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Jehovah's Witnesses At Your Door


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#1 Teejay

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:33 AM

Hello all,

It is said often that there are two sure things we can depend on-- death and taxes. But actually there are three certainties in life. It is not possible to live on Planet Earth for a reasonable length of time and not have a visitation of Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW’s). What should a Christian do? Slam the door in their faces? Sic the Rottweiler on them? Or invite them in for a cup of coffee?

All kidding aside, as Christians, we are obligated to witness to them (Phil. 1:7; Phil. 1:17; 1 Pet. 3:15; Psalm 119:46) and to defend the faith from outside attacks. But to do this, we must not only “study to show ourselves approved” (2 Tim. 2:15), but we have to be educated as to how our JW brothers have been deceived by the Watchtower Society. My experience with JW’s has been that there is usually a group of two or three witnesses. One, for sure, will be a seasoned dyed-in-wool JW (the leader) and one or two disciples (who are being schooled). While your chances of reaching the leader are slim, you have a good chance of reaching the new disciple who has not yet been marinated in the Watchtower’s false teachings. If you have “studied to show yourself approved,” you can instill doubt in his mind. The Holy Spirit can then work on his heart.

So, what I want to do here is present what the Watchtower Society claims and teaches to its followers. To avoid confusion, I would like to take one issue at a time and debunk that claim before moving on to another. To keep it simple, I will avoid in-depth history of the Watchtower Society. Except for pointing out prophesies that did not come true, the history of the Watchtower is not necessarily a good witnessing tool.

All false religions have a few false teachings that flash warning lights. And as we study the Watchtower’s teachings, we will recognize them.

1. The Bible has been misinterpreted .

2. No individual reading or interpretation of Scripture is permitted.

3. Salvation is not possible unless you are a follower of the cult and not Christ.

4. Jesus is not God “who is, who was, and who is to come.” The Mormons, for example believe Jesus is Satan’s brother and that He did not exist eternity past.

5. The Holy Spirit is not God, but is usually portrayed as a force or the Father’s spirit, etc.

6. Salvation is not by faith but by works and law keeping.

7. There is no eternal hell (as taught by Jesus). There is usually a substitute such as baptism for the dead (Mormonism), Purgatory (Catholicism), all will be saved (Universalism) etc..

8. Denial of a Triune God who is One in Three and Three in One.

The Watchtower Society

The Watchtower Society is the organization that governs Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide. JW’s are taught that God personally set up this organization as His visible representative on earth. And it is through this organization—AND NO OTHER—that God allegedly teaches the Bible to humans today. According to the Watchtower Society, people are unable to ascertain the true meaning of Scripture apart from the Watchtower’s vast literature. Other Christian organizations are deemed deceptive and rooted in the devil. Unless a person is being taught by the Watchtower Society, he or she can’t progress spiritually—even if the person reads the Bible day and night.

Not surprisingly, the Watchtower literature is replete with admonitions to only trust the interpretations of the Watchtower Society. If the JW disobeys or questions the authority of the Watchtower Society, he is assumed to be apostate. The punishment is to be shunned. This fear of disfellowshiping is one of the Watchtower’s most effective means of keeping its followers obedient.

While this unquestioning submission to the Watchtower may seem unreasonable and stupid to the average Christian, the Society often cites Bible verses to make it “appear” Christ’s followers are to do so.

Watchtower Society Claims That Must Be Debunked

1. JW’s are taught that the Watchtower Society is the “faithful and discreet slave” mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24:45-47 (NWT). Other Christian organizations are said to be represented by the evil slave mentioned in verses 48:51).

2. JW’s are taught that the primary teaching of 2 Peter 1:20-21 is that there should be no private interpretations of the Bible. Only the Watchtower Society can offer the true meaning of the Bible.

3. The Watchtower Society cites Acts 8:30, 31 (when Philip helps an Ethiopian man understand Scriptures to prove that people can’t understand the Bible without the Watchtower to guide them.

Let’s address one issue at a time before going to next. How would you address the Watchtower’s claim No. 1, that the “faithful and discreet slave” is the Watchtower and that you are the evil slave? Remember, the best way to debunk a false interpretation of Scripture is with the truth of God’s word.

After these three issues have been covered, I will post other arguments that JW's will present to you.

TeeJay

#2 MamaElephant

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:38 PM

Hi Teejay! I would be glad to use this thread to help others to witness to JWs. It is a desirable work, as JWs really want a relationship with God. They are willing to do so much and sacrifice so much to this goal. They want what Christians have and we can help them to attain it.

Your point #1 must be outdated because I don't remember the wicked slave being mentioned by the organization. Here is an example of how the WT uses that scripture:

“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics?”—MATTHEW 24:45.

3 Jesus himself pointed to the answer to that question. In the course of his great prophecy, he asked: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?” Then he said: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Yes, there would be a “slave” who had been assigned to provide spiritual food, a “slave” who would be both faithful and discreet. Was that slave a particular individual, a succession of individuals, or something else? Since the faithful slave supplies desperately needed spiritual food, it is in our interests to find the answer.--Watchtower 3/1/2004 p. 8

The majority of Jehovah's Witnesses cannot tell you what Matthew 24 says after the quoted verses. It is in fact a good idea to make them continue reading and point out that the scripture says "But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards," LOOK! SAME SLAVE!

And look! The JW organization uses the same illustration and applies it to individuals!

Really, is there any excuse for a Christian who neglects spiritual things in these critical times? If a youth like Biagio, adrift in the world, could appreciate his spiritual need for purpose in life, what can be said of a young Christian who fails to appreciate that need? Is not his situation a little like that described by Jesus in Luke chapter 12? There Jesus spoke in a parable of his return in our days and said: “Then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes. . . . Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him.” (Luke 12:47, 48) --Awake! 4/22/82 p12

These are the very same words of Jesus with a different interpretation from the JW organization.

If you search their literature you will find that Matthew and Luke are quoted and cited many times with the words cut off after the faithful slave receives their reward and commission. It is difficult to find the remaining verses quoted or cited at all, so getting the JW to notice the remaining verses is important.

#3 MamaElephant

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:44 PM

#2 Actually, I cannot find an example of this at all. Here is how the JW organization consistently applies 2 Peter 1:20,21:

The apostle Peter wrote in reference to prophecy: “You know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.”—2 Pet. 1:20, 21.

The writer was not considering the application, meaning or interpretation of previously written prophecies. The context shows that he was discussing the surety of the prophetic word, why Christians can depend upon it. (2 Pet. 1:16-19) He then pointed out that they can have confidence in the prophecies recorded in the Scriptures because their source was not men’s imagination but Jehovah God himself.

So, as explained at 2 Peter 1:20, 21, we can have confidence in the prophecies recorded in the Scriptures, because they are not based on a human interpretation of matters but originate with God. He is the One who, by means of holy spirit, moved his servants to speak and record them.--Watchtower 12/15/65 p.767



#4 MamaElephant

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:52 PM

Since JWs are very leery of Christendom and Apostates it is a good idea to use their own literature to show them inconsistencies. Here is a really good example:

Watchtower May 15, 1951 page 303

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Failed Inspection

Actual text: During the years of the first world war, 1914 to 1918, the remnant of spiritual Israel came under Jehovah’s displeasure. His kingdom by his Christ had been born in the heavens in 1914, at the end of the “appointed times of the nations” that year; but, under the great stress of persecution, oppression and international opposition during those war years reaching a climax in 1918, God’s anointed witnesses failed and their organization experienced a breakup and they came under captivity to the world system of modern Babylon.



Watchtower November 1,1955 page 633

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Passed Inspection

Actual Text: Since coming into his kingdom in 1914 and since coming to the temple in 1918 for the judgment first of the “house of God,” he has found this remnant of dedicated, anointed Christians doing what they were appointed to do. So he has done to them what he promised: “Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.”—Matt. 24:45-47, NW.



Watchtower January 15, 1960 page 47

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Passed Inspection

Actual Text: This slave is quite unlike the watchmen of Christendom that love to slumber. (Isa. 56:10) The “slave,” namely, the composite body of the remnant of Jehovah’s anointed, dedicated sons on earth today, is wide-awake to his Kingdom privileges, and diligently obeys his Master, Christ Jesus. He happily greeted the Master when he arrived in 1918 to judge professing Christians. It was at this time of inspection that the Master declared: “Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.” (Matt. 25:21)



Watchtower February 1, 1972 page 79

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Failed Inspection

Actual text: The Naomi remnant came into a condition like that, particularly in the year 1918, when they were, in a sense, exiled from Jehovah God’s favor. In that year Jehovah God came to his temple suddenly, accompanied by the messenger of the covenant, the Lord Jesus Christ. He examined the remnant here upon earth; he was displeased with them. (Mal. 3:1, 2) For a time they were not fully accepting the challenge of Jehovah’s Kingdom service that had opened up to them. They were holding back, through fear of man and were not properly keeping themselves “unspotted from the world.” (Jas. 1:27, Authorized Version) Therefore Jehovah let them go into bondage to Babylon the Great and her political associates.



God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached (1973) page 231

Inspection year: 1919 Result: Failed Inspection

Actual Text: The parable of the “talents” pictured that when the traveler returned from abroad he would settle accounts with them. This meant an inspection of them. Quite logically, with that turn of events in the spring of 1919, it would be the due time for the heavenly “master of those slaves” to inspect them. But what account could they render with respect to his “talents” that had been committed to the slave class? Any increase that they may have gained prior to the climax of wartime persecution in 1918 seemed to have been wiped out. They were as if they had no figurative “talents” in their possession at all.



Yearbook 1975 page 87

Inspection year: 1918 Result: FailedInspection

Actual Text: Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant,” Jesus Christ, came to inspect the spiritual temple in 1918 C.E. Judgment then began with the “house of God” and a period of refining and cleansing commenced.



Watchtower September 15, 1983 page 20

Inspection year: 1919 Result: Passed Inspection

Actual Text: Since the “master” found the remaining ones of this body faithfully and discreetly giving out “food supplies” when he arrived for inspection in 1919, he appointed them “over all his belongings.”



Watchtower March 15, 1990 page 14

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Passed Inspection

Actual Text: In 1918, when Jesus Christ inspected those claiming to be his slaves, he found an international group of Christians publishing Bible truths for use both inside the congregation and outside in the preaching work.



Watchtower May 1, 1993 page 17

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Passed Inspection

Actual Text: From the time Christ’s presence began and down to 1918, the slave class, despite unpopularity, persecution, and even some confusion, had been seeking to give timely food to the domestics. This is what the Master found when his inspection began.



Isaiah’s Prophecy II (2001) page 396

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Failed Inspection

Actual Text: In the modern-day fulfillment of these prophecies, there was an important spiritual development in 1918 in connection with Jehovah’s worship. Jehovah and Jesus evidently made an inspection of all of those claiming to represent pure worship. That inspection led to the final casting off of corrupt Christendom. For Christ’s anointed followers, the inspection meant a brief period of refinement followed by a swift spiritual restoration in 1919.—1 Peter 4:17.



Watchtower March 1, 2004 page 17

Inspection year: 1918 & 1919 Result: Passed Inspection

Actual Text: Of course, the majority of those who were to become Christ’s anointed slaves during the time of the end were not yet serving Jehovah when Jesus began his inspection in 1918. Did they miss out on the inspection? Not at all. The inspection process only began in 1918/19 when the faithful and discreet slave as a class passed the test.



Watchtower January 15, 2008 page 24

Inspection year: 1918 Result: Passed Inspection

Actual Text: When Christ inspected the “slave” in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual “food at the proper time.” Hence, Jesus, the Master, was pleased thereafter to appoint them “over all his belongings.” (Read Matthew 24:45-47.)


Note: Regarding the references above where the Watchtower failed Jesus' inspection, it’s important to keep in mind that no “refinement” or “cleansing” o even “displeasure from Jehovah” is even remotely mentioned in the references where the Watchtower is shown to have passed this so-called inspection (by supposedly “publishing Bible Truths” or “doing what they were appointed to do”).

see the source for more: http://www.jehovahs-...WT-PASS-or-FAIL

(If you want to have some fun, guess which JWN member I am.)

How to debunk the JW myth of the Faithful and Discreet Slave:

http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/doctrine-changes/myth-of-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave/

I have more on this central doctrine of JWs, but I will have to put my kids to bed and continue later.

#5 MamaElephant

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 07:58 AM

Not surprisingly, the Watchtower literature is replete with admonitions to only trust the interpretations of the Watchtower Society. If the JW disobeys or questions the authority of the Watchtower Society, he is assumed to be apostate. The punishment is to be shunned. This fear of disfellowshiping is one of the Watchtower’s most effective means of keeping its followers obedient.

This is true, but they have more effective methods. They rely on phobias to keep their followers captive. Here is a good example: http://www.jwfacts.c.../armageddon.htm

#6 Teejay

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 07:42 AM

[quote] name='MamaElephant' timestamp='1320032302' post='76176']
Hi Teejay! I would be glad to use this thread to help others to witness to JWs. It is a desirable work, as JWs really want a relationship with God. They are willing to do so much and sacrifice so much to this goal. They want what Christians have and we can help them to attain it.

Your point #1 must be outdated because I don't remember the wicked slave being mentioned by the organization. Here is an example of how the WT uses that scripture:
The majority of Jehovah's Witnesses cannot tell you what Matthew 24 says after the quoted verses. It is in fact a good idea to make them continue reading and point out that the scripture says "But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards," LOOK! SAME SLAVE!

And look! The JW organization uses the same illustration and applies it to individuals!

These are the very same words of Jesus with a different interpretation from the JW organization.

If you search their literature you will find that Matthew and Luke are quoted and cited many times with the words cut off after the faithful slave receives their reward and commission. It is difficult to find the remaining verses quoted or cited at all, so getting the JW to notice the remaining verses is important.
[/quote]

ME,

Slow down. I can't type as fast as you and I'm a dinosaur on computers. Just kiddin'! While you were a real JW, I am limited as to what I have read and studied over the years in books--such as "Kingdom of the Cults." The JW's are like the Mormons in that they change and adapt if one of their teachings are exposed or debunked. But be assured that anything I post here is from reliable sources.

You have posted some very good points here for everyone to read. When JW's have come to my house, I try not to be too argumentative. Rather, I think it is better to act naive and ask simple questions in response to their claims. While an attack will immediately put them on guard, a naively posed question can cause the JW to at least think about what he or she has been fed by the Watchtower Society. Most of the time Jesus answered the Pharisees' questions and challenges with a question.

The Watchtower Society is a human institution that does not speak for God. The Watchtower (as all cults) mistranslates key verses to support its authority. And if we dig into the history of the Society (and all cults), it can be shown that they change positions on important issues--at least outwardly (Mormons for example). Changing positions on important issues is something that a true spokesman for God would never do.

Let's look at Matthew 24:45-51. Here the Watchtower Society is not the "faithful and wise servant" of which Jesus speaks. What the JW's are practicing "eisogesis" which is reading a meaning INTO the text instead of practicing "exegesis" which is an effort to try to get the true meaning FROM the text.

Contrary to the Watchtower's view, Jesus in this parable likens ANY follower (Jew or Gentile)to the servant who has been put in charge of his master's househould. In this parable, Jesus contrasts two possible ways that each professed disciple could carry out his assigned tasks--faithfully or unfaithfully. In this parable Jesus is the Master and we can choose either to be "faithful" or "unfaithful" servants. But there is no getting around or behind the fact that Jesus' message is a call to every Christian to be FAITHFUL. Those who are faithful will be rewarded at the Lord's return.

So, here is where we can put on our "naive" act. Since the Watchtower Society claims to be God's collective faithful slave that alone guides people in their understanding of Scripture, and since this organization did not come into existence until the late-nineteenth century, we can ask the JW: "Does this mean that God had no true representatives on earth for the last 2,000 years? Does this mean that God did not care whether people understoood the Bible for all those centuries? Does it not seem unreasonable that God would wait almost 2,000 years before establising the Watchtower Society? And since there were no true representatives on earth until the Watchtower came to be, does this mean that God allowed millions and millions and millions of uninformed people go to Hell?

Now the leader may come back with a few cliches: "Well, God's ways are higher than our ways." To which we can reply with another question: "I agree that God's ways are higher than our ways. But if God waited almost 2,000 years to put a true representative on earth and allowed untold millions to die unsaved, wouldn't this make God's ways LOWER than our ways?"

And a killer questions I always ask: Jesus pointed out that "If I bear witness of Myself, don't believe me" (John 5:31). And in the Old Testament, it is written that one witness is not enough. "By the mouth of two or three witnesses a matter is established." So I always ask, "Who bore witness of Charles Taze Russell (Founder of the Watchtower Society)?" "Did he bear witness of himself?" "Did not Jesus say that if someone bears witness of himself, that we should not believe him?"

TeeJay

#7 Teejay

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:54 AM

[quote] name='MamaElephant' timestamp='1320032690' post='76177']
#2 Actually, I cannot find an example of this at all. Here is how the JW organization consistently applies 2 Peter 1:20,21:
[/quote]

ME,

You are correct. I will show in a later post how the Watchtower's New World Translation is inaccurate and misleading. Just to make it clear for everyone, I will quote the King James and the New King James:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Pet. 1:20-21). New King James

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (2 Pet. 1:20-21). King James

The JW's New World Translation renders verse 20 (as you quoted): "For you know this first that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation." Contrary to the Watchtower's understanding of the word "interpretation" it literally means "unloosing" in the Greek. The verse could be paraphrased: "No prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own UNLOOSING." In other words, the prophecies did not come from the prophets themselves or from humans, but ultimately they came from God (as verse 21 goes on to emphatically state). So, this passage is not dealing with HOW to interpret Scripture. It really deals with how Scripture came to be written.

Now the word "for" at the beginning of verse 21 carries an explanatory function, indicating that verse 21 explains verse 20 by restating its contents and then pointing to God as the Author of Scripture. This means verse 21 contextually indicates that the COLLECTIVE FOCUS of verses 20 and 21 is Scripture's ORIGIN, not its INTERPRETATION.

The word "moved" in 2 Peter 1:21 literally means "borne along" or "carried along." Luke uses this word to refer to a ship being "borne along" by the wind (Acts 27:15, 17). The experienced sailors on the ship could not navigate the ship because the wind was so strong. The ship was being DRIVEN by the wind. Likewise, the biblical authors were DRIVEN, DIRECTED, and CARRIED by the Holy Spirit. In view of this, 2 Peter 1:20-21 can't be used to support the Watchtower's contention that people should avoid "private interpretations" of what Scripture means. Such an interpretation is foreign to the context.

The Watchtower cites Acts 8:30-31 to illustrate that people can't rightly understand the Bible unless the Watchtower guides them:

"So Philip ran to him, and heard him [the Ethiopian eunuch] reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, 'Do you understand what you are reading?' And he said, 'How can I unless someone guides me?' And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him" (Acts 8:30-31) New King James

Now it can't really be argued that men sometimes need guidance when interpreting Scripture. One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is teachers for the Body of Christ. The meaning is not always evident as God does not make it too easy for us. Digging into God's word can be likened to digging for precious gems. If there were no rocks, the gems would not be precious. To help us find these gems of truth, God has given us teachers (see Ephesians 4:11) and provides the illuminating ministry of the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).

But nowhere do we find evidence in the Bible for an "organization" whose infallible views must be accepted by all true followers of God. In Acts 8:30-31, one man (Philip) taught an Ethiopian man DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE and not from literature designed by an organization. And after the eunuch accepted Jesus and got baptized, he did not have to join and submit to an organization--whether it be the Catholic Church, the Mormon Church, the Jehovah Witnesses or any other man-established religion. Salvation is through Jesus Christ only. This is a good point to phrase into a question for your JW friend or acquaintance.

I pray all this is helpful?

TeeJay

#8 MamaElephant

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:55 AM

While you were a real JW, I am limited as to what I have read and studied over the years in books--such as "Kingdom of the Cults." The JW's are like the Mormons in that they change and adapt if one of their teachings are exposed or debunked. But be assured that anything I post here is from reliable sources.

They definitely adapt. Hiding teaches or changing them. No doubt. I will do my best to help clear up things that either are no longer being taught or the average JW is unaware that the Governing Body teaches. Thanks.

#9 Teejay

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:47 AM

[quote] name='MamaElephant' timestamp='1320162951' post='76203']
They definitely adapt. Hiding teaches or changing them. No doubt. I will do my best to help clear up things that either are no longer being taught or the average JW is unaware that the Governing Body teaches. Thanks.
[/quote]

ME,

As I recall, JW's also believe in Replacement Theology in that in the kingdom they will replace Israel? I recall a visiting JW telling me that. I should have added this to my list of what cults have in common. Correct me if I'm wrong?

TeeJay

#10 MamaElephant

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:51 AM

ME,

As I recall, JW's also believe in Replacement Theology in that in the kingdom they will replace Israel? I recall a visiting JW telling me that. I should have added this to my list of what cults have in common. Correct me if I'm wrong?

TeeJay

Interesting that cults have this in common.

Yes, the JWs that are anointed and partake of the Lord's Evening Meal are said to be Abraham's Seed and replace Israel as the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. I could get into all of the wrong in that statement, but I will just say that this is what they believe.

#11 Teejay

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:26 AM

Interesting that cults have this in common.

Yes, the JWs that are anointed and partake of the Lord's Evening Meal are said to be Abraham's Seed and replace Israel as the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. I could get into all of the wrong in that statement, but I will just say that this is what they believe.


ME,

When I have a chance to interact with JW's, I put on my innocent act and ask: "How do you explain Romans 11:25-27?" When you ask this and read what God says about Israel, you can immediately see the average JW has no explanation. Sadly, I have encountered Replacement Theologists who are Christians--confused Christians who have also been misled because they have not consulted God on what He has to say.

TeeJay

#12 Teejay

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:29 AM

Hello all,

The next issue is an important one. During the Watchtower Society presidency of Nathan Knorr (1942 - 1977), the New World Translation (NWT) was produced and published. This translation was written to "restore" the name Jehovah in the Old Testament where the Hebrew consonants "YHWH" appear. This name is also inserted in the New Testament where the text refers to the Father (237 times). This was done despite the fact that it contradicts what is found in thousands of available Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the New World Translation is the best translation available today. They also believe that because they are the only group that refers to God by His "true" name, Jehovah, they are the only true followers of God.

1. The New World Translation inserts "Jehovah" throughout both the Old and New Testaments.

2. The Watchtower Society claims it is the best translation available today.

3. Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only ones to use God's proper name, so they alone are true followers of God.

ME, I wish I had a JW to debate these issues. If you have a JW friend, tell him he is more than welcome to come and refute our teaching on this. So, are the JW's correct when they insert Jehovah where the original Greek texts do not?

TeeJay

#13 Teejay

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:53 AM

Hello all,

ME, I don't know if you still use the New World Translation (NWT), but if you do, burn it so that it does not mislead anyone. The NWT is misleading, inaccurate, and it is heavily slanted in favor of the Watchtower Society theology. It is worded in such a way that it strips Jesus of His deity. (The Watchtower Society teaches that the Father is God Almighty while Jesus is a lesser god.) Nothing could be further from the truth--which I will show later in this thread.

JW's that show up at your doorstep will likely cite the NWT. It is very important that Christians be aware that the Scriptures they cite are distorted. So the first order of business is to enlighten the JW and show him that his NWT differs from the King James or the New King James. After we make him or her aware that there are differences, then we must be ready to show them the following:

l. We must show them what legitimate Biblical linguists say about the NWT.
2. We must demonstrate that the NWT translators were not Biblical linguists.
3. We must show that the NWT has gone through major changes through the years.
4. We must give specific examples of how the NWT has mistranslated key verses to support the Watchtower theology.

A google search reveals what legitimate Biblical linguists say about the NWT:

Dr. Julius Mantey, author of "A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament," calls the NWT "a shocking mistranslation."

Dr. Bruce M Metzger, late professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT "a frightful mistranslation," erroneous," "pernicious," and "reprehensible."

Dr. William Barclay: "The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their NWT... It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."

Dr. Robert Countess, who wrote a doctoral dissertation on the Greek of the NWT: "[NWT] has been sharply unsuccessful in keeping doctrinal considerations from influencing the actual translation... It must be viewed as a radically biased piece of work. At some points it is actually dishonest. At others it is neither modern nor scholarly."

British scholar Dr. H.H. Rowley: "From beginning to end this volume [NWT] is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated" Rowley also said this translation is "an insult to the Word of God."

It is well known that the Watchtower resisted identifying members of the translation committee. They claimed that the translators wanted to remain anonymous and humble, giving God the glory. But this anonymity also prevents checking the translators' credentials. But then the cat got out of the bag. A high-level defector (Raymond Franz)revealed in his book "Crisis of Conscience" the identity of the translators. The writers of the NWT were Nathan Knorr, Frederick Franz, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas, and Milton Henschel. Four of these five had absolutely no Hebrew or Greek training. Further, they had only high school educations. The fifth (Frederick Franz) claimed to know Hebrew and Greek, but under oath in a court of law, in Edinburgh, Scotland, he failed a simple Hebrew alphabet test.

Like the Mormons, the Watchtower is not averse to making changes to the NWT when it suits them. A computer search can give you the changes that have been made. But for our purposes here, I will give an example: The 1961 edition of the NWT renders Hebrews 1:6 to say that angels should "worship" Jesus, while the 1971 edition says angels should merely "respect" or "submit" to Him. By showing these changes we can help the JW to see that he or she is basing salvation on a translation that is evolving with the changing doctrines of the Watchtower Society.

Some examples of mistranslations to support Watchtower theology:

Colossians 1:16, 17: "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist" (New King James).

The JW's mistranslate this verse to make it appear that Jesus was created first by the Father, and then Jesus was used by the Father to create all other things. The NWT reads: "By means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships, or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist" (brackets appear in NWT). There is no justification from the Greek texts for inserting the word "other." Here it is clear the NWT translators have a bias goal to enforce their doctrine that Jesus is a created being and is therefore not God Almighty. But if Colossians 1:16 states that Jesus created "all things," then Jesus can't be a created Being. The alternative is that He would have had to create Himself. So we can show the JW that the Greek word "panta" means "all" things and not "all other" things.

In the foreword of the NWT, it is claimed that some words are inserted in brackets to make for smoother reading without changing the text's meaning. But as has been shown above, the word "other" in brackets changes the meaning significantly. The intent of the Watchtower here is clear. Their aim is to enforce the idea that Jesus is a created being and is not God Almighty. In the 1950 version of the NWT there were no brackets around the four insertions of "other", making it appear that "other" was translated from the original Greek texts. In 1961, the Watchtower inserted the brackets due to pressure from evangelical scholars who had exposed the perversion of these verses.

A good cross-reference to share with the JW's is Isaiah 44:24. If Yahweh made all things "by Himself" and did so "all alone," this obviously rules out the idea that Yahweh created Jesus first and then created everything else THROUGH Him. If Yahweh is called the sole creator of the universe (Isaiah 44:24) and if Jesus is called the creator of the universe (John 1:3; Col. 1:16), then clearly this points to Jesus' identity as God.

John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (New King James). The JW's NWT renders the last part of this verse, "The Word [Christ] was a god." JW's believe that because there is no definite article ('the") in the Greek in reference to Jesus, it must be that Jesus is "a" god and not "the" god like the Father. Hence they believe that the Greek text of John 1:1 is saying that Jesus is not God Almighty but rather is godlike, divine, a god. The NWT is incorrect. First, the full diety of Jesus is supported by many other references in John as well as the rest of the New Testament (see John 8:58; 10:30; 20:28; Col. 1:15, 16; 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb 1:8). That Jesus is Jehovah (Yahweh) is clear from the fact that the New Testament applies to Jesus passages and attributes that in the OT apply only to Jehovah (Compare John 8:58 with Ex. 3:14; Rev. 1:7 with Zech. 12:10; Isa. 6:1-5 with John 12:41; and Ezek. 43:2 with Rev. 1:15).

And then we have the wooden stake in the heart. Linguists have long pointed out that it is not necessary to translate Greek nouns that have no definite article with an indefinite article. THERE IS NO INDEFINITE ARTICLE IN GREEK! The noun "theos" (Greek for God) without the definite article "ho" (the Greek word for "the") does not need to be translated as "a god" as the JW's have done in reference to Jesus. "Theos" without the definite article "ho" is used of the Father in the NT (Luke 20:38). Because the lack of the definite article in Luke 20:38 in reference to the Father does not mean He is a lesser God, neither does the lack of the definite article in John 1:1 in reference to Jesus mean He is a lesser God.

A good point to use with a JW at your home is if John had intended an adjectival sense (godlike or divine--a god), he had an adjective ("theios") he could have used. But John says the Word is God ("theos"). John could not have been more clear.

Today, we have the internet and we can easily search and expose the mistranslations of the JW's NWT. Except for research purposes, the NWT should be burned. If kept for research, be careful that it does not fall into the hands of an unsuspecting believer or nonbeliever.

TeeJay

#14 MamaElephant

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:45 AM

Excellent post Teejay. The NWT makes me so angry! However it is possible to prove Jesus is God, even with the NWT, or my husband would not be a Christian today. Hallelujah! With God all things are possible. I will try to post on this topic, of how my husband came to Christ in this way... which scriptures moved him.

The best way I have found of proving the inaccuracy of the NWT is comparing to the Kingdom Interlinear translation also written by JWs. They were forced to show the Greek text for all of the scriptures, so that makes it easy to spot the inaccuracies.

Hello all,

ME, I don't know if you still use the New World Translation (NWT), but if you do, burn it so that it does not mislead anyone. The NWT is misleading, inaccurate, and it is heavily slanted in favor of the Watchtower Society theology. It is worded in such a way that it strips Jesus of His deity. (The Watchtower Society teaches that the Father is God Almighty while Jesus is a lesser god.) Nothing could be further from the truth--which I will show later in this thread.

JW's that show up at your doorstep will likely cite the NWT. It is very important that Christians be aware that the Scriptures they cite are distorted. So the first order of business is to enlighten the JW and show him that his NWT differs from the King James or the New King James. After we make him or her aware that there are differences, then we must be ready to show them the following:

l. We must show them what legitimate Biblical linguists say about the NWT.
2. We must demonstrate that the NWT translators were not Biblical linguists.
3. We must show that the NWT has gone through major changes through the years.
4. We must give specific examples of how the NWT has mistranslated key verses to support the Watchtower theology.

A google search reveals what legitimate Biblical linguists say about the NWT:

Dr. Julius Mantey, author of "A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament," calls the NWT "a shocking mistranslation."

Dr. Bruce M Metzger, late professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT "a frightful mistranslation," erroneous," "pernicious," and "reprehensible."

Dr. William Barclay: "The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their NWT... It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."

Dr. Robert Countess, who wrote a doctoral dissertation on the Greek of the NWT: "[NWT] has been sharply unsuccessful in keeping doctrinal considerations from influencing the actual translation... It must be viewed as a radically biased piece of work. At some points it is actually dishonest. At others it is neither modern nor scholarly."

British scholar Dr. H.H. Rowley: "From beginning to end this volume [NWT] is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated" Rowley also said this translation is "an insult to the Word of God."

It is well known that the Watchtower resisted identifying members of the translation committee. They claimed that the translators wanted to remain anonymous and humble, giving God the glory. But this anonymity also prevents checking the translators' credentials. But then the cat got out of the bag. A high-level defector (Raymond Franz)revealed in his book "Crisis of Conscience" the identity of the translators. The writers of the NWT were Nathan Knorr, Frederick Franz, Albert Schroeder, George Gangas, and Milton Henschel. Four of these five had absolutely no Hebrew or Greek training. Further, they had only high school educations. The fifth (Frederick Franz) claimed to know Hebrew and Greek, but under oath in a court of law, in Edinburgh, Scotland, he failed a simple Hebrew alphabet test.

Like the Mormons, the Watchtower is not averse to making changes to the NWT when it suits them. A computer search can give you the changes that have been made. But for our purposes here, I will give an example: The 1961 edition of the NWT renders Hebrews 1:6 to say that angels should "worship" Jesus, while the 1971 edition says angels should merely "respect" or "submit" to Him. By showing these changes we can help the JW to see that he or she is basing salvation on a translation that is evolving with the changing doctrines of the Watchtower Society.

Some examples of mistranslations to support Watchtower theology:

Colossians 1:16, 17: "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist" (New King James).

The JW's mistranslate this verse to make it appear that Jesus was created first by the Father, and then Jesus was used by the Father to create all other things. The NWT reads: "By means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships, or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist" (brackets appear in NWT). There is no justification from the Greek texts for inserting the word "other." Here it is clear the NWT translators have a bias goal to enforce their doctrine that Jesus is a created being and is therefore not God Almighty. But if Colossians 1:16 states that Jesus created "all things," then Jesus can't be a created Being. The alternative is that He would have had to create Himself. So we can show the JW that the Greek word "panta" means "all" things and not "all other" things.

In the foreword of the NWT, it is claimed that some words are inserted in brackets to make for smoother reading without changing the text's meaning. But as has been shown above, the word "other" in brackets changes the meaning significantly. The intent of the Watchtower here is clear. Their aim is to enforce the idea that Jesus is a created being and is not God Almighty. In the 1950 version of the NWT there were no brackets around the four insertions of "other", making it appear that "other" was translated from the original Greek texts. In 1961, the Watchtower inserted the brackets due to pressure from evangelical scholars who had exposed the perversion of these verses.

A good cross-reference to share with the JW's is Isaiah 44:24. If Yahweh made all things "by Himself" and did so "all alone," this obviously rules out the idea that Yahweh created Jesus first and then created everything else THROUGH Him. If Yahweh is called the sole creator of the universe (Isaiah 44:24) and if Jesus is called the creator of the universe (John 1:3; Col. 1:16), then clearly this points to Jesus' identity as God.

John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (New King James). The JW's NWT renders the last part of this verse, "The Word [Christ] was a god." JW's believe that because there is no definite article ('the") in the Greek in reference to Jesus, it must be that Jesus is "a" god and not "the" god like the Father. Hence they believe that the Greek text of John 1:1 is saying that Jesus is not God Almighty but rather is godlike, divine, a god. The NWT is incorrect. First, the full diety of Jesus is supported by many other references in John as well as the rest of the New Testament (see John 8:58; 10:30; 20:28; Col. 1:15, 16; 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb 1:8). That Jesus is Jehovah (Yahweh) is clear from the fact that the New Testament applies to Jesus passages and attributes that in the OT apply only to Jehovah (Compare John 8:58 with Ex. 3:14; Rev. 1:7 with Zech. 12:10; Isa. 6:1-5 with John 12:41; and Ezek. 43:2 with Rev. 1:15).

And then we have the wooden stake in the heart. Linguists have long pointed out that it is not necessary to translate Greek nouns that have no definite article with an indefinite article. THERE IS NO INDEFINITE ARTICLE IN GREEK! The noun "theos" (Greek for God) without the definite article "ho" (the Greek word for "the") does not need to be translated as "a god" as the JW's have done in reference to Jesus. "Theos" without the definite article "ho" is used of the Father in the NT (Luke 20:38). Because the lack of the definite article in Luke 20:38 in reference to the Father does not mean He is a lesser God, neither does the lack of the definite article in John 1:1 in reference to Jesus mean He is a lesser God.

A good point to use with a JW at your home is if John had intended an adjectival sense (godlike or divine--a god), he had an adjective ("theios") he could have used. But John says the Word is God ("theos"). John could not have been more clear.

Today, we have the internet and we can easily search and expose the mistranslations of the JW's NWT. Except for research purposes, the NWT should be burned. If kept for research, be careful that it does not fall into the hands of an unsuspecting believer or nonbeliever.

TeeJay



#15 MamaElephant

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:46 AM

I am going to start a thread about motivations and cautions related to witnessing to JWs. It is so important.

#16 Teejay

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:13 PM

[quote] name='MamaElephant' timestamp='1320587207' post='76304']
I am going to start a thread about motivations and cautions related to witnessing to JWs. It is so important.
[/quote]

ME,

That would be good. But just a suggestion: Why not wait until I'm finished exposing the JW's and then you can post on HOW to challenge them. For example, I try not to hit them between the eyes with a harsh argument or rebuke. Rather I think the best way is to act innocent and ask simple questions with Scriptural backup.

Next order of business:

GOD HAS OHER NAMES BESIDES JEHOVAH


JW's are taught through the Watchtower Society (WS) that God's true name is Jehovah. They are taught that the superstitious Jewish scribes long ago removed this sacred name from the Bible. But not To worry, the Watchtower has "faithfully" restored the divine name (New World Translation) in the OldTestament where the Hebrew consonants "YHWH" appear. The Watchtower New World Translation committee (who were not qualified linguists) has inserted the name "Jehovah" in the New Testament in verses where the text is believed to refer to the Father. The WS has taken this liverty dispite the fact that it goes against the thousands of Greek manuscripts of the New Testament that have been discovered.

When witnessing, JW's are taught to point to the importance of using God's correct name, Jehovah. The Witness will typically open up the New World Translation and cite Exodus 3:15 to the effect that Jehovah is God's name "to time indefinite." They also cite Romans 10:13 (NWT): "Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." In citing passages like this, the JW often convinces the unwary and biblically illiterate person that the proper use of God's "correct" name (Jehovah) is ESSENTIAL to his or her salvation. But a search of the King James of New King James renders their viewpoint untenable. Biblical evidence indicates that "Jehovah" is a man-made term;"Jehovah" or "Yahweh" is not the only name by which God is known; believers are uniquely privileged to call God "Father" and Jesus "Lord"; salvation does not depend on adherence to the name "Jehovah" but to Jesus as Lord; the New Testament consistently uplifts Jesus; and most importantly, Jesus never once referred to the Father as "Jehovah."

Jehovah Is a Manmade Term

This name is not to be found in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts from which English translations of the Bible are derived. The Old Testament does contain the name "Yahweh" or more literally, YHWH (the original Hebrew had only consonants). So where did the word "Jehovah" come from? The ancient Jews had a superstitious dread of pronouncing the name "YHWH." They believed that if they as much as uttered this name, they might violate the Third Commandment, which says, "Do not take God's name in vain" (Ex. 20:7). So in fear of sinning, the Jews for centuries substituted the name "Adonai" (Lord) or some other name in its place whenever they came across it in public readings of Scripture. Eventually, the fearful scribes elected to insert the vowels from Adonai (a-o-a) within the consonants, YHWH. The result was "Yahowah." The word "Jehovah" is derived from a consonant-vowel combination from the words "YHWH" and "Adonai." (Watchtower literature acknowledges this fact.) But what must be admitted is that Jehovah is not a Biblical term, but a man-made term and our salvation does not hinge on using this name.

We must be careful to note that though there is no biblical justification for the term "Jehovah," scholars are not precisely clear as to the correct way to pronounce the Hebrew word YHWH. Most modern scholars believe Yahweh is the correct rendering and we can't criticize the JW's for using this term in the Old Testament when the Hebrew consonants YHWH appear. Some legitimate Bible translators use "Jehovah" in the Old Testament as well. However, JW's can be faulted and proven wrong regarding the insertion of this name in the New Testament. Because many people have accepted "Jehovah" as a conventional way of referring to God, the primary point of contention with the JW's must not be the term itself, but rather how they use this term in their Biblical interpretation and theology.

Does God have other names?

Jehovah or Yahweh is not the only name by which God is known. Some examples are the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob; El Shaddai (Genesis 17:1-20); Lord of Hosts (Psalm 89:6, 8); our Rock; our Fortress (Psalm 18:21); our Shield (Gen. 15:1; our Strength (1 Sam. 15:29.

Jesus Never Referred To God the Father As “Jehovah”

If the JW’s are correct that God must always be called by the name Jehovah, then Jesus was wrong for He never once used this name when referring to God the Father. (Even though the NWT sometimes puts the word “Jehovah” in Jesus’ mouth in the New Testament, the fact remains that the word “Jehovah” does not occur once in any legitimate manuscript copy of the New Testament.) And as I recall, there are over 25,000 manuscripts of the New Testament extant for all to examine. One can politely ask the JW why Jesus did not start out the Lord’s Prayer with “Jehovah God in heaven…”? Rather, Jesus began with “Our Father in heaven” (Mat. 6:9). Jesus began other prayers with “Father” as well (see Mat. 11:25; 26:39-42; Mark 14:36; Luke 10:21; 22:42; 23:34).

As believers, we are uniquely privileged to call God, “Father.” Because we are God’s children, we can call out to Him, “Abba Father” (Rom. 8:15; Gal. 4:6). The fact that we can use the intimate term Father debunks the JW’s claim that we must use the term Jehovah “to time indefinite.”

Our Salvation Does Not Depend the Name “Jehovah”

The JW’s New World Translation renders Romans 10:13, “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” In citing this passage and others like it, JW’s say the proper use of God’s correct name, Jehovah, is essential to salvation. But the original Greek has no reference to Jehovah. Jehovah was inserted by the New World Translation translators. All properly translated Bibles read, “Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD [Greek kurios] will be saved.” And it is clear that this verse is referring to Jesus Christ. The New Testament consistently uplifts Jesus Christ. And it seems clear the JW’s insertion of Jehovah throughout the New Testament is an attempt to uplift Jehovah to deny the deity of Jesus.

Questions To Ask a JW

In whose name should we meet together (Mat. 18:20; 1 Cor. 5:4)?

Demons are subject to whose name (Luke 10:17; Acts 16:18)?

Repentance and forgiveness should be preached in whose name (Luke 24:47)?

In whose name are you to believe and receive the forgiveness of sins (John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 10:43; 1 John 3:23; 5:13)?

By whose name, and no other, do we obtain salvation (Acts 4:12).

Whose name should be invoked as we bring our petition to God in prayer (John 14:13, 14; 15:16; 16:23, 24)?

In whose name is the Holy Spirit sent (John 14:26)?

Whose name and authority was invoked by the disciples in healing the sick and lame (Acts 3:16; 4:7-10, 30)?

Whose name did Paul tell us to call upon (1 Cor. 1:2)?

Whose name is above every name (Eph. 1:20, 21; Phil. 2:9-11)?

The answer to every question above is “Jesus Christ.” These questions, if answered honestly, can get a JW to question what he’s been taught by the Watchtower Society.

TeeJay

#17 MamaElephant

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 10:42 PM

Thank you so much for that! I will print it out right away. I think it will help us in our witnessing for Jesus... like... tomorrow! Oh yes, things are moving so fast over here. You wouldn't believe it if you didn't have God's Spirit and know what He can do. Hallelujah!

#18 MarkForbes

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 03:27 AM

Hello all,

The next issue is an important one. During the Watchtower Society presidency of Nathan Knorr (1942 - 1977), the New World Translation (NWT) was produced and published. This translation was written to "restore" the name Jehovah in the Old Testament where the Hebrew consonants "YHWH" appear. This name is also inserted in the New Testament where the text refers to the Father (237 times). This was done despite the fact that it contradicts what is found in thousands of available Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.
.....

 

To my knowledge where the OT is quoted in the NT, the Greek word kyrios is used for YHWH. I noticed that, when fact checking the issue relating to the Hebre Names movement, which deems it holier to use what they think are the hebrew names. 



#19 driewerf

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 07:40 AM

Hello all,

It is said often that there are two sure things we can depend on-- death and taxes. But actually there are three certainties in life. It is not possible to live on Planet Earth for a reasonable length of time and not have a visitation of Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW’s). What should a Christian do? Slam the door in their faces? Sic the Rottweiler on them? Or invite them in for a cup of coffee?

TeeJay

iIf my memory is good, I would advice against the third option. JW's consider drinking coffee as a sin.






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