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#21 Calypsis4

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:33 AM

What would you think of a person who went to a college that was Christian and got the same degrees you have but was taught creation instead?
Would you deem them as educated as yourself or maybe educated with false assumptions and lies?

So when we see someone as educated as you by a college that is secular and will make all the evidence comform to that secular view we don;t look at it as really knowing anything.

All the degrees in the world won;t help you get to Heaven when you use them to claim or imply that God and His word are a lie. But then again maybe that's not your goal. Because if it was I don;t think you would be doing what you are doing and saying what you are saying. And do you think those degrees are going to matter to God on judgment day? Do you think they make you smarter than God to where you can correct His word and correct him on judgment day? I think you do. You have illustrated, implied that everything science says supercedes God.

Do you believe science supercedes God? If you say no then why not list the things concerning science that you would deem God more knowledgable on? You cannot because what you believe makes God weak and stupid just so you can look smarter along with your peers. You will never get that the reason we don;t get along is not because I am YEC. It's because when it comes to things concerning God, you will take the atheist side more than 90% of the time. And when it comes to making a choice on what you will defend, God or His word is not where near first on that list. You put science and evolution above God and His Word. Do you really think God is going to forget how many times you have dome this? How many times you have taken and made the new in Christ question their faith or even turn away from it because you imply that God cannot do what he claimed He did?

How you going to feel when you get to Heaven and find out that your copromise of God's word on several levels has actually put some people in Hell? You know that evolution has the ability to make the Christian question their faith so you also know what can happen when someone starts to question their faith. But do you care? No because you attempt that everyday here.

So you know someone can be made to turn away from God through evolution, right? So what makes what you do any different from them when you promote the same exact thing?

You know how I know how evolution is so dangerous? On other forums I watch Christians turn away from God. Many of them first choose TE before atheism. And what TE did was confirmed in their minds that their is no God which makes TE just a stepping stone to atheism. But do you care? I doubt it. Because if you did you would not be a TE because you would notice the danger just from observation. But let's be frank, you see it and don;t care because you are a part of it.

Now you can get mad all you like. But I have Fred's backing in this because he see's the same thing I do about you along with everyone else at this forum. You have slipped over to the atheist side so much so that you now debate just like one. You use their predictable responses. The only thing is you have not admitted it to yourself. Basically you are an atheist in denial. How many more steps do you think it would take from your current position to just be on the other side? One? That what I see,

1) You already believe their main secular idea.
2) You have already used that idea several times her to imply that God and His word lies.
3) You will defend them and take their side on every issue.
4) And I doubt you couls name even one area of science that you would say God superceded because you believe science supercedes God.
5) You use their arguments against God's word on creation. you also use it against the Christian faith.

So from that stand point what exactly is it that God is supposed to reconize you as being saved? And that is why we now see you as an atheist because we cannot tell you apart from them.


The entire T.E. (theistic evolution) position is predicated on the idea that God thought Adam and the rest of the human race too stupid and non-scientific minded to accept that the world has 'evolved over millions of years' and remained that way until Charles Darwin came along in 1859 to clear matters up for us. It is an implication that He lied and that Jesus lied when he confirmed the creation and flood accounts as given by God through Moses.

Good grief, the depth of the lie is staggering to contemplate.

#22 Geode

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:27 PM

Geode,

What you continue to deny is that the Principle of Superpostion, as it was originally stated, is APPLIED as a universal justification for a slow sedimentation mentality, that says one entire layer or stratum was completely finished, before the subsequent stratum was deposited. The experiments show that this is not necessarily the case, as we can see with our own eyes how a stratum upstream can be started while the stratum below it continues to build downstream--so that the two are contemperaneous, with parts of the upper stratum being deposited before parts of the lower.

But more importantly, the experiments show a mechanism for rapid sedimentation, and therefore an ACTUAL deposition process in water current. It undermines the thought processes that originally calculated sedimentation rates, and 'millions of years' geology.


No, the Principle of Superposition is not universally applied as you claim. Progradational sequences such as shown in the experiments have been extensively studied and understood and time transgression was identified and was quite well known and taken into account by geologists long before the experiments were conducted. I have already posted at length how Superposition applies to the sedimention experiments in the video. Superposition holds in them as it always holds true except for in-filling of caves, etc. I gave you a way of proving it but you said that you would not even though it would take less than a minute of your time.

The rest of your post is setting up a straw man argument of what mainstream geologists actually think. Rapid sedimentation is very well known in the rock record. It does nothing to undermine the concept of an old earth as all sediments were not deposited in rapdily moving water.

I have seen many YEC articles that assume that some strata were completely deposited, and even eroded befoe a later set of strata was deposited. They realize that all rocks are not the product of continuous deposition in their flood model. Does this make Dr. Austin and other YEC geologists "uniformitarians" in your opinion?

#23 Geode

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:06 AM

What would you think of a person who went to a college that was Christian and got the same degrees you have but was taught creation instead?
Would you deem them as educated as yourself or maybe educated with false assumptions and lies?


There are geologists who have degrees equal to or surpassing mine who are YECs. We hold different opinions about some of the same topics, but we do have a starting place in terms of knowledge of the subject. Too many others on opposite sides of the issue simply rely upon the opinions of others and what they have written rather blindly without thinking for themselves.

So when we see someone as educated as you by a college that is secular and will make all the evidence comform to that secular view we don;t look at it as really knowing anything.


I was first taught the YEC version of things in church meetings. It was later when taking science courses that I started to look at the actual evidence involved, and my study led me to believe that what I was seeing through my objective study of the evidence was an old earth. I came here to see if any ideas were being set forth that could convince me to the contrary, but did not find anything that holds up under scrutiny.

All the degrees in the world won;t help you get to Heaven when you use them to claim or imply that God and His word are a lie. But then again maybe that's not your goal. Because if it was I don;t think you would be doing what you are doing and saying what you are saying. And do you think those degrees are going to matter to God on judgment day? Do you think they make you smarter than God to where you can correct His word and correct him on judgment day? I think you do. You have illustrated, implied that everything science says supercedes God.


I agree that degrees will not get one into heaven. I do not imply that God and His word are a lie. That is just your opinion since I do not hold to the same literalist interpretation of the Bible that you do when it comes to Genesis. Science does not supersede God. In one way at looking at things God is the greatest scientist imaginable. He has a complete knowledge of science whereas man has simply scratched the surface of such understanding.

Do you believe science supercedes God? If you say no then why not list the things concerning science that you would deem God more knowledgable on? You cannot because what you believe makes God weak and stupid just so you can look smarter along with your peers. You will never get that the reason we don;t get along is not because I am YEC. It's because when it comes to things concerning God, you will take the atheist side more than 90% of the time. And when it comes to making a choice on what you will defend, God or His word is not where near first on that list. You put science and evolution above God and His Word. Do you really think God is going to forget how many times you have dome this? How many times you have taken and made the new in Christ question their faith or even turn away from it because you imply that God cannot do what he claimed He did?


I do not think God is superseded by science. It is more that God uses science due to His understanding of it. God created the universe and life, but I feel that he did so using his profound knowledge of scientific laws which he worked within to accomplish creation.

How you going to feel when you get to Heaven and find out that your copromise of God's word on several levels has actually put some people in Hell? You know that evolution has the ability to make the Christian question their faith so you also know what can happen when someone starts to question their faith. But do you care? No because you attempt that everyday here.


I do not feel that anything I have done will lead anyone to hell. In my experience the Christians I have seen question their faith came to do so because of conflicts they had between reconciling their religious teaching and their objective approach to science. They were from fundamentalist traditions that equated acceptance of evolution and an old earth with damnation. But Christ did not teach this. I work with many scientists who accept science as I do, but are still faithful Christians. They did not feel forced into a B&W choice that came from absolute insistence upon one literal interpretation of Genesis.

So you know someone can be made to turn away from God through evolution, right? So what makes what you do any different from them when you promote the same exact thing?


People can turn from God for many reasons. I do not promote evolution, which should be evident to anyone who has read many of my posts. I mainly post in defense of proper geology. But evolution is not the thing that turns people away from God in most instances I have seen, it is how the subject is approached and whether or not the approach is honest.

You know how I know how evolution is so dangerous? On other forums I watch Christians turn away from God. Many of them first choose TE before atheism. And what TE did was confirmed in their minds that their is no God which makes TE just a stepping stone to atheism. But do you care? I doubt it. Because if you did you would not be a TE because you would notice the danger just from observation. But let's be frank, you see it and don;t care because you are a part of it.


I care very much when people turn away from God. I have had discussions with a couple of friends that I think stopped them from doing so. I think those who turn from God because of reasons involving science do so more because they have been part of a fundamentalist tradition that equates being a YEC with being a true Christian. They were told to reject evolution and an old earth or they would be damned. But Christ and His apostles did not teach this. With study some come to see that the evidence is in support of an old earth and evolution and this comes in conflict with what they have been taught by religious leaders. Given an unnecessary B&W (“do or die”) choice about a subject that has no real bearing on their salvation, they reject what must be accepted by faith. I think they have been dealt a disservice in being told they had to make a choice like this one. I recently saw a paper by a Christian geologist rejecting evolution outright, but apparently he held to at least some aspects of an older earth. He asked why Christians should be known as people who refused to believe in well-known realities concerning God’s created world, and why they should not instead rejoice that God has allowed us to have the benefit of understanding so many aspects of His creation? I see God’s hand in all that I see in nature, as I wrote in one of my earliest posts at the forum.

But it really cuts deeply to say that I do not care. Has your hatred of evolution become more important than following Christ? That is basically the flip side of what you are stating about me in a few places. I don’t think this to be the case, as from your posts I think you are sincere in your faith in Christ. But so am I. Outside of science I have found that I often agree very closely with what you post in terms of theology. I am also sincere in my faith in Christ.

Will any YECs be held accountable by God for forcing an issue to the point where people reject Christ who would not have done so if they didn’t over-emphasize something that is not core to one’s attaining salvation?

Now you can get mad all you like. But I have Fred's backing in this because he see's the same thing I do about you along with everyone else at this forum. You have slipped over to the atheist side so much so that you now debate just like one. You use their predictable responses. The only thing is you have not admitted it to yourself. Basically you are an atheist in denial. How many more steps do you think it would take from your current position to just be on the other side?


I have never made an atheistic post. I agree with many atheists about some aspects of science, but in this regard also with most people who call themselves Christians. I am not saying that numbers make one position more correct than another, but holding to an old earth and evolution is not something that only an atheist does. I am not an atheist. I am not in denial. I am what I have claimed to be. I have been a TE for about 45 years and not rejected Christ. I do not think I am in much danger of turning away now. I have seen the fear in some YECs that to accept anything contrary to the core of that belief is stepping towards atheism. Yes, I saw my best friend do that when he decided that the YEC view of science was incorrect. This was not because of anything I said to him, as he rejected God during a period that we were out of contact. He felt he had been lied to about science.

In recent days my posts have probably seemed more secular. I have posted more just on science and not about religion. You are directly responsible for that. In one thread you repeatedly changed the subject from the OP to question theistic evolution. As I posted I was tired of posting on that subject after three of four replies, since it was off-topic and I perceived that there was no point in continuing as I had already said my peace about it there.

One? That what I see,

1) You already believe their main secular idea.
2) You have already used that idea several times her to imply that God and His word lies.
3) You will defend them and take their side on every issue.
4) And I doubt you couls name even one area of science that you would say God superceded because you believe science supercedes God.
5) You use their arguments against God's word on creation. you also use it against the Christian faith.

So from that stand point what exactly is it that God is supposed to reconize you as being saved? And that is why we now see you as an atheist because we cannot tell you apart from them.


1) No, the main “secular” idea that atheists hold to is a non-belief in any god.

2) I have never stated or implied that God has lied. That is a strawman argument imposing your beliefs in literalism as reality and my beliefs. If I accepted your interpretation of Genesis and posted as I do you would have a point, but I do not agree with your interpretation.

3) No, I do not defend atheists on every issue. I disagree with them about the existence of God which is their main point. You will not be able to find a post where I have agreed with atheists for atheism sake. Most atheists accept evolution and the evidence for an old earth, but so do most professed Christians. I have not posted in favor of abortion and other secular issues.

4) Once again, I think science does not supersede God. It is more like science is part of God.

5) This is just what I already was talking about. You apparently equate the issue of rejection of an old earth and evolution with being a Christian. I do not. But this is the crux of your post. The board has been setup with identifiers and “theistic evolutionist” is one of them. You have basically defined that position as being against God and the Christian faith. It has appeared to me at times that people holding to a TE belief are given less respect here than any other group and I think your post basically verifies that this is probably the case. You think we are wrong, dangerous, and threatening the Christian faith. Yet we are part of the Christian faith and have faith in Christ. If the TE "worldview" is unacceptable since it seems it must be wrapped up with "religious affiliation" and the selection "Christian" and "Theistic Evolution" is deemed to be incompatible, I think it is hypocritical to maintain such as a choice at this forum. This option should be removed and all of us who hold to TE position should be banned. Then your apparent wish to only allow conversations between “true” Christians (YEC only), atheists, and members of “non-Christian cults” such as the JWs and Mormons can be accomplished.

But as I already posted, having faith in Christ is far more important than differences of opinion about science.

#24 ikester7579

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:14 AM

There are geologists who have degrees equal to or surpassing mine who are YECs. We hold different opinions about some of the same topics, but we do have a starting place in terms of knowledge of the subject. Too many others on opposite sides of the issue simply rely upon the opinions of others and what they have written rather blindly without thinking for themselves.


Do YECs think for themselves? And is this a requirment for what?

I was first taught the YEC version of things in church meetings. It was later when taking science courses that I started to look at the actual evidence involved, and my study led me to believe that what I was seeing through my objective study of the evidence was an old earth. I came here to see if any ideas were being set forth that could convince me to the contrary, but did not find anything that holds up under scrutiny.


So what you are saying here is that the Bible failed you? That you could prove through man's interpretation of the evidence that God lied? It is what you are implying.

I agree that degrees will not get one into heaven. I do not imply that God and His word are a lie. That is just your opinion since I do not hold to the same literalist interpretation of the Bible that you do when it comes to Genesis. Science does not supersede God. In one way at looking at things God is the greatest scientist imaginable. He has a complete knowledge of science whereas man has simply scratched the surface of such understanding.


There is a big difference in interpretation and outright denial. It does not take a literalist to see that what you believe does not come anywhere near what Genesis says. And I have yet to see you or any other TE show me where evolution is even implied. And yes in your belief science does supercede God or the Bible would be your guide and no science.

I do not think God is superseded by science. It is more that God uses science due to His understanding of it. God created the universe and life, but I feel that he did so using his profound knowledge of scientific laws which he worked within to accomplish creation.


Evolution is the direct opposite of the creation event. So if you are so intent in denying God's creation through it and think that you will still end up in Heaven when you sin wilfully and without remorse then you will be sadly mistaken.

I do not feel that anything I have done will lead anyone to hell. In my experience the Christians I have seen question their faith came to do so because of conflicts they had between reconciling their religious teaching and their objective approach to science. They were from fundamentalist traditions that equated acceptance of evolution and an old earth with damnation. But Christ did not teach this. I work with many scientists who accept science as I do, but are still faithful Christians. They did not feel forced into a B&W choice that came from absolute insistence upon one literal interpretation of Genesis.


And Christ did not teach evolution either. But spoken like a true atheist though. It always the fanactics fault not yours.

People can turn from God for many reasons. I do not promote evolution, which should be evident to anyone who has read many of my posts. I mainly post in defense of proper geology. But evolution is not the thing that turns people away from God in most instances I have seen, it is how the subject is approached and whether or not the approach is honest.


There are many including me that would disagree with that claim.

I care very much when people turn away from God. I have had discussions with a couple of friends that I think stopped them from doing so. I think those who turn from God because of reasons involving science do so more because they have been part of a fundamentalist tradition that equates being a YEC with being a true Christian. They were told to reject evolution and an old earth or they would be damned. But Christ and His apostles did not teach this. With study some come to see that the evidence is in support of an old earth and evolution and this comes in conflict with what they have been taught by religious leaders. Given an unnecessary B&W (“do or die”) choice about a subject that has no real bearing on their salvation, they reject what must be accepted by faith. I think they have been dealt a disservice in being told they had to make a choice like this one. I recently saw a paper by a Christian geologist rejecting evolution outright, but apparently he held to at least some aspects of an older earth. He asked why Christians should be known as people who refused to believe in well-known realities concerning God’s created world, and why they should not instead rejoice that God has allowed us to have the benefit of understanding so many aspects of His creation? I see God’s hand in all that I see in nature, as I wrote in one of my earliest posts at the forum.


And this is one of the reasons you will be banned from the forum. You are anti-YEC and like every evolutionist-atheist believe that YECs cause all the problems that exist. I knew that all I had to do was corner you and the truth would come out,

But it really cuts deeply to say that I do not care. Has your hatred of evolution become more important than following Christ? That is basically the flip side of what you are stating about me in a few places. I don’t think this to be the case, as from your posts I think you are sincere in your faith in Christ. But so am I. Outside of science I have found that I often agree very closely with what you post in terms of theology. I am also sincere in my faith in Christ.


I don;t think you are sincere is the problem.

Will any YECs be held accountable by God for forcing an issue to the point where people reject Christ who would not have done so if they didn’t over-emphasize something that is not core to one’s attaining salvation?


As much as any TE will be made accountable for making people doubt the power of God and the truthfulness of his word. Your attempt to lay blame and guilt is lame.

I have never made an atheistic post. I agree with many atheists about some aspects of science, but in this regard also with most people who call themselves Christians. I am not saying that numbers make one position more correct than another, but holding to an old earth and evolution is not something that only an atheist does. I am not an atheist. I am not in denial. I am what I have claimed to be. I have been a TE for about 45 years and not rejected Christ. I do not think I am in much danger of turning away now. I have seen the fear in some YECs that to accept anything contrary to the core of that belief is stepping towards atheism. Yes, I saw my best friend do that when he decided that the YEC view of science was incorrect. This was not because of anything I said to him, as he rejected God during a period that we were out of contact. He felt he had been lied to about science.


Well now I think you are lying here. You have done everything else to indicate atheist why not now make false claims to make yourself and your worldview look better than anything else that exists. At least I know when I get judged by God's word what I believed can be found in God's word. What you believe about origins is written no where and you know that. And because you know that there will be no excuse. Because God will say: It is written and you read it. Why did you not believe it? And regardless of what you claim God will say: I told you to have faith.

In recent days my posts have probably seemed more secular. I have posted more just on science and not about religion. You are directly responsible for that. In one thread you repeatedly changed the subject from the OP to question theistic evolution. As I posted I was tired of posting on that subject after three of four replies, since it was off-topic and I perceived that there was no point in continuing as I had already said my peace about it there.


Yeah it all my fault. It's always the YECs fault right?

1) No, the main “secular” idea that atheists hold to is a non-belief in any god.

2) I have never stated or implied that God has lied. That is a strawman argument imposing your beliefs in literalism as reality and my beliefs. If I accepted your interpretation of Genesis and posted as I do you would have a point, but I do not agree with your interpretation.

3) No, I do not defend atheists on every issue. I disagree with them about the existence of God which is their main point. You will not be able to find a post where I have agreed with atheists for atheism sake. Most atheists accept evolution and the evidence for an old earth, but so do most professed Christians. I have not posted in favor of abortion and other secular issues.

4) Once again, I think science does not supersede God. It is more like science is part of God.

5) This is just what I already was talking about. You apparently equate the issue of rejection of an old earth and evolution with being a Christian. I do not. But this is the crux of your post. The board has been setup with identifiers and “theistic evolutionist” is one of them. You have basically defined that position as being against God and the Christian faith. It has appeared to me at times that people holding to a TE belief are given less respect here than any other group and I think your post basically verifies that this is probably the case. You think we are wrong, dangerous, and threatening the Christian faith. Yet we are part of the Christian faith and have faith in Christ. If the TE "worldview" is unacceptable since it seems it must be wrapped up with "religious affiliation" and the selection "Christian" and "Theistic Evolution" is deemed to be incompatible, I think it is hypocritical to maintain such as a choice at this forum. This option should be removed and all of us who hold to TE position should be banned. Then your apparent wish to only allow conversations between “true” Christians (YEC only), atheists, and members of “non-Christian cults” such as the JWs and Mormons can be accomplished.

But as I already posted, having faith in Christ is far more important than differences of opinion about science.


Everything you claim I can counter with stuff you have said. But because you are in total denial I'm not going to waste my time posting what you will totally ignore or make lame excuses for.

#25 Salsa

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:06 AM

But as I already posted, having faith in Christ is far more important than differences of opinion about science.


Geode, that might seem like a good argument. However, and this is vitaly important to understand, it is only important on a personal level. Your own salvation might be intact, but the instant you step out of that circle and try to influence others to accept something that contradicts scripture then you it is no longer a personal matter, and as such it is not unimportant.

Many, many people are rejecting the Christian faith simply because they are subjected to the idea that the Bible is disproven by science. You need only see how effective the educational system has become at swallowing young Christians and churning out atheits.

In light of that I don't think this issue can be shrugged of as though it were unimportant, or that it is unattached from "faith in Christ".

#26 jason

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:15 AM

with te's i find that they put the word of darwin above god. the problem for them is that if the word day is a literaly day as written then thats what it means. theres no way around it. it as ike said. god second evolution first.


on the other forum i have a te dancing around that fact. he just tried to tell me that jews believe in evolution and i clarified i listen to what the ancient sages said and they verified what we read! the sages put the tanach together and also are considered the acient versions of our commentaries. not perfect nor god but they do have their place

#27 Calypsis4

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:43 AM

"And this is one of the reasons you will be banned from the forum"

Amen! Glad to see it.

#28 JayShel

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 09:11 AM

Rapid sedimentation is very well known in the rock record. It does nothing to undermine the concept of an old earth as all sediments were not deposited in rapdily moving water.

I have seen many YEC articles that assume that some strata were completely deposited, and even eroded befoe a later set of strata was deposited. They realize that all rocks are not the product of continuous deposition in their flood model. Does this make Dr. Austin and other YEC geologists "uniformitarians" in your opinion?



There are people on both sides of the fence that have not done their homework, but then again scientific knowledge is always shifting, with cutting edge articles showing up that are later retracted. I wouldn't say that this makes one position weaker, but it does take constant research to stay up on scientific knowledge, and to remain relevant. YEC today have a knowlege that there was heavy volcanic and tectonic activity during the flood that affected deposition, in addition to the tsunamis and rain.

I do not think God is superseded by science. It is more that God uses science due to His understanding of it. God created the universe and life, but I feel that he did so using his profound knowledge of scientific laws which he worked within to accomplish creation.


I think human's knowledge is often very flawed. Even with the invention of new complex machinery, we draw conclusions based on our biases. We will only see the full picture from Heaven. In the mean time, the Bible gives clues as to where to look to find truth in science. Creationists are mocked for this, but it is no worse than relying on secular materialistic uniformitarian biases to find the truth.

#29 Calypsis4

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:02 PM

Ikster was perfrectly justified in eliminating geode from Evolution Fairytale Forum. He had it coming. Though he has been here a long time posting his views he has been shown the truth repeatedly and rejected even the most sound evidence against his position, arrogantly using the same tortured logic to defend evolution over and over again. My experience with geode goes back almost five years to the time he was a wild man posting on imdb (Internet Movie Data Base) The Passion of the Christ thread. But no matter how evil and nasty the atheist/evolutionist element on that website was and how awful their hateful remarks against us (creationists/literalists) were he would take up sides with them against us. Talk about a Judas Iscariot...

During that time he belittled me and other posters, including one named knightinblackleather, (the best non-scientist defender of six day creationism I have ever seen) and he even insulted my physique. I'm no Brad Pitt but there is nothing odd about my physical appearance. But that showed me and my companions how much he hated 6 day creationists and our beliefs about Genesis. So there comes a point when there is no use debating with such a person any longer.

One last thing: I got so distressed at seeing how the atheists and theistic evos (geode included) were running slip-shod over every professing believer on imdb (The Passion in particular) that one Friday night in the spring of 2006, after being challenged by an obnoxious atheist to 'pray that God get rid of all of us' on that same thread...I did so. The next morning I discovered that the entire group had been transferred to what is now the Religion section of imdb. Wow. Thank God. I am not sure but I think one can check the archives of imdb to find that transfer. I might be wrong on the date but it happened and geode remembers it.

A few days before geode got the boot I was reading the post of another skeptic elsewhere bellyaching about how 'Ron' ...'couldn't handle what I was saying so he kicked me off Evolution Fairytale.' Let such people whine and complain. If they can't handle being told the truth and they only wish to argue endlessly after being shown the evidence for and facts revealing the truth of God's Word....then (in the words of Chaucer) let the boote be uproote! :gigglesmile:

#30 jason

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:09 PM

its sad that he is like that but i only saw what i saw here. he wouldnt take what the bible says. it doesnt allow deviations of word meanings and context.

#31 jason777

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:19 PM

From what I'm gathering from it, the TE's will eventually betray the God they claim exists when it comes down to compromising their faith in evolution.

#32 jason

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 01:22 PM

sadly that seems to be the case. that is why im against that. you cant have it both ways. the god they portray is a diest view of him with a tinge of christianity. the more i learn about ancient hebrew thought and it what the bible says the more i realize that like the faithful jews we should view the world through the lens of the bible and not the other way around.

#33 Calypsis4

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:17 PM

From what I'm gathering from it, the TE's will eventually betray the God they claim exists when it comes down to compromising their faith in evolution.


I agree Jason. But there are exceptions. I was a theistic evolutionist as a young man and I defended Darwinism fervently. It took a patient man (my cousin) with solid evidence from both scripture and science to convince me to toss out evolution altogether.

Best wishes, friend. I really enjoy reading your posts.

#34 jason

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:13 PM

I agree Jason. But there are exceptions. I was a theistic evolutionist as a young man and I defended Darwinism fervently. It took a patient man (my cousin) with solid evidence from both scripture and science to convince me to toss out evolution altogether.

Best wishes, friend. I really enjoy reading your posts.


and some say that its by a religious filter that we deny evolution




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