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For Whom Was God's Law Intended, Israel Only Or The World?


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#21 MamaElephant

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 12:25 PM

You wrote that we should not be held to the same standard of conduct. Actually we Christians should be held to a higher standard.

Yes, I agree exactly and that is what I said. Look again.

#22 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 12:35 PM

who says that? calling sin sin is one thing.


put should we put to death in the church the pastor who was found in adultery?

no, calling it sin, justifying the death penalty in this case isnt wise

when you can show me in the early church paul killed men for the lists of sins in romans by his own hand then only then do you have a case.

paul didnt even push for voting into roman laws what he could have as he could vote and i doubt he wasnt the only roman christain

what you have said is and has been tried, in the days of the colonies men died for what you say. the salem witch trials ever hear of that.

and heres the list of sins that paul said warrants death.

romans 1:

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


so disobeying parents isnt worthy of death, yet h*m*s*xuality is? its the same list where you are getting this from.

so saving souls by laws is the way? jesus didnt come to make another form of legalism

instead this odd saying.

let
see

revalation 22:



11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still


why would he say if we are to kill them if they repent and we judge them. surely you dont see what i am saying, we are to tell them its wrong but not to judge them over it. calling sin sin isnt judgment as we know get to kill the sinners. you may think that.

but that defies what is stated above.

why would jesus say that?

#23 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 12:40 PM

i am not for g*y rights but in my state where until recently we had a law agaisnt adoption by G*ys., so how did they get around this? simple to men or girls live together unmarried and are h*m*sexuals and went to the agencies and one adopted them in his or her name they stayed together and the non parent supported the other and also was a parent but not on paper.

so what did that law acoomplish? nothing.

so should the church only let christian married couples adopt? what about those sinners who were heteros that adopted or muslims etc.

or what about those single parents in our churches? take the kids from them as well a family should be do
dude, i used to be a bi and i serve in the army. i know all about what is coming and i can at present speak out agianst G*ys as sin.

#24 Teejay

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:34 PM

[quote] name='Calypsis4' timestamp='1313180071' post='74040']
I will exercise my civic duty as a citizen to my country because it is only fair to the country I live in, but I have no biblical command to be involved politically or to join a political party. I will do what I can to promote public morality because I am a Christian and I wish to live in a decent society. But again, there is no command in scripture for Christians to be directly involved. Voicing ones opinion and voting on the issues is sufficient for our present situation, but remember that I said that the 1st century Christians didn't have either opportunity. They had to submit to tyranny whether they liked it or not & they had no voice in public affairs except through private opinions that were no doubt communicated privately.

John Bunyan's Pilgrim Progress has contributed greatly to my thinking in this matter. He depicted the pilgrim trying to escape the 'City of Destruction' (the World) as a hopeless, condemned sinner living in an equally hopeless, condemned society that is doomed to destruction no matter what the Christian does to resist evil. And resist evil we all should...but it won't change the final result. The world is going down; thank God we are not going down with it!

There are several candidates among the Republicans running for office whose ideas I can agree with in some things. And I will vote for the ones whose ideas are closer to the Bible than the others. But I hold out no illusion that any of them are going to turn America around. It's too late for that. This country will join the graveyard of empires sooner of later and though I will always favor that cause which is right and fight against that which is wrong, I don't believe America will ever even see another 'Great Awakening' as it did in yesteryear. I hope I am wrong.

As far as putting G*ys to death because of Moses law....think about it....why not go the distance? Moses law gave the death penalty for adulterers, fornicators, Sabbath breakers, b*stiality, etc. So why not kill them all? Let's therefore promote laws that will put to death people who live together out of marriage and refuse to come to church (I say this facetiously)?

Secondly, a question: since the church at Corinth had such ex-sinners in their membership then were they required by God to turn them over to the Romans for exection? Answer: No. of course the Romans didn't kill people for those offenses but that is besides the point. The church is not commanded to execute anyone; and...if the government doesn't do it then there is nothing we can do about it.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
[/quote]

Cal, you are correct that there is n equivalence between Paul's evangelism and ministry and ours today. Paul had to fly under the radar so to speak to keep alive. He was not a citizen of any of the countries he preached in. And he had no authority to enforce any death penalty laws. But today in America, we do have the freedom to influence what morality will govern us and our children.

A Christian can't really separate secular from Christian, politics from religion. Politics affects just about every facet of our lives. Just to list a few: Our churches, our children, our health, our money, our businesses, our freedom, our property, our schools, our homes, our security (criminals and outside enemies), our safety, the poor, the unborn, everyone, and everything and even our ability to preach the gospel. Our Founding Fathers founded this country on Godly principles. They held certain rights to be "self-evident" and attributed right to life to God. Take away Godly influence and you are left with godless laws.

We have taken God and prayer out of our schools and the results are teen pregnancy, school shootings, STD epidemics, lesbianism, relativism, and atheism. We are losing three out of four young people who are raised in Christian homes. Take Godly influence out of politics and you are left with Godless influence. Abe Lincoln wrote, "The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of the government in the next generation."

Senator John Kerry said, "I oppose abortion personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception. But I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on to a Protestant, or a Jew or an atheist. We have a separation of church and State in America." Sadly, most Christians can’t even answer this silly man's argument.

Religion is not the issue here. Abortion is a MORAL issue. Do we have the right to take the life of an innocent person? Now America's law says, under the Fourteenth Amendment, that we can't deprive anyone of life... without due process of law. But God's law trumps the Constitution with, "Thou shall not murder the innocent." I don’t like to use the Constitution as a grounds for any right. The Constitution was written by man. If a man can give you a right, he can take it away as well. Just ask the millions of aborted babies when we get to heaven. I like to attribute my right to life and even the right to carry a gun to God and His word. We can trust God to not break His word.

All laws legislate morality. Laws legislate one behavior right and the opposite wrong. You cannot not legislate morality. The question we are arguing here is whose morality will be legislated?

First and foremost, without God and His Word, no morality is even possible. Without a Moral Prescriber above man, no absolute right and wrong is possible. Without God, there are simply preferences. I like to have affairs on my wife and you deem me a scoundrel. You think a woman has the right to kill her child. I deem it wicked. Who's correct. Whether or not we kill six million Jews is where politics comes in. In Nazi Germany, there were only a few Christian leaders who stood up for righteousness. Dietrek Bonhauffer comes to mind. Whether or not we will allow one innocent baby to be killed is where politics comes in. Whether we allow teen girls to experiment with lesbianism is where politics comes in. Whether we can own a Black is determined by politics.

When it comes to these issues that affect our neighbors, God will not excuse us and allow us to sit idly by while Jews are being killed in Germany, while Blacks are being enslaved in the South, or while babies are being killed in the womb. Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

In the parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus teaches clearly that He does not want us not getting involved. The Pharisees who passed by the injured man had that philosophy. They probably had more important things to do like worship at the temple, or observe the Sabbath, or teach a Bible class.

Anyway, I think I expounded enough on this for one post. I’m getting tired. If I did not address everything, let me know.

TeeJay

#25 Teejay

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:40 PM

[quote] name='MamaElephant' timestamp='1313263541' post='74072']
Yes, I agree exactly and that is what I said. Look again.
[/quote]

ME, Sorry. I stand corrected.

TeeJay

#26 Calypsis4

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:57 PM

Cal, you are correct that there is n equivalence between Paul's evangelism and ministry and ours today. Paul had to fly under the radar so to speak to keep alive. He was not a citizen of any of the countries he preached in. And he had no authority to enforce any death penalty laws. But today in America, we do have the freedom to influence what morality will govern us and our children.

A Christian can't really separate secular from Christian, politics from religion. Politics affects just about every facet of our lives. Just to list a few: Our churches, our children, our health, our money, our businesses, our freedom, our property, our schools, our homes, our security (criminals and outside enemies), our safety, the poor, the unborn, everyone, and everything and even our ability to preach the gospel. Our Founding Fathers founded this country on Godly principles. They held certain rights to be "self-evident" and attributed right to life to God. Take away Godly influence and you are left with godless laws.

We have taken God and prayer out of our schools and the results are teen pregnancy, school shootings, STD epidemics, lesbianism, relativism, and atheism. We are losing three out of four young people who are raised in Christian homes. Take Godly influence out of politics and you are left with Godless influence. Abe Lincoln wrote, "The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of the government in the next generation."

Senator John Kerry said, "I oppose abortion personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception. But I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on to a Protestant, or a Jew or an atheist. We have a separation of church and State in America." Sadly, most Christians can’t even answer this silly man's argument.

Religion is not the issue here. Abortion is a MORAL issue. Do we have the right to take the life of an innocent person? Now America's law says, under the Fourteenth Amendment, that we can't deprive anyone of life... without due process of law. But God's law trumps the Constitution with, "Thou shall not murder the innocent." I don’t like to use the Constitution as a grounds for any right. The Constitution was written by man. If a man can give you a right, he can take it away as well. Just ask the millions of aborted babies when we get to heaven. I like to attribute my right to life and even the right to carry a gun to God and His word. We can trust God to not break His word.

All laws legislate morality. Laws legislate one behavior right and the opposite wrong. You cannot not legislate morality. The question we are arguing here is whose morality will be legislated?

First and foremost, without God and His Word, no morality is even possible. Without a Moral Prescriber above man, no absolute right and wrong is possible. Without God, there are simply preferences. I like to have affairs on my wife and you deem me a scoundrel. You think a woman has the right to kill her child. I deem it wicked. Who's correct. Whether or not we kill six million Jews is where politics comes in. In Nazi Germany, there were only a few Christian leaders who stood up for righteousness. Dietrek Bonhauffer comes to mind. Whether or not we will allow one innocent baby to be killed is where politics comes in. Whether we allow teen girls to experiment with lesbianism is where politics comes in. Whether we can own a Black is determined by politics.

When it comes to these issues that affect our neighbors, God will not excuse us and allow us to sit idly by while Jews are being killed in Germany, while Blacks are being enslaved in the South, or while babies are being killed in the womb. Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

In the parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus teaches clearly that He does not want us not getting involved. The Pharisees who passed by the injured man had that philosophy. They probably had more important things to do like worship at the temple, or observe the Sabbath, or teach a Bible class.

Anyway, I think I expounded enough on this for one post. I’m getting tired. If I did not address everything, let me know.

TeeJay


O.K. but if your ship is sinking and is now 85% under the water does it do a lot of good to polish the brass or wash dishes on that sinking ship? The logial thing to do is throw out life preservers and work for as many survivors as possible. One will not avert disaster under those conditions...but one can save lives. Transfer such a circumstance by analogy to our countries condition. Sure, vote, speak, persuade, and resist...but you won't save that sinking ship. I prefer to rescue as many souls to Jesus as I can because I learned by my experiences (twice elected to the Republican party in past years) that I could do almost nothing to effect change or even a positive influence.

I am only being practical. If this were pre-1925 (Scopes vs Tennessee) America it would be a much different situation.

#27 Teejay

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:20 PM

[quote] name='jason' timestamp='1313264435' post='74076']
i am not for g*y rights but in my state where until recently we had a law agaisnt adoption by G*ys., so how did they get around this? simple to men or girls live together unmarried and are h*m*sexuals and went to the agencies and one adopted them in his or her name they stayed together and the non parent supported the other and also was a parent but not on paper.[/quote]

If God's death penalty was enforced swiftly and justly, you would not have to post this or be concerned about it. Jason, stop and realize that the death penalty for verious crimes is not something I, TeeJay, invented. So don't attribute this death penalty to me. What I think or what you think does not matter one iota. It's what God knows is best for us.

There are many Christians who wrongly teach that the Mosaic law was for Israel only. Nothing could be further from the truth. If the laws were not for Christians or unbelievers today, then no unbeliever could be condemned by the law and there would be no need for Jesus dying for Gentiles.

The death penalty law was given to a Gentile (Noah) and not to Israel. God destroyed two cities (Sodom and Gomorrah) which were ingabited by Gentiles for the sin of h*m*s*xuality. God almost destroyed the city of Neneveh for violations of His Mosaic law but spared them when they repented. And He did destroy this city the second time when they refused to repent. Abraham executed those kings who kidnapped his family long before God said to execute kidnappers. Adultery was wrong long before Moses. Just ask Abemlek. Theft was wrong long before Moses. Just ask Rachel. Murder was wrong long before Moses. Just ask Cain.

[quote]so what did that law acoomplish? nothing.[/quote] God's law did not accomplish its intended purpose because we did not enforce it. "God's law is perfect, converting the soul." "The law is good if one uses it lawfully." "The law is our tutor to bring us to Christ. When men do not see justice on earth, they then doubt the existence of a just God in heaven. Not enforcing God's law hinders the Christian in the preaching of the gospel.

[quote]so should the church only let christian married couples adopt? what about those sinners who were heteros that adopted or muslims etc.[/quote]

The church should endeavor to help pass laws where G*ys should not be allowed to adopt. For the benefit of the children, married couples should be endorsed. When we fail to execute criminals, then we have to regulate crime. Should G*ys be allowed to be scoutmasters? Should they be wrestling coaches? Should they be allowed to adopt? Should they be allowed to marry? Can you refuse to do business with G*ys? Can you refuse to hire them. If we eventually legalize rape, then we will have to pass a law that one can't rape unless he rents a warm, dry hotel room. Let me give you a great example. God says that if you elect to keep a dangerous bull, for example, and the bull kills someone, then the owner and the bull are put to death. Now this principle also applied to pit bulls. These dogs are dangerous animals. God does not say you can't own a pit bull or even a pet lion or tiger. But God has one simple law. You can keep it, but if it kills someone, then you will be executed. In Texas, we do not enforce this one simple law from God. Consequently, we have to pass numerous laws to circumvent God's simple law: Your fence has to be so high. The gates have to be locked. You have to have him on a leash. And the list goes on. God knows best.

[quote]or what about those single parents in our churches? take the kids from them as well a family should be do
dude, i used to be a bi and i serve in the army. i know all about what is coming and i can at present speak out agianst G*ys as sin.
[/quote]

In my church, the pastor does not allow singles who are shacking up to sit on the front row as a bad example to young men and women in the church. He offers to marry them. If they do not want to marry, he tells them to find a new church. Paul kicked an immoral person out of the corinthian church who was setting a bad example for others.

h*m*s*xuality is not just a "sin." It is a crime for which God (not TeeJay) demands the death penalty. There is no such person as a bi-S@xual, anymore than there can be a bi-bankrobber or a bi-rapist. When a man lies with a man, he is a H*mos*xual. Now I am overjoyed that you have repented and become a Christian. But you did commit a crime for which you deserved the death penalty just as I committed a crime for which I deserved the death penalty. Both of us are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and you are my brother in Christ.

Most churches won't even preach against abortion. Why? Because they are afraid of losing members (and tithers) and they are afraid of losing their tax exempt status. But God does not call us to be tax exempt. He calls us to be salt and light to a dying world. We have failed to do this, and most of the crimes for which God demands the death penalty havebeen made null and void by a vote. My daughers is going through a divorce. Her husband is guilty of abandonment and this is grounds for divorce under God's divorce laws. She assured her lawyer than she had not once been unfaithful to her husband. The lawyer informed her than there was a time in America when this mattered to the court. But today, the court could care less, he enformed her. So sad. Who's to blame for this. The Church ann confused Christians.

TeeJay

#28 Teejay

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:30 PM

[quote] name='Calypsis4' timestamp='1313269038' post='74079']
O.K. but if your ship is sinking and is now 85% under the water does it do a lot of good to polish the brass or wash dishes on that sinking ship? The logial thing to do is throw out life preservers and work for as many survivors as possible. One will not avert disaster under those conditions...but one can save lives. Transfer such a circumstance by analogy to our countries condition. Sure, vote, speak, persuade, and resist...but you won't save that sinking ship. I prefer to rescue as many souls to Jesus as I can because I learned by my experiences (twice elected to the Republican party in past years) that I could do almost nothing to effect change or even a positive influence.

I am only being practical. If this were pre-1925 (Scopes vs Tennessee) America it would be a much different situation.
[/quote]

Cal,

When you get to heaven, you can present this analogy to the 50 million plus babies who have been killed by abortion and the 5,000 who are daily being killed in abortion clinics in America. They would probably ask you, "Couldn't you have tried to plug the hole in the ship. God authorizes lethal force for self-defense and in defense of another. Now he does not authorize you to kill the abortionist, but he sure wants you to do something. Throwing a life preservor to drowing swimmers is analogious to making sure the abortionist is medically trained and the clinic is clean.

TeeJay

#29 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:57 PM

so kicking the sinner out in church is ok? really

so are these in ministry?

i can see if they were in a ministry but sorry i disagree.its one thing if they are saved. but if not what is the point. i guess this site should ban the athiests that post here all the time and compluy with the tos.

sorry, killing G*ys wont stop this at all.

it would just reduced the number of then alive that is all. killing the addict drug addict doesnt save him. and all sin is addictive so kille them isnt what jesus had in mind.

only married couples should adopt, ideally yes but what i being single who isnt married and is a christian have kids that arent mine but are related and in abusive situations and the govt takes them and gives them to me. and this they do.

so i shouldnt adopt them. i am not for lowering the standards the problem here is this

the entire constutuion is banned in that case. why you would have not allow the other groups of sinners ie muslims et all to adopt. ie jews etc.


again this isnt going to work, read up on american theocracies that failed. its been tried in a more christian friendly era and it faile miserably.

how many wars were fought over the idea of defending the church from false doctrines ie the protestants vs the catholics. yes im for abortions to be illegal but i know if that did happen that s@x and the unborn children will be killed.


God judges not man in govt when it comes to some things. yes i would prefer a theocracy but it hasnt worked in the past we christians do well not to forget that, yes i would like us to return to the lord but reeally as a man whose lineage is owning slaves, america has never been faithfiul to christ.

the manifest destiniy doctrine
the forced indian removal acts
the trail of tears, these under some "christians" presidents.

i again dont think it will change does the threat of death make a man not an adulter.

lets say i see a good looking woman walk by and she isnt my wife, i lust but never act, i am an adulterer.

death?

by jesus words take in your view yes. there are those that strugggle daily with these and other sins.
would you be willing to pay even HIGHER taxes to house said criminals and not rehab them just killing them isnt going to change them. fear of death doesnt make a man saved. God does.

we arent called on this earth to judge men for their sins but to lead them to the cross, yes we should vote our worldviews. but your ways wont work.

death for this

lying
disobient to parents
the occult or in that list per romans and you ignored my comment quoting christ on revalation on the sinner and those holy.

so what if an H*mos*xual repents he then isnt given the death penalty, what of rape and or murder should a murderer be allowed not to serve if repents.

i am very much pro death penalty but i will support the serving of justice even if the the convicted converts.

so be careful in that, that logic would occur as well. so how could men like me be set free to tell the others about christ if i repent and die in jail.

#30 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 03:00 PM

i am appalled by some of this. not even buy from a known g*y bussinessman

so i hate to see what you would do if a g*y man found a cure for a disease that you had?

so how do you reach them? dont rent to them or buy from them just shum them and kill them and how will they hear the message?

toss a bible to them.?

im on a forum and one of the members has been beated and kick out of home for being a transgender by christians. so how would you reach that person? they live in fear and have ptsd from these things.

#31 Calypsis4

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 03:02 PM

Cal,

When you get to heaven, you can present this analogy to the 50 million plus babies who have been killed by abortion and the 5,000 who are daily being killed in abortion clinics in America. They would probably ask you, "Couldn't you have tried to plug the hole in the ship. God authorizes lethal force for self-defense and in defense of another. Now he does not authorize you to kill the abortionist, but he sure wants you to do something. Throwing a life preservor to drowing swimmers is analogious to making sure the abortionist is medically trained and the clinic is clean.

TeeJay


"Couldn't you have plugged the hole in the ship".

Then go do it, hero.

For my part, I will keep persuading people to NOT have abortions, converting g*ys from their lusts, and voting for right causes whenever the opportunity presents itself. Now, what's the problem?

#32 Calypsis4

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 03:05 PM

Cal,

When you get to heaven, you can present this analogy to the 50 million plus babies who have been killed by abortion and the 5,000 who are daily being killed in abortion clinics in America. They would probably ask you, "Couldn't you have tried to plug the hole in the ship. God authorizes lethal force for self-defense and in defense of another. Now he does not authorize you to kill the abortionist, but he sure wants you to do something. Throwing a life preservor to drowing swimmers is analogious to making sure the abortionist is medically trained and the clinic is clean.

TeeJay



Good grief. Are you kidding? How do you get that?

P.S. So go save all the babies so you won't feel responsible for 50 million aborted children.

#33 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 03:09 PM

"Couldn't you have plugged the hole in the ship".

Then go do it, hero.

For my part, I will keep persuading people to NOT have abortions, converting g*ys from their lusts, and voting for right causes whenever the opportunity presents itself. Now, what's the problem?

nothing from me.

what he suggest would be if this was to take effect in 1996 this poster would be dead and his brother may have never come to christ nor my dad. when God saved me , i lead my brother to the lord and he my dad.

#34 Teejay

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:04 PM

[quote] name='Calypsis4' timestamp='1313269038' post='74079']
O.K. but if your ship is sinking and is now 85% under the water does it do a lot of good to polish the brass or wash dishes on that sinking ship? The logial thing to do is throw out life preservers and work for as many survivors as possible. One will not avert disaster under those conditions...but one can save lives. Transfer such a circumstance by analogy to our countries condition. Sure, vote, speak, persuade, and resist...but you won't save that sinking ship. I prefer to rescue as many souls to Jesus as I can because I learned by my experiences (twice elected to the Republican party in past years) that I could do almost nothing to effect change or even a positive influence.

I am only being practical. If this were pre-1925 (Scopes vs Tennessee) America it would be a much different situation.
[/quote]

Cal, I apologize. My first reply to this was not exactly a good one. Let me try again. I'm getting tired!

You're right, our ship (America) is sinking. It's even worse than that. Our ship is afloat in a big toilet and God has His finger on the flush handle. We can't expect God to bless this country financially or otherwise when we are sacrificing 5,000 babies a day on the altar of convenience.

The purpose of this thread for me is not what to do now to save it. You may be right. It may be too late. But why is there a hole in the ship in the first place? I submit that it's because we have not stood up and proudly proclaimed God's law. Evidence of this is the respones I'm getting on this thread. I get very few Christians who will agree with God's laws. They are offended by His law.

The Christian church has circled the wagone and done nothing. While we were safe and secure within our churches, the h*m*sexuals were not ashamed by their bahavior and have not only come out of their closets, but are now marching proudly in g*y-pride parades, adopting kids, getting married, and chanting, "s@x by eight or it's too late" and "we want your kids." h*m*s*xuality and Christianity are mutually exclusive. One will eventually be forced to go in the closet. The Christian church has already surrendered.

Queen Ester and Mordecai were on a ship with a really big hole. Every Jewish man, woman, and child were about to be exterminated. But Ester and Mordecai acted boldly. They could have taken the defeatest attitude and reasoned all is lost. Let's just get in sack cloth and ashes and get as many as we can to do likewise. But they took action and saved the whole nation.

There is no man on earth who had more reason to give up than Wilberforce in England in his fight to abolish slavery. But he prevailed. I'm not against you plan to get people saved, but we do not have to give up in our fight to stop abortion, say. And we should be willing to honestly examine ourselves and see where we have gone astray.

TeeJay

TeeJay

#35 Teejay

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:11 PM

[quote] name='jason' timestamp='1313273378' post='74087']
nothing from me.

what he suggest would be if this was to take effect in 1996 this poster would be dead and his brother may have never come to christ nor my dad. when God saved me , i lead my brother to the lord and he my dad.
[/quote]

Jason,

God says, "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. THEY SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH" (Lev. 20;13).

Why are you offended by God's law above? I would like an answer.

A Christian should not be offended by any of God's commands. If he is offended, he needs to ask himself why.


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#36 Teejay

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:25 PM

[quote] name='jason' timestamp='1313272832' post='74084']
i am appalled by some of this. not even buy from a known g*y bussinessman[/quote]

Jason, there was a Christian couple in New Mexico who were photogphers specializing in weddings. A g*y couple wanted to hire them to photograph their wedding. On religious grounds, the Christian couple declined. The homo couple sued them. Should the Christain couple have been free to decline their business?

[quote]so i hate to see what you would do if a g*y man found a cure for a disease that you had?[/quote]

Would you apply this to a murderer? Using this philosophy, we could put no man to death because he may find a cure for cancer. Jason, you should think these positions through before adoptng them.

[quote]so how do you reach them? dont rent to them or buy from them just shum them and kill them and how will they hear the message?

toss a bible to them.?[/quote]

They will hear the gospel message while sitting in their jail awaiting execution. When a person is about to meet his maker, he is much more ready to ponder his eternity. But I've asked you this before: If there is no law against h*m*s*xuality, how can you convict his heart and convince him he needs a Savior? Please explain that to me.

[quote]im on a forum and one of the members has been beated and kick out of home for being a transgender by christians. so how would you reach that person? they live in fear and have ptsd from these things.
[/quote]

Would you bring him into your home to baby sit your children? If you would, then you are a fool and you are much nicer than God. And if God's law was obeyed and homos were put to death, then you would not have the problem you just posed.

TeeJay

#37 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:54 PM

well then i would hate to see how poor you witness if said son or daughter declared themselves to be g*y.

funny how in the past when G*ys were being killed by the so called christians they were always there. they didnt do it in the open but they still did it.

sorry,

so i see.

you are for an american theocracy with the first amendment nullified.

if you are muslim you arent welcome, jews as well. and other sinners.

dude, you havent a clue to what G*ys are. and no i am not one and but i do know from what i eperceinced i was looked upon as freak and i never would act the fool. so what about the cussers. the smokers those overwweight? the drunkards dont let them near your kids?


look i will support any reasonable laws against sin,

but to add and i know you will agree.


death and jail time for all sins. what culture would have if for every sin we did jail time.

it wouldnt change the world, if it did why then did isreal do what it did?

you totally think that we should go this far. i am not for this level,oh i know all about the g*y rights movement. i find insulting that you think i support g*y rights i dont.


i voted against g*y marriage in my state.
amdendment 2 defines marriage in my state but i am not so naive to think that G*ys will stop because of laws they will just go underground and the church if we let it happen will ignore them as sinners as well in the past we were such shining beacons of light.


surely if it was as you say when g*y s@x in texas was illegal why then did we have in hollywood liberace,others even earlier g*y and not hiding it?

clark gable was g*y.


i am more interesting in saving souls then america. sorry, this is a sinking world and God said that it would be.




(KJV)

one corinthians 7


30And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;

31And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

32But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:


so how then would any be in church to tell the lost about the lord?


who hasnt lied? served idols.

i believe idolators deserve death.

look i am not saying we shouldnt support laws but death?


most of the church wouldnt be alive.


paul murdered and you would advocate that he would be killed if we take the other sins today.

so in order to have church men and women would have to go to prisons to see these sinners. God i hope the church doesnt have sin in their lives.

opps, oh yeah churches dont sin. i have never seen that in any church i have been too.

no stealing, no gossip
no lying etc.


killing them agians doesnt make it go away just puts in hiding.

kill the P*rn pushers wont stop P*rn. people will sin and do it anyway.look i know a thing or two on law enforcement. the govt cant even stop duis, given on any holiday 20% of the drivers are drunk. so in that light do you really think that will stop sinners?

the war on drugs is a failure. people use more then than and i am not for legalistion of it all, but people will sin as that is the nature of it. perfection of america or the world by laws isnt going to happen.


vote for reasonable laws.i have signed the manhattan declaration, i know all about the g*y rights agenda far more then you think. i debatge that alot.

did you ever think to why the start of g*y rights occured in nyc, police harrasment. the police arrested G*ys for being g*y ,. no law in ny agaisnt that but they did it anyway so the G*ys protested in stonewall. it backfired. had they left them alone perhaps we might not have the g*y rights movement.they werent having s@x out in the open. or molesting boys.

#38 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 04:57 PM

ok. i know of the fact about the couple. i dont think they should be forced too. i have spent days on that but if one is a christian business what then of the heathen unmarried that they also too pics of?

or what about the other sinners?


sir, i repented by the reading or romans 1:26 the bible isnt sufficient to save?

#39 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 05:00 PM

i will respond to that babysit question with this. to be fair.

would you let your christian friend who has sin struggles near your kids,ie he gossips and etc.

i dont have kids btw mine are grown and are step children. if one my grandchildren came forward and said they were g*y i wouldnt approve of them but i wont disown them. they would know my story and how i repented.

its up to them if they decide to change or not.

#40 jason

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 05:05 PM

Jason,

God says, "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. THEY SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH" (Lev. 20;13).

Why are you offended by God's law above? I would like an answer.

A Christian should not be offended by any of God's commands. If he is offended, he needs to ask himself why.


TeeJay


my response is this
'
luke 9

52And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.

53And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

54And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

55But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

56For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village


so are you ready to kill men for rejecting christ?

i have served in war, ever watch a kid die i have.

would you watch him if said teen was g*y die but electrocution and he never repented.




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