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What Are The New Heavens And The New Earth?


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#1 MamaElephant

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 07:30 AM

I understand that the new earth could be new in the same way that it was after the flood. What do you think?

The New Heavens... well I am not entirely sure what that means at all. Care to enlighten me?

#2 MamaElephant

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 05:08 PM

I am all ears and open to PMs if that is preferable.

#3 performedge

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:42 PM

I understand that the new earth could be new in the same way that it was after the flood. What do you think?

The New Heavens... well I am not entirely sure what that means at all. Care to enlighten me?

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The earth was pretty a mess after the flood. What do you mean by after the flood?

#4 JoshuaJacob

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 11:15 PM

I think she meant before the flood.

#5 ikester7579

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 12:06 AM

I understand that the new earth could be new in the same way that it was after the flood. What do you think?

The New Heavens... well I am not entirely sure what that means at all. Care to enlighten me?

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I understand that the new earth could be new in the same way that it was after the flood. What do you think?

The New Heavens... well I am not entirely sure what that means at all. Care to enlighten me?

View Post


The word Heavens has a dual meaning. And can be spiritual or temporal (physical). It's according to the word usage around it.

Example of physical heaven:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Because the physical realm did not exist yet to contain the earth, a physical heaven was created. That is why it is in the order you see.

First you have to have time to create: In the beginning.
Second you have to have a place to put you creation: heaven.
The you put your creation: Earth.

Example of spiritual heavens:

2cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

These are realms (3 heavens) were different beings exist.

Heaven 1 Is the physical heaven of good and evil (where we are).
Heaven 2 Is the spiritual heaven of just evil (where Satan and his fallen angels are).
Heaven 3 Is the spiritual Heaven of just good (where God, His Son, and the unfallen angels are).

So when it is said: A new heaven and a new earth. The spiritual Heavens do not need to be recreated because they are eternal. Our physical heaven and earth are not. So what will be new is our earth and the whole universe. In order for us to see it how it was created before man sinned, it has to be this way. Also for God's city to come down on it, it cannot be corrupted. So being made new makes it possible for God and His Son to exist here for a 1,000 years.

She's talking about after the tribulation.

rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

#6 MamaElephant

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 06:54 AM

Thanks.

Oh, I was speaking of 2 Peter 3:5-7

Are there any other uses of heaven? There is a physical, a spiritual, is there a figurative use? If so, why would it apply to this scripture? (Yes I am questioning what I have been taught, bear with me.)

It appears to me that 2 Peter 3:5-7 speak of an old heavens as well as an old earth... I never noticed that before.

This seems to line up with what ikester is saying. :rolleyes:

#7 ikester7579

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 11:53 AM

Thanks.

Oh, I was speaking of 2 Peter 3:5-7

Are there any other uses of heaven? There is a physical, a spiritual, is there a figurative use? If so, why would it apply to this scripture? (Yes I am questioning what I have been taught, bear with me.)

It appears to me that 2 Peter 3:5-7 speak of an old heavens as well as an old earth... I never noticed that before.

This seems to line up with what ikester is saying.  :rolleyes:

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Well you have the time before the flood which is referred to as "of old" time. Basically created with age already added during the 6 days of creation.

gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

deut 19:14 Thou shalt not remove thy neighbor's landmark, which they of old time have set in thine inheritance, which thou shalt inherit in the land that the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it.

deut 32:7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will show thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.

etc...

Even the creation was made of old (age added).

ps 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation Of the earth: and the heavens are the work Of thy hands.

The reason I mention this is because some of the references to heaven or heavens might be a reference to the creation before sin.

Also here is some more support for the 3 heavens I talked about earlier:

deut 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

1kings 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

2chron 2:6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

2chron 6:18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!

neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

#8 MamaElephant

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 05:11 AM

Any comments on this article?

http://www.jehovahsw...m/TheEarth.html

The next passage of Scripture that we must examine is Revelation 21:1-27, which is very helpful in explaining to us the nature of the new Heavens and the new Earth. By symbollizing this chapter of Revelation, the Jehovah's Witnesses have made a terrible error, which has resulted in their erroneous teaching that only 144,000 Christians will ever go to Heaven, and all other Christians will remain on a paradise Earth, with the 2 groups being separate for eternity. As has been stated, this teaching can be found nowhere in the Word of God, and cannot be supported by any verse of Scripture. Had they only interpreted Revelation 21 in a literal sense (meaning that God means exactly what He says), then they would have realized that there is no contradiction between a Heavenly hope for all believers, and an Earthly hope for all believers. The key is to understand the NATURE of the new Heavens and the new Earth. In verse 1 of Rev. 21, we read:


"And I saw a NEW HEAVEN and a NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth WERE PASSED AWAY; and there was no more sea." This confirms exactly what Peter said, namely that this earth WILL be destroyed, but there will be a NEW earth. Many Christians have been frustrated when they tell a J.W. that the earth will be destroyed, only to have the J.W. show them a Scripture teaching that the earth "will abide forever." Let me emphasize that this is the MAIN argument for the J.W's contention that only 144,000 go to Heaven, because as we have already seen in our previous teaching, they have NO Scripture to back this doctrine. It is based solely on the belief that, if everyone is in Heaven, there would be no one to inhabit the earth. That is why a proper understanding of this passage is so vital, because it COMPLETLY solves the problem.


Notice VERY carefully verse 2: "And I, John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, COMING DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN." Remember that we have already been told in v. 1 that there will be a new Heaven, as well as a new earth. This is the new Heaven. At this point, Heaven and Earth will no longer be two separate places as they are now, but they will become ONE! Read v. 3: "and God Himself shall be with them." In v. 14, we are told this city has the names of the 12 apostles in its foundations, showing that all New Testament believers will be there. Verse 12 says the gates of the city have the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, showing that all Old Testament saints will be there. The climax is found in v. 22-26, when it is made clear that, not only will the saints from all the ages be there, but GOD HIMSELF will be there, and will be the light and glory of it!


J.W.'s have argued that this is not a literal city, but the detailed description of this city found in verses 10-21 eliminates anything but a literal interpretation.



#9 ikester7579

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 06:25 PM

Any comments on this article?

http://www.jehovahsw...m/TheEarth.html


If you are speaking of the new heaven and earth after the earth is purified by fire. Then what is being done is the earth is being returned to the same condition before man sinned. In other words it will be like the Garden of Eden. This has to be so, so that the city of God can come down and be on earth. This cannot happen with a earth corrupted by sin and sinful things man has made. This is why "all" has to be destroyed so that all can be made new again.

This is done for the 1,000 year reign. We will be on the new earth. And because God will come down to dwell here for 1,000 years, it will also become the new Heaven for 1,000 years. God is going to actual move Heaven (New Jerusalem) to earth. Then at the end of the 1,000 years we will all go to the original Heaven.

#10 MamaElephant

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 05:38 AM

If you are speaking of the new heaven and earth after the earth is purified by fire. Then what is being done is the earth is being returned to the same condition before man sinned. In other words it will be like the Garden of Eden. This has to be so, so that the city of God can come down and be on earth. This cannot happen with a earth corrupted by sin and sinful things man has made. This is why "all" has to be destroyed so that all can be made new again.

This is done for the 1,000 year reign. We will be on the new earth. And because God will come down to dwell here for 1,000 years, it will also become the new Heaven for 1,000 years. God is going to actual move Heaven (New Jerusalem) to earth. Then at the end of the 1,000 years we will all go to the original Heaven.

Wow! So many revelations all at once. And all since I accepted that Christ is my only mediator. This has the ring of truth and it is beautiful! I noticed that this lines up with what you had said earlier about God walking in the garden before sin.




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