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Canon, Inspiration, Infallibility, And God's Word.


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#21 ikester7579

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 05:21 PM

Acts 8:26-39

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Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Seeking counsel either from God, or a man of God. God put Phillip there in time to bring him to Christ, and when finished took him away. Eunuch did not try to rely on his own understanding, like having other books that told him what was meant. He kept to the one and truly sought truth and God provided.

Now do you think that would have happened if he had several books that told him what the one meant?

#22 MamaElephant

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 01:42 PM

KJV Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation

See the word kindred is changed to tribe.

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A word here, a word there and the person who is doing in depth study gets the wrong idea of what applies to whom.

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Interesting about Revelation and then difference between tribe and kindred. I might check it out in the Greek Interlinear and my reference bible to see if there is a footnote.

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I can usually find a footnote regarding possible different meanings, but I didn't here. I found these scriptures in the three translations for comparison of the words kindred and tribe in case anyone is interested in the results:

King James Version: Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Acts 4:6 And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.

Greek Interlinear:
Heb 7:13 Concerning whom for are spoken things tribe (φυλῆς; phulēs) to another belongs of whom man has attended to the altar.

Revelation 5:9 And they sing song new saying worthy you are to take the book and to open the seals of it for you were killed and purchased from God by the blood of you out of every tribe (φυλῆς; phulēs) and tongue and people and nation.

Acts 4:6 And Annas high priest and Caiaphas and John and Alexander and as many as were of descent (γένους; genous) highly priest.

New World Translation Reference Bible: (Hebrews 7:13) For the man respecting whom these things are said has been a member of another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. (No footnote)

(Revelation 5:9) And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, (no footnote)

(Acts 4:6) (also An′nas the chief priest and Ca′ia·phas and John and Alexander and as many as were of the chief priest’s kinsfolk),

http://interlinearbi...tthew/19-28.htm

http://yecheadquarters.org/ABS/

#23 MamaElephant

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 01:46 PM

I thought of a book not published by JWs (I am assuming that I am not allowed to recommend those) that may be helpful. It is called: "TRUTH IN TRANSLATION: ACCURACY AND BIAS IN ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT"
Author: Jason David BeDuhn is the Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff. He holds a B.A. in Religious Studies from the University of Illinois, an M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins form Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in Comparative Study of Religions form Indiana University, Bloomington.

The Nine English Translations Compared in BeDuhn's book are:

- The King James Version (KJV)
- The A mplified Bible (AB)
- The Living Bible (LB)
- The New American Bible (NAB)
- The New American Standard Bible (NASB)
- The New International Version (NIV)
- The New World Translation (NW)
- The (New) Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
- Today's English Version (TEV)

you don't want to change.  So you nick pick. And you are creating a never ending debate. Sometimes when you don't want change, you have to agree to disagree.

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Oh no Ikester! In the future I shall try to not be my mother. :)

#24 MamaElephant

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 02:15 PM

The Bible's fight to survive:

Make no mistake, from a human standpoint the survival of the Bible was not a foregone conclusion. The communities that produced it suffered such difficult trials and bitter oppression that its survival to our day is truly remarkable. In the years before Christ, the Jews who produced the Hebrew Scriptures (the “Old Testament”) were a relatively small nation. They dwelt precariously amid powerful political states that were jostling with one another for supremacy. Israel had to fight for its life against a succession of nations, such as the Philistines, the Moabites, the Ammonites, and the Edomites. During a period when the Hebrews were divided into two kingdoms, the cruel Assyrian Empire virtually wiped out the northern kingdom, while the Babylonians destroyed the southern kingdom, taking the people into an exile from which only a remnant returned 70 years later.

There are even reports of attempted genocide against the Israelites. Back in the days of Moses, Pharaoh ordered the murder of all their newborn baby boys. If his order had been observed, the Hebrew people would have been annihilated. (Exodus 1:15-22) Much later, when the Jews came under Persian rule, their enemies plotted to get a law passed intended to exterminate them. (Esther 3:1-15) The failure of this scheme is still celebrated in the Jewish Festival of Purim.

From Nero's time on, being a Christian was considered a capital offense by Roman authorities.2 In 303 C.E., Emperor Diocletian acted directly against the Bible. In an effort to stamp out Christianity, he ordered that all Christian Bibles should be burned.3

These campaigns of oppression and genocide were a real threat to the Bible’s survival. If the Jews had gone the way of the Philistines and the Moabites or if the efforts of first the Jewish and then the Roman authorities to stamp out Christianity had succeeded, who would have written and preserved the Bible? Happily, the guardians of the Bible—first the Jews and then the Christians—were not wiped out, and the Bible survived.


Then we have another problem:

“There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.”—2 Peter 2:1, 2.


Eventually, the apostate church used its political power in a way that was completely opposed to Bible Christianity, introducing another dangerous threat to the Bible.
When Latin died out as an everyday tongue, new translations of the Bible were needed. But the Catholic Church no longer favored this. In 1079 Vratislaus, who later became king of Bohemia, asked the permission of Pope Gregory VII to translate the Bible into the language of his subjects. The pope’s answer was no.1

The pope wanted the Bible to be kept in the now-dead tongue of Latin. Its contents were to be kept “secret,” not translated into the languages of the common people. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate, produced in the 5th century to make the Bible accessible to all, now became a means of keeping it hidden.


The Church Burned Bibles!

As the Middle Ages progressed, the Church’s stand against vernacular Bibles hardened. In 1199 Pope Innocent III wrote such a strong letter to the archbishop of Metz, Germany, that the archbishop burned all the German-language Bibles he could find.3 In 1229 the synod of Toulouse, France, decreed that “lay people” could not possess any Bible books in the common tongue.4 In 1233 a provincial synod of Tarragona, Spain, commanded that all books of “the Old or New Testament” be handed over to be burned.5 In 1407 the synod of clergy summoned in Oxford, England, by Archbishop Thomas Arundel expressly forbade the translating of the Bible into English or any other modern tongue.6 In 1431, also in England, Bishop Stafford of Wells forbade the translating of the Bible into English and the owning of such translations.7

These religious authorities were not trying to destroy the Bible. They were trying to fossilize it, keep it in a language that only a few could read. In this way, they hoped to prevent what they called heresy but what really amounted to challenges to their authority.

Individuals suffered terribly for the “crime” of owning a Bible. 8

Eventually, after the Protestant rebellion against Roman Catholic power in the 16th century, the Roman Catholic Church itself produced translations of the Bible in the everyday languages of Europe. But even then, the Bible was associated more with Protestantism than with Catholicism. As Roman Catholic priest Edward J. Ciuba wrote: “One would honestly have to admit that one of the more tragic consequences of the Protestant Reformation was a neglect of the Bible among the Catholic faithful. While it was never completely forgotten, the Bible was a closed book for most Catholics.”9

The Word of God Survives

It is remarkable, indeed, that the book has survived until today and still exercises a good influence on many people’s lives. The Bible has survived bitter opposition to translating it, onslaughts from modernistic scholars, and the unchristian conduct of its false friends included in Christendom. Why? Because the Bible is unlike any other written work. The Bible cannot die. It is the Word of God, and the Bible itself tells us: “The grass withers, the flowers fade, but the word of our God endures for evermore.”—Isaiah 40:8, The New English Bible.

References:
1. Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by James B. Pritchard, 1969, pp. vi, xii, xiii, xiv.

2. The Annals, by Tacitus, Book XV. 39, 44 (Latin Selections, edited by Moses Hadas and Thomas Suits, 1961, p. 227).

3. The Cambridge History of the Bible, edited by S. L. Greenslade, 1963, Vol. 3, p. 476.

4. Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, by Sir Frederic Kenyon, 1958, p. 50.

5. Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, p. 79.

6. A Light to the Nations, by Norman K. Gottwald, 1959, p. 40.

7. The Dead Sea Scrolls, by Millar Burrows, 1955, pp. 303, 304.

8. Qumran and the History of the Biblical Text, edited by Frank Moore Cross and Shemaryahu Talmon, 1975, pp. 276, 277.

9. An Introduction to the Books of the Old Testament, by W. O. E. Oesterley and Theodore H. Robinson, 1958, p. 21.

10. Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, p. 55.


1. The Lollard Bible and Other Medieval Biblical Versions, by Margaret Deanesly, 1920, p. 24.

2. The Lollard Bible, p. 227.

3. The Lollard Bible, pp. 30-33.

4. The Lollard Bible, p. 36.

5. The Lollard Bible, p. 48.

6. The Lollard Bible, pp. 295, 296.

7. The Lollard Bible, p. 328.

8. The History of Christian Martyrdom, by John Foxe, 1873, p. 130; Casiodoro de Reina, Spanish Reformer of the Sixteenth Century, by A. Gordon Kinder, p. 16.

9. Who Do You Say That I Am? by Edward J. Ciuba, 1974, p. viii.

10. The Crusades, by Hans Eberhard Mayer, translated by John Gillingham, 1978, p. 44.

11. The Universal History of the World, by Edith Firoozi and Ira N. Klein, 1966, Vol. IX, p. 732.

12. A Brief History of Ancient, Mediæval, and Modern Peoples, by Joel Dorman Steele and Esther Baker Steele, 1883, pp. 428, 429.

13. The Church and Its Mission: A Shattering Critique From the Third World, by Orlando E. Costas, 1974, p. 245.




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