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The Three Heavens.

Started by Guest_Admin3_* , Jul 21 2005 12:33 AM

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#1 Guest_Admin3_*

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 12:33 AM

Are there three heavens?

II Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, the heaven (1) and the heaven (2) of heavens (3) is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

I Kings 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven (1) and heaven (2) of heavens (3) cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

II Chronicles 2:6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven (1) and heaven (2) of heavens (3) cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

II Chronicles 6:18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven (1) and the heaven (2) of heavens (3) cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!

Nehemiah 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven (1), the heaven (2) of heavens (3), with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Three heavens is confirmed several times in God's word.

Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the "heavens" (plural) made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Confirmation of creation through the speaking of God's word. The use of the word breath means that God used the sound of His voice to make it so.

Psalm 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Three plural heavens.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Location of the reference of heavens (above the earth).

II Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Confirmation that the heavens were created with the appearance of age.
Example:
1) By the word of God....
2) The heavens were of old.

Here we see heaven being made old just by His word.

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Confirmation that even at the time of the laying of the faoundation of the earth, that it was old. So upon creation, it was made old. And because the word "Heavens" is used, all that is contained, besides the earth, was made old as well.

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#2 Guest_Admin3_*

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 12:45 AM

The heavens also hold the key to why there had to be three. For them to be seperate, there has to be something that can exist in each one, the cannot exist in the others.

The first verse of Genesis holds the key to why our heaven (the physical realm we live in) is seperate from God's.

Genesis1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The begining spells out what made us different from where God lives. Eternity requires no begining, and has no end. But time, always has to have a starting point. Or time could not exist. So here we see that time is the seperating factor beyween us and eternity.

II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

And the difference is confirmed here as well.

So time and eternity are the seperating factors between us and God.

But what seperates us and God from hell?

In the case with hell, it is pure evil that cannot exist in the other two heavens. Why? Our heaven has a choice. Pure evil does not have a choice. God's heaven has no sin, evil requires sin to exist. So you have three things that seperate the three heavens, and why they cannot coexist

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#3 Guest_Admin3_*

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 08:21 PM

In the creation, the singular heaven was used all through Genesis 1. Why? God was working with each heaven in a singular since because they were being created. Here are the examples:

Genesis 1,
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Notice that where ever heaven is mentioned, it is mentioned only once in each verse. And it is always in singular form. This is because God is working on one heaven. The one we live in. This is also so, so that when we read the: "Heaven and heaven of heavens" (three heavens), It has a more exact meaning of all heavens being refered to.

Only when God is done (finished) with His creation, is the word heaven made plural as shown in the next quote.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

And this is also confirmed in this verse:

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

This verse also confirms age being added during the creation:

These are the generations (age) of the heavens and of the earth when they were created,

And the second part of that verse confirms when the age was added:

in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

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#4 Fred Williams

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 08:50 PM

Very nice post, Admin3. Here's a very interesting, and IMO compelling article on the three Heavens:

http://denverbiblech...hydroplate.html

I don't necessarily ascribe to Brown's hydroplate model, but I like Pastor Enyart's exegesis of the three heavens. It does support Admin 3's claims for three heavens. Comments?

II Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Confirmation that the heavens were created with the appearance of age.
Example:
1) By the word of God....
2) The heavens were of old.

That's an interesting take on the 2 Peter 3 verse, I never thought of it that way and I think it is a possible explanation I'll have to consider. It certainly supports Henry Morris's view (arguably the greatest creation scientist of our time) of the "apparent age" of isotopes and the universe (his is a minority view among YEC, BTW). Until you mentioned this verse in the manner you interpreted it, I didn't give Morris' view on this much credence. Now I'll have to rethink that. Thanks alot!

I previously had always viewed 2 Peter 3 it as a way God saying the earth and heavens are old, after all, 6000 years really is VERY old!

Fred

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#5 Guest_Admin3_*

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 05:49 PM

Very nice post, Admin3. Here's a very interesting, and IMO compelling article on the three Heavens:

http://denverbiblech...hydroplate.html

I don't necessarily ascribe to Brown's hydroplate model, but I like Pastor Enyart's exegesis of the three heavens. It does support Admin 3's claims for three heavens. Comments?
That's an interesting take on the 2 Peter 3 verse, I never thought of it that way and I think it is a possible explanation I'll have to consider. It certainly supports Henry Morris's view (arguably the greatest creation scientist of our time) of the "apparent age" of isotopes and the universe (his is a minority view among YEC, BTW). Until you mentioned this verse in the manner you interpreted it, I didn't give Morris' view on this much credence. Now I'll have to rethink that. Thanks alot!

I previously had always viewed 2 Peter 3 it as a way God saying the earth and heavens are old, after all, 6000 years really is VERY old!

Fred

Sorry I have not gotten to this, but I had done some research, had my post done, then when I went to post it, it said: server busy, you have to wait. Well, all that reseach went down the tubes. Which made me mad. But I'll get back to it. Let's just say I found several flaws about the earth's crust being the firmament spoke of in God's word.

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#6 Christopher_John

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 02:42 AM

Hey guys,
I know this thread might be a little old seeing the last post was July 2005 but being the "New Guy" I thought I would at least like to respond on 2Peter 3:3-6.

What I find most interesting is when you look at not only verse 5 but verses 3 through 5;

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

From verse three we have the scoffers walking after their own lusts, in verse 4 they (scoffers) are identified as questioning the scriptures, scoffing at the idea of a coming Messiah.

Verse 5 tells us that the scoffers are willingly ignorant, that by The Word of God the heavens were of old.

We all know that the Bible is the Word of God, so the scoffers will be willingly ignorant that by the word of God the heavens were of old.

This verse sounds more like the prophecy of the Gap theory and or the Day Age theory that mankind has tried to squeeze into the Bible in order to to try and parallel the scientific view of the old earth theory.

People have attempted to say each of the days of creation were not literal 24 hour days but each day had hundreds of millions of years between them, so there will be some who are willingly ignorant to use the word of God (The Bible) as evidence to support the Gap theory or day age theory.

Going back to verse 3 gives us another clear indication:

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Those that are willingly ignorant will come in the last days, the times to which we are in now, not only have over 50% of people believing that the earth is billions of years old but nearly everone, Atheists, Agnostics and Christians alike, don't believe that the flood of Noah happened and that the world which then was being overflowed with water, perrished.

Verse 6:

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Try it some time ask a friend or relative or co-worker if they believe in the flood of Noah.

At least that's what I'm getting out of 2Peter 3: 3-6, their are lots of people out there that try and use scripture in order to argue in favor of contradiction.

Thus is the reason I have my signature set to Mark 12:24, I even have it embossed on the cover of my Bible.

Peace

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#7 disruptor

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 04:17 PM

Forgive me for intruding upon this thread, but this is the way I understand the “3 Heavens” issue. I thought it was the standard interpretation, so please correct me if I am wrong:

The First Heaven is the vault of the sky (Gen 1:8, 1:20, Isa 55:10).

The Second Heaven is “space”, i.e. the sun, moon and stars (Gen 15:5, 22:17, Deut 4:19, Nah 3:16).

These 2 together are the “heavens” (plural) of Gen 2:1.

The 3rd Heaven is the Divine Realm (Deut 10:14 and 26:15, 1 Ki 8:27 (“heaven of heavens” in these 3 cases), 1 Ki 8:30).

Incidentally, Apocryphal texts such as the Apocalypse of Paul even speak of 10 Heavens, with God in the 7th:

http://www.gnosis.or...ghamm/ascp.html

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#8 lwj2op2

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 03:51 AM

The best explanation I have for the three Heavens is:
God is in the first. It is holy, untouched by sin.
Angels and demons exist in the second. Angels may travel between all three. Demons may travel between the second and third.
We exist in the third.
We will join God in the first after our sin is removed.
I don't know of any specific passage to point at and state as clear support. While there are many instances of men interacting with angels or demons there is no instance of men interacting with God, only visions men have of Heaven. These are always clearly visions invloving no actual "visit" to Heaven. I don't know of a passage involving a man entering the second heaven either though I recall reading passages which apear to have men getting a peek at the second heaven.