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Fibonacci Numbers - The Fingerprint Of God


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#1 Gerson

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:24 PM



Awesome video..........Random universe yeah right...
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#2 gilbo12345

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:25 PM

That is amazing!!!!!

#3 Salsa

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:29 AM

WOW! .... Totally mind-boggling! :blink:

#4 ikester7579

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:29 AM

I went on the web to research some of this and here are some more videos on it, But you have to watch the first one posted to understand this one:




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#5 Athelas

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:07 AM

Random universe? Who claims the universe is totally random? If it were, science would be useless. Without patterns, laws, order, you cannot use science to discover those laws or the patterns (evidently).

There is order in the growth of plants, both honeycombs as well as any other plant. Why fibonacci, golden ration, pi and other occur in nature, is known to science.

Take a look at the following link for instance: http://www.branta.co...k/fibonacci.htm

#6 Salsa

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:21 AM

Random universe? Who claims the universe is totally random? If it were, science would be useless. Without patterns, laws, order, you cannot use science to discover those laws or the patterns (evidently).


It's nice that secular science recognizes that there are patterns and laws.

But how did these laws arise?

And why are these patterns found scattered throughout the universe in different things, both living and dead?

Why are they only found in some things and not others?

#7 Athelas

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:24 AM



This video is related to patterns in nature. Fractals are everywhere and are used to extrapolate results of small scale tests to higher levels, for example to calculate how much co2 can be converted by plants.

If you are interested in math in general, this person's channel is very good.

#8 Athelas

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:58 AM

It's nice that secular science recognizes that there are patterns and laws.

But how did these laws arise?

And why are these patterns found scattered throughout the universe in different things, both living and dead?

Why are they only found in some things and not others?


If you are talking about laws in science, the answer is easy: the laws in science are descriptive which means that they are constructed by experiments, from observations and testing, and a lot of them have exceptions (lots of laws are only valid under certain conditions).

The laws of nature are a completely different thing. Afaik little is really known about them. They should be valid everywhere in the universe under all conditions. Since we are confined to earth, there is no way that we can test our scientific laws to determine if they are valid everywhere. We learn that even our most solid laws sometimes are found to have exceptions. However some laws are considered to be laws of nature (which doesn't mean that they are though).

If so little is known, it is impossible to tell you where they came from (if they actually come from somewhere and aren't descriptive that is).

Patterns often arise due to properties and conditions. It is perfectly possible that honeycomb structures for instance form for different reasons. Important is that patterns form not for the sake of patterns and because plants like Fibonacci but because it is their optimal growing pattern (offers the most space for each bud).

#9 Salsa

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:37 AM

If you are talking about laws in science, the answer is easy: the laws in science are descriptive which means that they are constructed by experiments, from observations and testing, and a lot of them have exceptions (lots of laws are only valid under certain conditions).

The laws of nature are a completely different thing. Afaik little is really known about them. They should be valid everywhere in the universe under all conditions. Since we are confined to earth, there is no way that we can test our scientific laws to determine if they are valid everywhere. We learn that even our most solid laws sometimes are found to have exceptions. However some laws are considered to be laws of nature (which doesn't mean that they are though).

If so little is known, it is impossible to tell you where they came from (if they actually come from somewhere and aren't descriptive that is).

Patterns often arise due to properties and conditions. It is perfectly possible that honeycomb structures for instance form for different reasons. Important is that patterns form not for the sake of patterns and because plants like Fibonacci but because it is their optimal growing pattern (offers the most space for each bud).


In other words, you don't know...

So why did you react the way you did? It almost sounded like you were saying "Oh that... we've got that covered..." when you obviously don't.
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#10 ikester7579

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:45 AM

Random universe? Who claims the universe is totally random? If it were, science would be useless. Without patterns, laws, order, you cannot use science to discover those laws or the patterns (evidently).

There is order in the growth of plants, both honeycombs as well as any other plant. Why fibonacci, golden ration, pi and other occur in nature, is known to science.

Take a look at the following link for instance: http://www.branta.co...k/fibonacci.htm


I read your link, it's basically guessing. There is no evidence of what they claim. It takes intelligence to do math like this and I would challenge to "prove" differently with evidence not words and opinions. If you can we are all ears.

#11 ikester7579

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:49 AM



This video is related to patterns in nature. Fractals are everywhere and are used to extrapolate results of small scale tests to higher levels, for example to calculate how much co2 can be converted by plants.

If you are interested in math in general, this person's channel is very good.


So what you are trying to imply here is that mathmatical information like this just poofs itself out of thin air so that every lifeform and order just abides by it? Man, you are way out there, But then again, what did I expect when the godless explanation always is the same. It just happens, right? Math, designs, complexity etc.. Just happens, right? Is that what you are trying to push?
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#12 Athelas

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:50 AM

In other words, you don't know...

So why did you react the way you did? It almost sounded like you were saying "Oh that... we've got that covered..." when you obviously don't.


I don't know what exactly? Both of your replies are very vague.

I reacted to patterns and random universe. We got that covered. We known why patterns form and that the universe is far from random. So I don't see how my reply wasn't on topic.

#13 ikester7579

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:51 AM

In other words, you don't know...

So why did you react the way you did? It almost sounded like you were saying "Oh that... we've got that covered..." when you obviously don't.


Actually making someone else's explanation look lame is to cover for their's being even worse. For if he really had a really good explanation, the explanation itself would had made us all look stupid and there would have been no need for anything else to be said. But that's not what happened so it only goes to show that they have nothing and don;t like it that we do.
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#14 ikester7579

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:54 AM

I don't know what exactly? Both of your replies are very vague.

I reacted to patterns and random universe. We got that covered. We known why patterns form and that the universe is far from random. So I don't see how my reply wasn't on topic.


Vague because your attempt of discrediting everyone else's idea to make your own look better only shows that yours was lame to start with.. And as far as being off topic, where exactly was that said? No where. So whos's trying to derail the thread now with things not even in it?

#15 Athelas

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:57 AM

So what you are trying to imply here is that mathmatical information like this just poofs itself out of thin air so that every lifeform and order just abides by it? Man, you are way out there, But then again, what did I expect when the godless explanation always is the same. It just happens, right? Math, designs, complexity etc.. Just happens, right? Is that what you are trying to push?


I don't study plants so no, it's not what I am trying to push but what science, good science, observational science, is saying. Plants form in specific patterns because of their properties and functions, not because they know fibonacci numbers and like them.

How would you explain plants forming with Fibonacci and golden ratio's? Why don't all plants have this pattern? Why do some plants form in 180° angles and others in 137.5?

#16 jason

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:03 AM

but something had to order the universe.you wouldnt try to tell us the I-95 with its length and markings for traffic and signs was a happenstance event.

#17 Salsa

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:04 AM

I don't know what exactly? Both of your replies are very vague.

I reacted to patterns and random universe. We got that covered. We known why patterns form and that the universe is far from random. So I don't see how my reply wasn't on topic.


Actually I thought your answers were vague. You just point to other things - properties and conditions - without addressing the obvious - where did they come from?

If I find an beautifully drawn intricate pattern drawn on a piece of paper and ask you where it came from, what is your answer? From a pen?

#18 jason

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:16 AM

the abolition of men by cs.lewis comes to mind. in hit he talks about this philosophy of materalism that all we are is a bunch of chemical reactions. we feel good or bad based on chemicals. he called it men with no chests.

#19 Salsa

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:18 AM

Actually making someone else's explanation look lame is to cover for their's being even worse. For if he really had a really good explanation, the explanation itself would had made us all look stupid and there would have been no need for anything else to be said. But that's not what happened so it only goes to show that they have nothing and don;t like it that we do.


Not only that, it is a strawman.

No one here said anything about scientists not acknowledging patterns in nature.

I think the facinating thing is that this pattern is found even in things that have vastly different "properties and conditions" at the same time as is is not found in things that have very relatively similar "properties and conditions".

It would be a different matter if the pattern was found in everything. We could make some kind of conclusion that it is just an unexplained law of matter. But why would it just turn up in some things and not in others?

A little bit "random" don't you think? :rolleyes:

#20 ikester7579

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:04 AM

I don't study plants so no, it's not what I am trying to push but what science, good science, observational science, is saying. Plants form in specific patterns because of their properties and functions, not because they know fibonacci numbers and like them.

How would you explain plants forming with Fibonacci and golden ratio's? Why don't all plants have this pattern? Why do some plants form in 180° angles and others in 137.5?


So what you are trying to say is that claiming it took inteligence is not really good science? I have yet to see you produce an observable scientific process which requires things to be this way. Only words. Words don;t make new truths and realities just because you say it does. Or does your words have that much power to supercede all other ideas that do not "conform" to the evolution way?




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