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Pre-Trib, Mid Trib, And Post Trib.

Raptures

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#1 ikester7579

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:51 AM

Pre-trib rapture aka rapture of the church is the meeting in the air:

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is also known as the thief in the night that grabs people.

1thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Mid trib rapture is when the ones who stood up for Christ were beheaded by the anti-christ:

Revelation 4: 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Post trib rapture are for those who survived the 7 year tribulation some how and were taken up.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What are the conditions of the pre-trib rapture that starts the 7 year tribulation?

2 Thess 3:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The falling away is where Christians buy into false doctrines that basically mock God and make people err from the truth. They do this to feed their fleshly wants because todays churches do not teach how to die to the flesh so that the spirit can be strengthened. Instead they feed the flesh becoming part of the problem.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

etc...

Why 3 raptures?

1) It's a trinity.
2) It's supported in scripture.
3) The OT had 3 raptures. The 2 prophets Elijah and Elisha, and the saints who rose from their graves during Christ's ressurection.

So basically the OT has a trinity of raptures and the NT has a trinity of raptures. Also, I don;t remember where in the Bible, but there is a verse that says that if you deny the raptures you won't go.

And there is also a doctrine that teaches the rapture has already occured and will make some fall from the faith.
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I have had people actually try to convince me of this more than once.

#2 Salsa

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:45 AM

Can of worms Ike, can of worms... by hey, what isn't around here? :P

#3 jason

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:48 AM

i buy no three times. preach that verse to those in the mid trib or last trib as written oops too late. that is why paul wrote they thought jesus has come.

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:32 PM

i buy no three times. preach that verse to those in the mid trib or last trib as written oops too late. that is why paul wrote they thought jesus has come.


Instead of not buying it to just disagree, why not prove it wrong with scripture not opinion? I have no problem being corrected with the Word, but you first have to prove it with the Word.

So basically you would have to explain with the Word why you don;t buy it or it's only an opinion.

#5 ikester7579

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:35 PM

Can of worms Ike, can of worms... by hey, what isn't around here? :P


I like my worms fresh not canned :).
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#6 MamaElephant

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:08 PM

Where does the idea of a 7 year tribulation come from?

Pre-trib rapture aka rapture of the church is the meeting in the air:

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


I don't see an indication that this is pre-tribulation. I think it could very well be happening post-trib just like in this scripture:

Post trib rapture are for those who survived the 7 year tribulation some how and were taken up.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



#7 Without_Excuse

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:11 PM

Interesting, I have never really head of three raptures. But I guess when I generally think or talk about the rapture I am thinking more one dimensionally. As in the rapture of living believers in the world as we know it today. In more reasonable terms, when will I go if the rapture happens in my lifetime.

Your three trib rapture is backed by scripture, and it's interesting. I haven't studied this in depth enough to even really have a discussion on it. So I am looking forward to the rest of the responses.

#8 ikester7579

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:27 PM

Where does the idea of a 7 year tribulation come from?

I don't see an indication that this is pre-tribulation. I think it could very well be happening post-trib just like in this scripture:


Is there tribulation going on in each one? I could spell it out for you in detail but you will still disagree, right?

#9 Salsa

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:48 AM

Where does the idea of a 7 year tribulation come from?


The idea comes from Dan 9:24-27:

24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "

I think there are two main interpretaions here:

1. that 69 of the 70 weeks that were assigned to the Jews have been fulfilled and that there is one week remaining. Verse 27 deals with the antichrist. In the middle of the seven year "week" he breaks a peace treaty he establishes with Israel.

2. that 69.5 of the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. Verse 27 continues to deal with the Jesus 3½ year ministry that was "cut off". This leaves 3½ prophetic years left to be fullfilled.

Of the two I lean towards the second one. Here's a few reasons:

1. I get the feeling that since the antichrist is mentioned in other chapters in Daniel, people just assume that he has to be the one who "puts and end to sacrifice and offering", rather than Jesus.

2. There is no mention of any peace treaty anywhere else in the Bible. Jesus pointed out the "signs" of the end of the age and there was no mention of any peace treaty. Despite that many Christians are waiting for a peace treaty as one of the signs.

I think that rather than being a peace treaty, the "confirming of the covenant" is the covenant of faith made to Abraham, who would become the father of many nations. This was confirmed though Jesus crucifiction.

3. A seven year period is not mentioned either in Daniel or the book of Revelation. What both of these books do mention is a 3½ period:

"The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." (Dan 12:7)

The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. (Rev 12:14)

Perhaps this is a reference to the rapture. I don't know...

4. The translation of words in verse 27 "he will set up an abomination that causes desolation" is a little dubios which can be seen when comparing different translations.

Disclaimer: these are only my own thoughts about this. I am no expert in prophecy and find most of it confusing. :think:
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#10 jason

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:32 AM

simple originally schofield taught the jews were saved by the temple and also the christians buy the cross

that is what is orginally what your disy was. i looked it up.

.

http://www.theologue...#mozTocId538636

now then in reference to that daniel see the works bishop isaac newton, yes that newton he did alot of reasearch into that and alos concluded that daniels vision was completed on the seventy weeks.

also if said first trib occured(the biggest hurdle) t-minus 3.4 years and 364 days and 23 hours and 59 minutes and 59 seconds to the next coming.


kinding means that jesus lied when he said no man knoweth the hour.even if its one rapture that still applies.


a far older and less contraversial man and was a puritan himself and an american. adam clarke.

http://studylight.or...=da&chapter=009


this doesnt mean i have it all figured out , clarked didnt and believes the rcc is the beast.
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#11 Salsa

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:07 AM

also if said first trib occured(the biggest hurdle) t-minus 3.4 years and 364 days and 23 hours and 59 minutes and 59 seconds to the next coming.

kinding means that jesus lied when he said no man knoweth the hour.even if its one rapture that still applies.


Yeah, but perhaps we should all synchronize our watches... just in case.. :rotfl:

#12 jason

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:18 AM

that and every modern dispy seems to want to look for th ac. why? look to the cross that is where we too look.

#13 MarkForbes

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 05:46 AM

Pre-trib rapture aka rapture of the church is the meeting in the air:

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is also known as the thief in the night that grabs people.

1thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
...

I see no reason, why the events described here are anyhow "pre-trib". 






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