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#1 Gerson

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:09 PM

http://faithskeptic....s.com/FCtoA.htm

What do you think of this guy?
according to him he was a true christian but i think he wasnt in first place.

look this

http://faithskeptic....om/creation.htm


Genesis 1:6-8 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Here God has placed a firmament over the earth. A firmament is a solid dome. So according to Genesis, our sky is solid. As many times as we have sent out spacecrafts, how often have we ran into this solid firmament?


is he.....excuse my vocabulary but-------Stupid?


#2 ikester7579

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:08 PM

http://faithskeptic....s.com/FCtoA.htm

What do you think of this guy?
according to him he was a true christian but i think he wasnt in first place.


The atheist ploy is to always look like the belief in God was forced upon them. This is why he says that he was raised a baptist and never questioned it because he basically did not know better. First sign that this story is more of a promotion of atheism than it is about any real truth. To the militant atheist making the belief in God sound like a cult is their goal. And why should they tell the truth when their is no written moral code that would require them to do this? We have atheists come here to this forum and outright lie and go back to their own forums admit to it and laugh about it, So why would they not lie about this as well to promote their agenda?

And what else proves this is most likely a lie is his use of the militant atheist motto that can be said in many different ways: Now, I no longer live a lie; I live a life.

The militant atheist is always looking for justification for their belief. Justification here was to discredit one thing that actually cannot be proven wrong so that the other choice looks much better, And it's also a hidden message which says: Come join me and quit living the lie.

look this
http://faithskeptic....om/creation.htm

Genesis 1:6-8 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Here God has placed a firmament over the earth. A firmament is a solid dome. So according to Genesis, our sky is solid. As many times as we have sent out spacecrafts, how often have we ran into this solid firmament?

is he.....excuse my vocabulary but-------Stupid?


Since UV rays alter DNA for God's creation to be eternal there had to be something there to block this. And no it was not a "solid dome". It was a semi solid dome of metallic hydrogen. Also the semi solid dome no longer exists because it fell during the flood.

How was it created? On the first day of creation there was:
1) The universe or space.
2) The earth.
3) The earth was covered with water.
4) No atmosphere.

The condition of space are:
1) A vacuum.
2) Absolute zero (−459.67°F).

Water in these conditions will:
1) Boil (try to become gas). Water in a complete vacuum will boil at any temperature.
2) Freeze because it is so cold.
3) A portion will stay liquid.
4) Basically this is called a waters triple point. which is where a condition allows it to be in 3 different forms at the same time.

How did the firmament form?
1) Because the water was boiling it created a icy frozen mist.
2) Because ice will react to a magnet and the earth has a magnetic field. The icy mist came together to create a semi solid mass.
3) And because a magnet that big would have extreme forces and pressures holding it together, the extreme pressures would have made metallic hydrogen.

Does metallic hydrogen exist anywhere else?
https://www.llnl.gov/str/Nellis.html
http://www.rsc.org/c...er/14111102.asp

Are there conditions that show us one can exist?
When NASA shoots up the shuttle, or a rocket into space. The exhaust of the burning fuel puts water vapor in our upper atmosphere. This vapor freezes and because of low barometric pressure it also boils as it freezes and turns into what's known as a ice cloud. As shown below.

Posted Image

This ice cloud always heads to the North Pole which happens to be the closest magnetic pole. If you don't think ice reacts to magnetic fields. Take a ice cube tie it to a string then pass a somewhat strong magnet underneath it and it will move.

And how does it stay up there? Metallic hydrogen is considered a superconductor. What suspends it is known as the "Mysner effect" which is shown as 2 examples below.

Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/v/-uWcrM-J75Q

How did it fall?

A meteor hit it and there is evidence that one big enough struck the earth.

Atheists arguments:

Something that big would create such high air pressures that nothing could live. Answer: How does 32 psi and less hold up a several thousand pound car? PSI stands for pound per square inch. And since that are a lot of square inches in the whole sphere of the earth the weight would be distributed evenly enough that at the most the air pressure would only double. that's well within the range of supporting life.

What does this answer?

1) How people in the old testament lived so long. HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen treatments) cure many injuries and diseases. The videos below will show that major injuries heal up faster and also where nothing else works.



Even major sports use the treatment to heal their players faster.



So if your body is healing itself why would you not live much longer?

2) Why there was no rain until the flood. High barometric pressures do not allow rain clouds to form. The pressure has to drop even today before clouds form. Pressures being much higher back then means they did not form at all. that is why the people laughed at Noah when he said the whole earth will be flooded when the rain starts. They never saw rain before.

3) Why the fountains of the deep broke up and all the water from under the earth's crust came up. The barometric pressures of the atmosphere determine the boiling point of any water that exists on a planet. At sea level here 14.7 psi makes water boil at a little over 200 F. On Mars where the pressure are only 1/4-1/8 that of earth the boiling point would be arounf 50 F.

And the pressure while the canopy existed was about twice which means it was around 29 psi. This would have the boiling point of water much higher and water existing that would have boiled off under todays conditions. So when the pressures dropped when the canopy fell the water that was very hot and not boiling suddenly was boiling. This created steam pockets and a great amont of pressure until something gave, And once the water started coming up, the techtonics plates started moving inward squeezing the rest out,

And you have the mechanism and basically a rough model for how it all happened. Which by the way uses the laws of physics even under changing conditions for support.

#3 Gerson

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:17 AM

The atheist ploy is to always look like the belief in God was forced upon them. This is why he says that he was raised a baptist and never questioned it because he basically did not know better. First sign that this story is more of a promotion of atheism than it is about any real truth. To the militant atheist making the belief in God sound like a cult is their goal. And why should they tell the truth when their is no written moral code that would require them to do this? We have atheists come here to this forum and outright lie and go back to their own forums admit to it and laugh about it, So why would they not lie about this as well to promote their agenda?

And what else proves this is most likely a lie is his use of the militant atheist motto that can be said in many different ways: Now, I no longer live a lie; I live a life.

The militant atheist is always looking for justification for their belief. Justification here was to discredit one thing that actually cannot be proven wrong so that the other choice looks much better, And it's also a hidden message which says: Come join me and quit living the lie.



Since UV rays alter DNA for God's creation to be eternal there had to be something there to block this. And no it was not a "solid dome". It was a semi solid dome of metallic hydrogen. Also the semi solid dome no longer exists because it fell during the flood.

How was it created? On the first day of creation there was:
1) The universe or space.
2) The earth.
3) The earth was covered with water.
4) No atmosphere.

The condition of space are:
1) A vacuum.
2) Absolute zero (−459.67°F).

Water in these conditions will:
1) Boil (try to become gas). Water in a complete vacuum will boil at any temperature.
2) Freeze because it is so cold.
3) A portion will stay liquid.
4) Basically this is called a waters triple point. which is where a condition allows it to be in 3 different forms at the same time.

How did the firmament form?
1) Because the water was boiling it created a icy frozen mist.
2) Because ice will react to a magnet and the earth has a magnetic field. The icy mist came together to create a semi solid mass.
3) And because a magnet that big would have extreme forces and pressures holding it together, the extreme pressures would have made metallic hydrogen.

Does metallic hydrogen exist anywhere else?
https://www.llnl.gov/str/Nellis.html
http://www.rsc.org/c...er/14111102.asp

Are there conditions that show us one can exist?
When NASA shoots up the shuttle, or a rocket into space. The exhaust of the burning fuel puts water vapor in our upper atmosphere. This vapor freezes and because of low barometric pressure it also boils as it freezes and turns into what's known as a ice cloud. As shown below.

Posted Image

This ice cloud always heads to the North Pole which happens to be the closest magnetic pole. If you don't think ice reacts to magnetic fields. Take a ice cube tie it to a string then pass a somewhat strong magnet underneath it and it will move.

And how does it stay up there? Metallic hydrogen is considered a superconductor. What suspends it is known as the "Mysner effect" which is shown as 2 examples below.

Posted Image

http://www.youtube.com/v/-uWcrM-J75Q

How did it fall?

A meteor hit it and there is evidence that one big enough struck the earth.

Atheists arguments:

Something that big would create such high air pressures that nothing could live. Answer: How does 32 psi and less hold up a several thousand pound car? PSI stands for pound per square inch. And since that are a lot of square inches in the whole sphere of the earth the weight would be distributed evenly enough that at the most the air pressure would only double. that's well within the range of supporting life.

What does this answer?

1) How people in the old testament lived so long. HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen treatments) cure many injuries and diseases. The videos below will show that major injuries heal up faster and also where nothing else works.



Even major sports use the treatment to heal their players faster.



So if your body is healing itself why would you not live much longer?

2) Why there was no rain until the flood. High barometric pressures do not allow rain clouds to form. The pressure has to drop even today before clouds form. Pressures being much higher back then means they did not form at all. that is why the people laughed at Moses when he said the whole earth will be flooded when the rain starts. They never saw rain before.

3) Why the fountains of the deep broke up and all the water from under the earth's crust came up. The barometric pressures of the atmosphere determine the boiling point of any water that exists on a planet. At sea level here 14.7 psi makes water boil at a little over 200 F. On Mars where the pressure are only 1/4-1/8 that of earth the boiling point would be arounf 50 F.

And the pressure while the canopy existed was about twice which means it was around 29 psi. This would have the boiling point of water much higher and water existing that would have boiled off under todays conditions. So when the pressures dropped when the canopy fell the water that was very hot and not boiling suddenly was boiling. This created steam pockets and a great amont of pressure until something gave, And once the water started coming up, the techtonics plates started moving inward squeezing the rest out,

And you have the mechanism and basically a rough model for how it all happened. Which by the way uses the laws of physics even under changing conditions for support.


thats why i like this forum you always have some awesome answers

#4 Gerson

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:25 AM

why would he stick that thing out there for no reason. If God created the Heaven and the Earth, as described in the first chapter of Genesis, and we are unique in the universe, then what was all this other stuff out there for? It may seem trivial to most, but that one question at that moment lead to more questions.

Looks like he never read psalms the funny part is according to his history he read the bible several times

#5 ikester7579

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:02 AM

why would he stick that thing out there for no reason. If God created the Heaven and the Earth, as described in the first chapter of Genesis, and we are unique in the universe, then what was all this other stuff out there for? It may seem trivial to most, but that one question at that moment lead to more questions.

Looks like he never read psalms the funny part is according to his history he read the bible several times


The reason God put the Canopy out there is because God can only create things to be eternal. To create something that does not support that would be an imperfect creation. Also to create beings with no choice for sinful or sinless life would be God creating Puppets and putting Himself as the Puppet master. A created people with no choice cannot be judged rightly. It's like if someone is "forced" to rob a bank against his will. Maybe they attached a bomb to him, or hold family members hostage. In either case he does not have a choice so therefore our court system here in the US cannot put him to trial. So he goes scott free.

Same way in God's judgment. Either the created beings have a choice or they cannot be judged. So even though God created everything to be eternal, that freewill choice made it non-eternal so the canopy was no longer needed so it fell.

The other part of this is that because the canopy was like clear glass at night. And curved glass acted like a huge magnifying glass. When the people back then look up into the sky at night they saw what we have to see looking through the Hobble telescope. So they knew the glory of God just by looking at the night sky. In the day time it would turn a pink magenta which look like the color of hot molten glass.

job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

#6 miles

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 10:50 AM

How was it created? On the first day of creation there was:
1) The universe or space.
2) The earth.
3) The earth was covered with water.
4) No atmosphere.

The condition of space are:
1) A vacuum.
2) Absolute zero (−459.67°F).

Water in these conditions will:
1) Boil (try to become gas). Water in a complete vacuum will boil at any temperature.
2) Freeze because it is so cold.
3) A portion will stay liquid.
4) Basically this is called a waters triple point. which is where a condition allows it to be in 3 different forms at the same time.

Water at absolute zero is not at it's triple point, it's simply solid. Look at a phase diagram to see this. It's impossible for water to be liquid or vapor at temperatures below about -100C, regardless of the pressure.
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/phase.html

Water in a vaccum will not boil at all temperatures, at low temperatures it is simply solid ice. In a vacuum at high temperature, no portion will remain liquid. Below 611 Pascals, there can't be liquid water, it will either be solid or vapor depending on temperature.

How did the firmament form?
1) Because the water was boiling it created a icy frozen mist.
2) Because ice will react to a magnet and the earth has a magnetic field. The icy mist came together to create a semi solid mass.
3) And because a magnet that big would have extreme forces and pressures holding it together, the extreme pressures would have made metallic hydrogen.

As noted above, water can't boil at absolute zero.
Ice reacts noticeably only to strong magnets, the earth's magnetic field is much too weak to cause any reaction by ice. Simply look at snow and note that it doesn't show any alignment related to the lines of magnetic force of the earth's field.


Does metallic hydrogen exist anywhere else?
https://www.llnl.gov/str/Nellis.html
http://www.rsc.org/c...er/14111102.asp

Are there conditions that show us one can exist?
When NASA shoots up the shuttle, or a rocket into space. The exhaust of the burning fuel puts water vapor in our upper atmosphere. This vapor freezes and because of low barometric pressure it also boils as it freezes and turns into what's known as a ice cloud. As shown below.
This ice cloud always heads to the North Pole which happens to be the closest magnetic pole. If you don't think ice reacts to magnetic fields. Take a ice cube tie it to a string then pass a somewhat strong magnet underneath it and it will move.

Ice is diamagnetic, meaning it is repelled by magnetic fields. If the earth were a strong enough magnet to cause a reaction, ice would be pushed away from, not toward the poles.

And how does it stay up there? Metallic hydrogen is considered a superconductor. What suspends it is known as the "Mysner effect" which is shown as 2 examples below.

Superconductors can only levitate in the presence of extremely strong magnetic fields. The earth's magnetic field is much too weak to cause levitation (easily provable by looking at any picture of a non-levitating superconductor. If the earth's magnetic field caused magnetic levitation, all superconductors on earth would levitate all the time).


2) Why there was no rain until the flood. High barometric pressures do not allow rain clouds to form. The pressure has to drop even today before clouds form. Pressures being much higher back then means they did not form at all. that is why the people laughed at Noah when he said the whole earth will be flooded when the rain starts. They never saw rain before.

High barometric pressure is a relative term not an absolute number. 1000Pa is high pressure compared to 800Pa but low pressure compared to 1200Pa. Clouds will form in a low pressure area compared to high pressure (i.e. they'll form at 800 Pa compared to 1000Pa and at 1000Pa compared to 1200Pa). There is no set number for "high pressure" that would prevent clouds from forming. Look at jupiter where the atmospheric pressures are enormous compared to earth, water clouds form there just fine.

3) Why the fountains of the deep broke up and all the water from under the earth's crust came up. The barometric pressures of the atmosphere determine the boiling point of any water that exists on a planet. At sea level here 14.7 psi makes water boil at a little over 200 F. On Mars where the pressure are only 1/4-1/8 that of earth the boiling point would be arounf 50 F.

And the pressure while the canopy existed was about twice which means it was around 29 psi. This would have the boiling point of water much higher and water existing that would have boiled off under todays conditions. So when the pressures dropped when the canopy fell the water that was very hot and not boiling suddenly was boiling. This created steam pockets and a great amont of pressure until something gave, And once the water started coming up, the techtonics plates started moving inward squeezing the rest out,

http://wiki.answers....th_in_the_earth

Doubling the atmospheric pressure would change the boiling point from 100C at 15psi to about 120C at 30psi. The geothermal gradient of the earth is about 20C per km (each km down gets about 20C hotter). For water to be above 100C it would need to be about 4-5 km underground. The pressure gradiant of the earth is about 30 million Pa per km. At 4-5km deep, removing 15 psi (103,421 Pa) wouldn't cause water to boil because it would still be under about 120-150 million Pa. (boiling at 100C would require it to be under less than 100,000 Pa).

The other part of this is that because the canopy was like clear glass at night. And curved glass acted like a huge magnifying glass. When the people back then look up into the sky at night they saw what we have to see looking through the Hobble telescope. So they knew the glory of God just by looking at the night sky. In the day time it would turn a pink magenta which look like the color of hot molten glass.

job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?


Doesn't the story of Job takes place after the flood? You are arguing that a canopy made the sky pink, and that the canopy no longer existed after the flood. If that were true, how could someone speaking to Job after the flood be saying that the sky is pink due to a canopy? Notice that he says "which IS strong..." not "which WAS strong...". Most translations have that passage meaning that the sky is strong/bright as a polished piece of metal, not pink.

#7 de_skudd

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:50 AM

Doesn't the story of Job takes place after the flood?


No... Therefore then rest of your post is misguided and assumptive.

#8 Bond007

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

Very interesting about the firmament thank you...

#9 MarkForbes

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

No... Therefore then rest of your post is misguided and assumptive.

Sure about this?

Job 22
14Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.

15Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden?

16Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood:

17Which said unto God, Depart from us: and what can the Almighty do for them?

...



#10 de_skudd

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:17 PM

Sure about this?


Yep, you're right, my bad

#11 de_skudd

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:19 PM

See... That's what happens when someone can admit when they're wrong. Posted Image

#12 Bond007

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

Posted Image

#13 Minnemooseus

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:08 PM

Posted Image


Congratulations - You've just summarized the atheist religious doctrine. There isn't any.

Just like "bald" isn't a hair color.

Moose

#14 de_skudd

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

Posted Image


Congratulations - You've just summarized the atheist religious doctrine. There isn't any.

Bad atheistic analogy #1

That isn't a summation on the lack of "the atheist religious doctrine"; Rather, its the summation on the lack of "the atheist logical and scientifically factual based evidence" for ANY materialistic origins of any of that which surrounds us (The universe, life, intelligence etc...), and therefore a GREAT basis FOR the atheist's religious doctrine...


Just like "bald" isn't a hair color.
Moose

Bad atheistic analogy #2

1- Bald isn't hair
2- Bald is a LACK of hair
Conclusion: any analogy attempting to correlate a lack of hair with hair color, is nothing but the suppositions of those who have no answer for the evidence.

Now, It can be analogous with the atheists lack of logical and scientifically factual based evidence" for ANY materialistic origins of any of of that which surrounds us (The universe, life, intelligence etc...), and therefore a GREAT basis FOR the atheist's religious doctrine...

1- Atheists attempt to use the logically fallacious analogy "bald isn't a hair color" to cover for a lack of evidence for "Materialistic Origins".
2 -Atheists will dogmatically defend their materialistic philosophical worldview EVEN THOUGH it lacks ANY logical and scientific evidence for "Materialistic Origins".(If you don't believe me, watch Minnemooseus, or any other atheist, attempt to do so after he reads my post).
Conclusion: All atheists who fall into both premise 1 and premise 2 provide evidence for the religion of atheism.
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