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Liberal (Free) Vs. Democratic Socialism


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#1 rico

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:14 PM

Philosophy of Politics

IMHO American Politics are difficult and tricky to understand. In my opinion political parties traditionally each adhere to certain ideologies more than the other parties. In a generic sense you have liberals (which means free, and is generally today, (not traditionally?)) associated with giving people more grace [seen freedom by them), were as the republicans are seen as more conservative oppressors of freedom. It hasn't always been this way. In my Government class, years ago, they talked about ideologies; One party favoring big business, the other small, One favoring the environment the other not, etc. (There is those voting charts we look at, ha!(laughing at myself because I have been thinking about Indoctrination vs. Education, and Churches saying they-churches shouldn't tell you how to vote - more on that in my question) But ideologies have changed over the years. One video that helped me to begin to understand government the way I could from my point of view is the American Form of government on youtube. It starts out with the Benjamin Franklin quote. I know understand republicans and democrats as the law and grace... So my question is: How do you go from being a liberal(democrat) to a Democratic Socialist (communist)? I was studying a lecture by Phil F. and started to think about Education vs. Indoctrination... I remember we read the book 'The Wave' in public (secular) school, maybe I'll glance through it. Just thinking out loud, Thanks. ...and also remembering that the U.S. is part of a silent holocaust - God save us, You save fetus'.

#2 supamk3speed

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:23 PM

You don't become a socialist in one brash descision. It is many descisions stacked upon one another, it always starts small. The small freedoms get taken away for safety, like them taking junk food and ciggarettes away. Or it's the govenment slowly moving it's way into business, like saving the big three. All the bailouts. It is forcing people to have car insurance or to force people into a healthcare system. It's "social" security, it has part of the word socialism in it. It is also saying that the rich shouldn't be rich because we have poor, we make enough money in our own lives to help poor people. I helped poor people while paying my mortgage and car note making just a little over minimum wage. It's their money, we ALL have freedom to make good descisions to earn good money. Most poor people are poor through pride (i won't work at mcdonalds!) or the fact that they do better not working and living off the system. A system that was only intended to be a safety net to help people get on their feet.

So how do we get to socialism? Slow change, that's how.

#3 supamk3speed

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 06:22 AM

I re-read your question, free liberal vs a socialist liberal? All liberals want to be labeled as the proprietors of freedom. But I see a lot of socialist ideas mixed with the freedom to be a burden on others,or in other words the promoters of irresponsibility. Like the freedom to kill babies, but ban guns because they kill people. Although 100% of the people I know who own gones haven't killed anyone, and 100% of the women that I know that have gotten abortions have killed their babies. I also don't understand how conservatives supress freedom, both sides suppress certain freedoms. It sounds like school indoctrination to me.

#4 rico

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 09:12 AM

I re-read your question, free liberal vs a socialist liberal? All liberals want to be labeled as the proprietors of freedom. But I see a lot of socialist ideas mixed with the freedom to be a burden on others,or in other words the promoters of irresponsibility. Like the freedom to kill babies, but ban guns because they kill people. Although 100% of the people I know who own gones haven't killed anyone, and 100% of the women that I know that have gotten abortions have killed their babies. I also don't understand how conservatives supress freedom, both sides suppress certain freedoms. It sounds like school indoctrination to me.

To add more to the discussion I found this:
http://expertvoter.o...ratic-socialism
I would think to want to give up your freedoms you would have to be hungry or poor?
John73's comment helped clarify;

I'm still confused, but Started reading John 7 and its helpful for me... I'm a sinner saved by grace

#5 supamk3speed

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 07:18 PM

I dont understand where you stand. God wants us to help people by teaching them, not just giving. Does a good parent just give their child anything they want? Or do they have them earn it? God is our father, does he just give everything to us or does he have us earn it? Socailism is "equality", treat everyone like the same make and model. Socailism robs God's creation of dignity and creativity. Socailism isn't a valid idea just because some are too lazy or don't care enough to tap into their own gifts. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

#6 supamk3speed

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 07:41 PM

I read the quote from John73. What he described is America's current situation "Socialism would require government control of all assets and economic activity". The government could sieze your property and has shown that it can put it's hands in business affairs. More control to the government is a horrible idea, the more control they get the more they seem to destroy our country. Lets look at their financial skills. We have a deficit of 14 trillion, so the liberals idea is to raise the debt ceiling and spend more. Let me ask you, say you owed the bank $1,400 dollars. Would you borrow more and then increase your spending? Or would you take the conservative approach and spend a little less on a lavish lifestyle to pay off your debts? "Don't worry! Lets just flip the bill to our children"(sarcasm). Tell you the truth im about hard work and fiscal responsibility, my children won't get the bill so we could have some luxuries for a little while longer.

#7 rico

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 09:17 AM

I read the quote from John73. What he described is America's current situation "Socialism would require government control of all assets and economic activity". The government could sieze your property and has shown that it can put it's hands in business affairs. More control to the government is a horrible idea, the more control they get the more they seem to destroy our country. Lets look at their financial skills. We have a deficit of 14 trillion, so the liberals idea is to raise the debt ceiling and spend more. Let me ask you, say you owed the bank $1,400 dollars. Would you borrow more and then increase your spending? Or would you take the conservative approach and spend a little less on a lavish lifestyle to pay off your debts? "Don't worry! Lets just flip the bill to our children"(sarcasm). Tell you the truth im about hard work and fiscal responsibility, my children won't get the bill so we could have some luxuries for a little while longer.

I wonder also about lowering taxes, it would depend on which ones you lowered. But couldn't raising taxes help pay off our debt -- But that too would depend on where they put the money?

#8 supamk3speed

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 04:44 PM

I wish it were just as simple as raising taxes, but there are many variables that could be effected when raising taxes. first off if we taxed people to the brink the economy would suffer due to less people spending money for financial fear. Certain things can wait if you are fearfull about your financial security. Also, it would spread fear through corporations who would be afraid to hire. The higher taxes would just be used for wastefull spending anyways, so giving the government more of our money just doesn't seem like a very intelligent idea to me. Taxing the rich like crazy isn't very clever either, the rich will make whatever cuts in their company to ensure their profit margins remains the same. The only option is to ween people off of the government programs and help people become self reliant. The handicapped and the elderly whom would obviously struggle working a full time job should be the only exception. There are other areas where we could cut as well, but I truely believe cutting down on spending is our only option. Or you could just take away freedom and force people to go a certain way, like hiring and telling your people where they should spend. But thats not the America our forefathers envisioned, the America formed under God.




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