fauna was next to it?

Mr. Evolutionist, I don't want to hear your story, I'm really tired of your opinion. If it's so true, quit shoving your worldview down my throat. I can back up and test--I'm not a robot, but back off with all your dogma for a second, so I can REASON with my mind!!

These bones don't speak, they don't tell me anything!! SO what if they have similar features (like teeth and ear bones) as something else. Is everything in creation supposed to be TOTALLY different in order to prove God made it?
:angry:

#20 JoshuaJacob

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:11 PM

These bones do say something, that these creature walked on four legs. For the life of Me I cant see a whale ancestor here.




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