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Travelling To Mars


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#1 chance

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 07:28 PM

I thought a change of pace might be a bit of fun. I set the situation and pose a question, you answer, we see where it leads.

(This is blatant rip-off from another forum and not my original idea, however mine much funnier) :lol:


OK here we go:

You are an astronaut about to travel to Mars (flight time: 3 months one way, stop over for one year, then back again). This is a significant undertaking at a professional and personal level.

At one of the many pre-launch press conferences you and the world witness a remarkable event. To the right of the speaker a shimmering circle appears, through which an alien steps out and begins to address the crowd.

“Greetings, doods. I come in peace.” (His English, while understandable, is clearly the product of watching and interpreting television.) The usual pleasantries follow. As does the obligatory question-and-answer time with the press.

Q – “How did you just get here, and where is your mother ship?”

A – “We no longer travel anywhere using any type of vehicle, we … wormhole travel [shows a small device not unlike the new ‘I-Pods’]. (By a strange coincidence they can also store music.)”
“I simply enter the coordinates thus, press this button, an… (two light-circles appear, one in front of the alien and one at the back of the room; the alien steps in and steps out on the other side of the room) …d I am at the new location.”
“Cool ay!”

The press and scientists agree that it is indeed cool, and can they have one too?

“No problem,” says the alien, “they are cheap and run off 2 double-A batteries. I recommend the astronauts be the first to demonstrate them with the trip to Mars.”

And off they go, the trips to Mars are a success, the ‘astronauts’ come and go as they please, bring rock samples back, etc.; they are none the worse for the trip. Basically everything is just peachy.

BUT THEN....

At a further press conference the following question is asked of the alien.

Q – How does the little hand-held ‘wormhole traveller’ have the power to fold space, so that I can step through to the other side?

A – The ‘wormhole traveller’ does not fold space; it was named after the person who invented it, Mrs Wormhole.

Q – What is the principle by which this device works, then?

A – Your body and mind are scanned, copied, then transmitted to the destination. This process utterly destroys the body in the process. You are then reassembled, perfectly, from available matter and energy at the destination.

Stunned silence.

……………………………………………

Problems?

1. Would you take the ‘fast’ trip to Mars if asked? Give reasons.

2. Are the astronauts' wives now widows and thus entitled to claim benefits and re-marry?

#2 Guest_Admin3_*

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 03:12 AM

Well, I have a question. Is not our magnetic field (a planet or moon, generated magnetic field) required for us to survive? If we leave it, would we not die? And if not, NASA should already be doing test flight simulation away from our planet, and our moon. So that we know what to expect. But they have not, which tells me there's a problem.

#3 chance

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:30 PM

The earths magnetic field offers good protection against sub atomic particles (it deflects most of them). To counter this in space the astronaut is only protected by the ship and his space suite. The astronauts know this in advance and take the risk nonetheless. As to walking on Mars or the moon, there is an increased risk of exposure, no matter how you get there.

#4 st_dissent

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 08:10 PM

A – Your body and mind are scanned, copied, then transmitted to the destination. This process utterly destroys the body in the process. You are then reassembled, perfectly, from available matter and energy at the destination.

Stunned silence.

……………………………………………

Problems?

1. Would you take the ‘fast’ trip to Mars if asked? Give reasons.

2. Are the astronauts' wives now widows and thus entitled to claim benefits and re-marry?

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This is essentially "beaming up" like in Star Trek. I have often thought about this because you are essentially being killed, copied, and recreated. I believe Bones in Star Trek commented on this saying something along the lines of not having his body scattered all over space. Every time I think about this I always get stuck in a rut. Logically I believe that what comes out on the other end (if completely identical to me in every way) is me. I believe we are the summation of our experiences combined with the genetic limitations that we are born with. If these experience and limitations were transported along with everything else then what came out would be me.

However, I cannot escape the idea that my consciousness as I now know will terminate only to be picked up by my transported self. I suppose I would do it for the sake of curiosity. However I would consult the resident philosopher on the issue because I suck at philosophy.

For those that believe in souls the matter would be more complicated. How many times could one go to the afterlife? If Captain Kirk died would he meet multiple Kirk entities in the afterlife or would the soul be transported with everything else. If it were this would imply a soul to be a tangible measurable phenomenon.

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 03:21 PM

Any transmaission of this sort, also has to deal with being degraded. There is no known transmission type that is not degraded through distance of travel. And there are many ways something can be degraded.

So do we get a retarded recreation on Mars?

Guess we better hope a fly don't get transmitted with us as well. It would be a bummer to walk around Mars with a fly head :) .

#6 st_dissent

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 06:41 PM

What if the transportation device screwed up and made two copies of you? Which one would be legally considered you? What do we do with the other one?

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 09:43 PM

What if the transportation device screwed up and made two copies of you?  Which one would be legally considered you?  What do we do with the other one?

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Send him home to take your job, while you vacation on Mars :) .

#8 RockerforChrist14

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 11:34 PM

Wow this is all very hypothetical. What if this, what if that, lol. This is rather ridiculous although Chance, you're right in it being fun, it's rather amusing. :)

Trying to think about your two questions makes my mind turn into mush, so I think I'm not even going to attempt an answer. :)

#9 chance

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 06:47 PM

This is essentially "beaming up" like in Star Trek. I have often thought about this because you are essentially being killed, copied, and recreated. I believe Bones in Star Trek commented on this saying something along the lines of not having his body scattered all over space.


Agreed, same problem. But I don’t recollect any episode (nor in stargate) where the problem of “are you still you” is discussed.


Every time I think about this I always get stuck in a rut. Logically I believe that what comes out on the other end (if completely identical to me in every way) is me. I believe we are the summation of our experiences combined with the genetic limitations that we are born with. If these experience and limitations were transported along with everything else then what came out would be me.


At first analysis this seems very logical, but there are problems with this way of thinking, as I will demonstrate later.

However, I cannot escape the idea that my consciousness as I now know will terminate only to be picked up by my transported self. I suppose I would do it for the sake of curiosity.

Caution is advised. :o

However I would consult the resident philosopher on the issue because I suck at philosophy.


A layer might be more prudent.

For those that believe in souls the matter would be more complicated. How many times could one go to the afterlife? If Captain Kirk died would he meet multiple Kirk entities in the afterlife or would the soul be transported with everything else. If it were this would imply a soul to be a tangible measurable phenomenon.


Agreed, a complication – but the problem is somewhat left open by the nature of the scenario, i.e. the person transported appears fine. This could imply:

There is no soul, or
The soul can be replicated just like a body and mind.

Either way it has no affect on the story.

#10 chance

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 06:52 PM

Any transmaission of this sort, also has to deal with being degraded. There is no known transmission type that is not degraded through distance of travel. And there are many ways something can be degraded.

So do we get a retarded recreation on Mars?


Agreed, current technology and science predicts signals will degrade (parity transmissions will reduce this effect however). But for the purpose of this exercise the transmission is perfect in every respect.




Guess we better hope a fly don't get transmitted with us as well. It would be a bummer to walk around Mars with a fly head


great idea for a movie, but I think it’s been done :o


So you going to take the trip or not?

#11 chance

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 07:02 PM

Wow this is all very hypothetical. What if this, what if that, lol. This is rather ridiculous although Chance, you're right in it being fun, it's rather amusing. :o

Trying to think about your two questions makes my mind turn into mush, so I think I'm not even going to attempt an answer. :o

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All good mind games should have this effect, philosophy and law originate from such discussions. Speaking of mush -……

PART 2.
The alien is perplexed at the humans shock and apparent inability to understand the true workings of the device.

“Let me re-explain, You are destroyed in the copy process and recreated at the destination”

“This can be easily demonstrated by removing the safety protocol from the transmit algorithm.”

The alien fiddles with the device, and demonstrates again within the confines of the room.

This time there is a scream from the press as they witness the original alien reduced to a festering, smelly sludge on the floor in the departure zone; he still reappears as per usual in the arrival position a few meters away.

“Sorry about that, people, I haven’t done that since leaving my ex-wife. I suggest you get the cleaning staff in quick smart as I tend to stain the carpet quite badly.”

Still want to go?

#12 chance

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 07:16 PM

What if the transportation device screwed up and made two copies of you?  Which one would be legally considered you?  What do we do with the other one?

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Now your thinking.


PART 3
These problems have all been experienced by the alien race, he goes on to describe some of the earlier problems when the recording process was temporally stored on disk (just in case something went wrong).

“But it produced all sorts of problems, people would not put the DVD back in the right holder, and you would end up on the wrong planet without your luggage (how we laughed)”.
“Then there were problems if the DVD got scratched, and you were duplicated without a tentacle or two, heaven forbid if the DVD started repeating a track!”
“But the practice of recording to DVD was finally ended, when it was realised that the most common problem was that people used to tape the football over the recording, I mean you don’t want to miss the kick off, and there’s this DVD just sitting around……..”

#13 st_dissent

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 07:23 PM

I will probably muddle this statement up but aren't our bodies constantly destroying and creating cells. Biologically how many cells from childhood still exist in an old man?

#14 chance

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:28 PM

I will probably muddle this statement up but aren't our bodies constantly destroying and creating cells.  Biologically how many cells from childhood still exist in an old man?

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Shooting from the hip, just brain cells, I think.

#15 kclark

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 12:27 AM

What if the transportation device screwed up and made two copies of you?  Which one would be legally considered you?  What do we do with the other one?

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...Then there is the much more relevant (to our position in time anyway) question of scanning and duplicating our brains and neural networks. Imagine a scanner powerful enough to make a composite of your brain. Now imagine that we can measure your hormone and neurochemical levels to a very fine degree, fine enough that we can produce an exact working model of your responses and emotional states. Now imagine that we can imbue this "model" into a machine and feed detailed transcripts of your life and experiences....from birth to now into memory. What you have is machine that thinks like you, remembers your life, and which when questioned CLAIMS and THINKS IT IS "you".

This isn't a sci-fi fairytale, given Moor's law of computational power this will be possible (on a computational basis, I make no claims for scanning technology....though I wouldn't doubt it would be possible in the next 50 or 60 years) by the year 2042. I think once this happens, the debate over soul might be redefined to examine genisis and intelligence more closely.

Does merely having a physical body make one "real"? What if the real persona were destroyed and just the copy remained? As offspring of man, and there-by grandsons of God...would these "Intelligently Designed" machines inherit some spiritual component? I think Battlestar Galactica has beat me to some of these questions, but nobody has delved deeper than the Kurtzweiler in "The Age of Spiritual Machines". The implications of this might broaden a few horizons, or not. :(




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