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#1 MamaElephant

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:55 PM

I have family members who aren't happy to see me meditating on scriptures and connecting them in new ways. They think that I am not listening to God unless I listen to their overseers (the governing body of JWs). :( The funny thing is that the insistence that these people are God's channel and being compared to Moses is what pushes me away more than anything. Comparing them to Moses! Really, it is unbelievable!

It is sad that they think I am not serving God.

#2 ikester7579

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 01:35 PM

I have family members who aren't happy to see me meditating on scriptures and connecting them in new ways. They think that I am not listening to God unless I listen to their overseers (the governing body of JWs). :( The funny thing is that the insistence that these people are God's channel and being compared to Moses is what pushes me away more than anything. Comparing them to Moses! Really, it is unbelievable!

It is sad that they think I am not serving God.


This is what a controlled belief is. Believe as we do or else. You are at a fork in the road where you have to make a decision. A fork that I know very well. One I took and made a lot of people mad but I don't care. I'm closer to God now and guess who they come to for counsel? Me LOL. Ironic.

Anyway, change is scary. But determination to find truth should overwhelm that to the point you should not be afraid to put your toe in the water to test it. I think God has chosen you for a test. Whether you pass is how you react in it. And the choices you make.

Question: Which is more important to you, God's truth or JW truth?

The reason you feel a pull in another direction is that God is calling you. From my own experience, I can tell you that if you refuse that call it will go away. And you will never know what could have been revealed to you.

But let's look at your situation. As long as you adhere to the word in your quest for truth, you should not fear. Test all things with the word. If what you test does not fit and leads you back to JW, then you just end up back where you started no big deal. But if your tests with the word leads you to more truth and wisdom which strengthens your foundation of faith, you will never know it if you don't try.

#3 MamaElephant

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 02:09 PM

This is what a controlled belief is. Believe as we do or else. You are at a fork in the road where you have to make a decision. A fork that I know very well. One I took and made a lot of people mad but I don't care. I'm closer to God now and guess who they come to for counsel? Me LOL. Ironic.

Anyway, change is scary. But determination to find truth should overwhelm that to the point you should not be afraid to put your toe in the water to test it. I think God has chosen you for a test. Whether you pass is how you react in it. And the choices you make.

Question: Which is more important to you, God's truth or JW truth?

The reason you feel a pull in another direction is that God is calling you. From my own experience, I can tell you that if you refuse that call it will go away. And you will never know what could have been revealed to you.

But let's look at your situation. As long as you adhere to the word in your quest for truth, you should not fear. Test all things with the word. If what you test does not fit and leads you back to JW, then you just end up back where you started no big deal. But if your tests with the word leads you to more truth and wisdom which strengthens your foundation of faith, you will never know it if you don't try.

Thanks for your support. I completely agree with all of the above. It is funny, since I decided that I don't have to listen to what the men say I have been praying more often and singing praises as I go about the house. It is amazing.

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 03:44 PM

Thanks for your support. I completely agree with all of the above. It is funny, since I decided that I don't have to listen to what the men say I have been praying more often and singing praises as I go about the house. It is amazing.


Your heart, soul, and flesh are becoming more in tune with God's fellowship. So your spirit rejoices and it pours through to the outside. It's a sign that you are doing the right thing and the happiness it will bring you in the end.

#5 MamaElephant

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 04:54 PM

Your heart, soul, and flesh are becoming more in tune with God's fellowship. So your spirit rejoices and it pours through to the outside. It's a sign that you are doing the right thing and the happiness it will bring you in the end.

I know. Posted Image

#6 ikester7579

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:20 AM

I know. Posted Image


So what are you planning to do about all this?

#7 MamaElephant

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 02:34 PM

So what are you planning to do about all this?

Continue what I am doing. It seems to be working well. I am taking steps in the right direction and asking God for guidance.

I think that this scripture: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.--Phillipians 2:12 that you have pointed out so many times is telling us that belonging to an organization and doing and thinking as all of the people in that organization do isn't the way to please our Heavenly Father. Of course, everyone I know (except Orthodox and Catholics) will agree that we need to personally research the scriptures... but they seem to say it without applying it.

Right now I believe that no religious organization has everything right. 1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. and I see people like Fred and others that attend a church that doesn't agree doctrinally with what they personally believe.

I am pondering these things.

#8 rico

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 02:57 PM

Continue what I am doing. It seems to be working well. I am taking steps in the right direction and asking God for guidance.

I think that this scripture: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.--Phillipians 2:12 that you have pointed out so many times is telling us that belonging to an organization and doing and thinking as all of the people in that organization do isn't the way to please our Heavenly Father. Of course, everyone I know (except Orthodox and Catholics) will agree that we need to personally research the scriptures... but they seem to say it without applying it.

Right now I believe that no religious organization has everything right. 1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. and I see people like Fred and others that attend a church that doesn't agree doctrinally with what they personally believe.

I am pondering these things.

I'll pray for you too, I feel I can relate to some of what your going through, as well. Praise God for your venting!

#9 ikester7579

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:37 PM

Continue what I am doing. It seems to be working well. I am taking steps in the right direction and asking God for guidance.


Sounds good.

I think that this scripture: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.--Phillipians 2:12 that you have pointed out so many times is telling us that belonging to an organization and doing and thinking as all of the people in that organization do isn't the way to please our Heavenly Father. Of course, everyone I know (except Orthodox and Catholics) will agree that we need to personally research the scriptures... but they seem to say it without applying it.


When we go to heaven, there won't be separate denominations being saved for all their different beliefs. There is only one church, and one right way. Working out your own salvation, as said in that verse, is God relaying that to us. God is not going to condemn us for not having it right. Because complete truth is not obtainable. But what we will be judged upon is whether or not we tried to correct ourselves. Group salvation does not equal working out your own salvation. Your church, nor anyone elses, will not have any power in heaven to make a case for any of it's followers.

Right now I believe that no religious organization has everything right. 1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. and I see people like Fred and others that attend a church that doesn't agree doctrinally with what they personally believe.

I am pondering these things.


This is good that you realize that no denomination has everything right. What this will do is make you neutral, and you will be able to look at God's word with fresh eyes. And not eyes that already think the truth is known and therefore will make the word conform to it. you see the problem lies in being taught the word before you open it. This is okay to establish a faith foundation. But then, when the knowledge and faith are strong enough. It's time to search truth more directly with God.

Now should you quit going to your church? Not yet. Wait till God tells you and guides you to another church. This will show God that you will follow even unto the basics to where He leads you.

Should you give up totally on JW beliefs? Nope. There is always some truth in there. What you do is you let the "Word" slowly correct you. This is how God becomes the potter and you become the clay. What has been molded by JW beliefs can be broken and remolded by the potter Himself. You just have to be the willing clay.

#10 MamaElephant

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 07:19 AM

I must say that response surprised me, Ikester. I thought you were pushing me to do something big. Right now my husband says not to burn bridges.

#11 MamaElephant

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 07:20 AM

I'll pray for you too, I feel I can relate to some of what your going through, as well. Praise God for your venting!

This means a lot to me. Thank you so much.

#12 ikester7579

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 03:08 PM

I must say that response surprised me, Ikester. I thought you were pushing me to do something big. Right now my husband says not to burn bridges.


Not to go to quick. You can damage you faith if you try to change to fast. Yes I'm pushing for you to do big things. But at a pace where you don't get confused or frustrated. Those two things Satan can use as a weapon during your change. Go at the pace things seem to flow in. You push it and you will hit speed bumps. And Satan will say: SEE, you should not have gone down that road, go back it's safer and easier just to believe like everyone else.

As a special side note: The main thing you are going to have to learn is how to wait on God. God is never going to give you more than you can bear, or what might weaken you faith. God see's your heart through all of this change and He knows how much you can take to keep you safe and not give Satan a tool to discourage you. In spiritual warfare, Satan does not even notice you unless you become, or are thinking about becoming a threat to his kingdom. The first test is everyone coming up against you, disagreeing with you, trying to discourage you. How fast you move in this is determined by two things:
1) Learning to be humble about what you learn. No self exaltation but to always give glory to God. When you don't give glory to God it's considered taking glory for yourself. So like as you learn and are able to relay what you learn. And people ask: Wow, how did you learn that? You always include God as the one that you could not have done all that you have.
2) Learning to wait on God. God's timing is not our timing. There will be a point you will reach where information will flow into your brain faster than you can comprehend it. But in the begining it's slow and you have to accept that.

The testing. God is going to test you to see if what He is about to reveal to you, you are worthy to receive. You will get stuck sometimes. And in some levels of testing it will take longer. Usually the longer ones teach you more things than the short ones do.

The thing that will help you out most is to start keeping a journal of everything that happens while you go down this road. This journal will help on the days you feel discouraged by being reminded of what you have already been given. And it will help you in some tests where you might get stuck, to go back and look at what started it and see what it was you missed.

The more you can rely on God for what you need, the closer you will get. And the more personal this search for truth will become. Don't forget to pray, and don't be afraid to ask for what you want in this search for truth. Ask from the heart and God will hear you. Don't be afraid to become emotional while you pray for the wisdom you desire, it shows God that your are serious.

#13 MamaElephant

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 03:21 PM

The thing that will help you out most is to start keeping a journal of everything that happens while you go down this road. This journal will help on the days you feel discouraged by being reminded of what you have already been given.

Yeah, I pretty much use message boards for that. :lol: I really need to be more organized.

#14 MamaElephant

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 11:54 AM

My mom and her friends won't leave me alone. I am trying to decide whether to send my reply to this email, or if it will just make things worse:

We saw,before it was too late,what we could be 'losing'by continuing in the course that we'd been taking...of not attending meetings,and,got busy and got ourselves in gear and got back to the meetings,opening up our hearts to Jehovah's words of wisdom and taking our daughters to the meetings ...
I'm not on FB now,so,don't see your posts nor do we write emails on a personal ,regular basis ,but,I'm wondering if you guys get to the meetings very much 'cause when I had seen the last few 'posts' you had on your FB page,it seemed like you weren't speaking much about the meetings,experiences in service,etc. anymore.Are you guys having trouble getting to the meeting,etc.?I'll tell you,from our own experience that the longer you stay away,the easier it is to not get back,and,like I've told you.....your kids will get where they won't want to go,and,that ought to scare you,thinking about that,'cause I know you do
know it's 'the truth'and you surely want life for them,if not yourself. Don't 'fool' yourself into thinking that you 'still' are a Witness,if indeed,you don't attend our 'training sessions' at the Kingdom Hall for survival.Who knows when we won't have those 'training sessions' because of ban or outright persecution!!
If you're not getting to Jehovah's 'house of worship' and 'instruction for survival',do some hard thinking and reasoning with yourself,and,then pray your heart out about it to Jehovah,'cause 'the truth' is way too precious to throw away.(You know,by not doing anything,if that's the case,you are showing Satan and Jehovah how little your relationship with Jehovah and being 'a part' of his organization means to you.....snd,that's a scary place to be in,anytime,but,it's suicide,now)!!!! But,even scarier is the fact that it's not just you and your husband who are going to lose your lives,if it continues,but your precious children, too.....who are a part of you and him,and,who look to you for direction and to 'lead the way'.
I love you and your family, and just wanted to share a lesson that we learned the hard way..............if you don't go to the meetings and participate and be 'a part' of it,then,Satan will move in and influence you, him and the kids,too!Don't doubt it!
It happened to us,so,I know !!! I don't want anyone to have to learn that lesson ,and,maybe even be too late for your kids and husband,if you come to your senses!below is
The little thing below is a good reminder.........read it and meditate!
Love You 'My Little Sister,'

Then the brother said, "It is hard to catch a fish that is full". - Why?
Because when they are full, they are not as interested in the bait. Spiritually, if we stay well-fed, prepare, meditate, attend our meetings, and participate in the ministry whole-souled, we will be spiritually full and therefore Satan's enticements will be less alluring.


Interesting. You are going to assume that I have a bad attitude... but I have a closer relationship with my heavenly Father right now than I have had in years. I think of two different points about this:

I know of people who did all of the above as evidenced by their participation at the meetings and they were enticed by Satan's bait. Let's see I can think of 5 pioneers, one of which was an elder.

I don't see personal Bible reading and prayer in this list. Something I do a lot more of when people aren't scaring me with doom and gloom predictions of the Great Tribulation that Christ died to save me from. Something to think about.

Me, follower of the faithful and true witness.

#15 chipwag64

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 03:29 AM

This is an excellent thread!! Good advice from Ikester; and Mama, I had a family member who left their state of residence just to get away from a controlling church. I pray for guidance for you and wisdom in this situation.

#16 MamaElephant

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:47 PM

I just now saw this. Thank you!

#17 ChrisCarlascio

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:04 PM

I have family members who aren't happy to see me meditating on scriptures and connecting them in new ways. They think that I am not listening to God unless I listen to their overseers (the governing body of JWs). :( The funny thing is that the insistence that these people are God's channel and being compared to Moses is what pushes me away more than anything. Comparing them to Moses! Really, it is unbelievable!

It is sad that they think I am not serving God.

I'm not familiar with all the beliefs of JWs. Have you asked your family members to show you what scripture shows them these overseers are God's channel? Do they have a serious view of the scripture? Scripture is how you determine the truth from lies so I believe focusing on them should be your emphasis.

#18 MamaElephant

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 06:11 PM

I'm not familiar with all the beliefs of JWs. Have you asked your family members to show you what scripture shows them these overseers are God's channel? Do they have a serious view of the scripture? Scripture is how you determine the truth from lies so I believe focusing on them should be your emphasis.

I completely agree! The scriptures, after all, brought me freedom in Christ. My husband, instead, is focusing on the JW organization and what is wrong with it.

Here is a bit more about the JW belief: http://www.jehovahsw...ave.html(posted by someone raised by a JW mother and is now a Christian)

To sum up, they believe that they are following the scriptures, of course, and that other religions aren't.

In Matthew 24:45-51 and Luke 12:42-48, we read Jesus' illustration of the "faithful and wise servant" (KJV). In the Watchtower Society's New World Translation, this is rendered as the "faithful and discreet slave". Many may not realize that this is quite possibly THE KEY POINT to discuss when having a conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses.

The reason it so crucial for the average JW to have a correct understanding of the "faithful and discreet slave" is because he has been taught that his very salvation depends on it! He must identify this "slave" and faithfully follow its teachings. Concerning the "slave", the Society had this to say....

"The fact is, many things are needed to be a real Christian....a Christian has to recognize the AUTHORITY of the "faithful and discreet slave." (The Watchtower, October 1, 1991, pg. 20). In the AWAKE! (October 8, 1991, pg. 13), we read the following: "Thus, we are enlightened by God's answers to present-day problems, answers that reveal where we are in the stream of time and how we can successfully plan for the future. Those answers come to us through the channel of "the faithful and discreet anointed slave" class, WHICH USES THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY AS ITS PUBLISHING AGENCY."

They have a chronology based on prophecies in Daniel and Revelation which shows Jesus returning in 1914 and remaining until 1919 when some JWs were in jail, and they say that He chose them and they were thus released from jail. They have a ton of explanation for these prophecies explaining how his return was invisible yet perceived. Of course, the scriptures show that Jesus' return will be evident to all, but sadly, they are blinded to this truth, as I was not too long ago.

#19 ChrisCarlascio

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:05 PM

The reason it so crucial for the average JW to have a correct understanding of the "faithful and discreet slave" is because he has been taught that his very salvation depends on it! He must identify this "slave" and faithfully follow its teachings. Concerning the "slave", the Society had this to say....

So they believe they have to be like this "faithful and discreet slave" in order to be saved by God? "Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel (good news) which I (Paul) bring to you, which also you accepted, in which also you stand, through which also you are saved, if you are retaining what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly. For I give over to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that He was entombed, and that He has been roused the third day according to the scriptures ... thus we are heralding and thus you believe." (1 Corinthians 15:1-11)

Faith in those three facts is what saves us from sin, death, judgement, and the many other things that we need to be saved from. Christ's death, entombment, and resurrection. That's the good news. What makes God's grace even better is, "in grace, through faith (in the good news of Christ's death, entombment, and resurrection), are you saved, and this (faith) is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works (like preferring to believe over preferring not to believe), lest anyone should be boasting. For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them." (Ephesians 2:8)

Even our faith in the good news of Christ's death, entombment, and resurrection was a free and gracious gift of God, so that we can't even boast by saying we are smarter than unbelievers by choosing or preferring to believe when they don't. In his grace (unmerited favor), God has given us this faith and not them. Thank you God.

#20 MamaElephant

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 03:12 PM

So they believe they have to be like this "faithful and discreet slave" in order to be saved by God?

More than that. They think that Jesus chose a group of people to be that slave and we have to obey that group of people to be saved by God.




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