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#1 Earthling

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:24 PM

Based on the number of banned non-creationist users on this forum (and the rather... let's see, how can I put this mildly... interesting way some discussion topics (e.g. evolution) are framed in the Forum Rules and FAQ), my guess is that I won't stay long here. Especially since I am forced to choose a 'worldview' (in my case a non-creationist one), even though I would have preferred to keep that private since I feel that such enforced labels probably detract from what should (at least in my opinion) be most important, i.e. the arguments that are actually presented. But anyway, hi all!

#2 MamaElephant

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:30 PM

Hello Earthling. I wanted to include an appropriate smiley, so here's one for you: :fly: LOL!

#3 ikester7579

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:05 PM

Based on the number of banned non-creationist users on this forum (and the rather... let's see, how can I put this mildly... interesting way some discussion topics (e.g. evolution) are framed in the Forum Rules and FAQ), my guess is that I won't stay long here. Especially since I am forced to choose a 'worldview' (in my case a non-creationist one), even though I would have preferred to keep that private since I feel that such enforced labels probably detract from what should (at least in my opinion) be most important, i.e. the arguments that are actually presented. But anyway, hi all!


If you cannot put up front what you believe and defend it then to what end do you hide it? No worldview or a neutral one allows you to play the whole table while never committing to anything if it does not apply. Would you want to debate a Christian that would not tell you what they believe and debated you to the point you did not know how to respond because you did not know where they were coming from?

That's what we try to avoid here. We have even had Christians try to join up as evolutionists to play games and guess what? They got banned as well. Either you are serious about debating the subject or you are here to waste everyone's time. So which would you say you are here for?

#4 MamaElephant

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:26 PM

That's what we try to avoid here. We have even had Christians try to join up as evolutionists to play games and guess what? They got banned as well.

You mean they were actually creationists and lied about their worldview?

I wonder how many people have changed their worldview while a member of this forum. I know two that have! :Just_Cuz:

#5 Earthling

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

If you cannot put up front what you believe and defend it then to what end do you hide it?

If I have to defend something, does that mean that I will be attacked? Because I read the forum rules and they say "The primary goal of this forum is to provide a place for honest, educational, civil, and fun debate on the topic of origins." Attacks on my atheism are not part of that, as far as I am concerned. I am happy to discuss it, though, if you feel the need for that. But if you, as administrator of a debate forum, cannot accept that some people hold views different from yours and want to "attack" them, then this is indeed not the place for me and my stay here will be accordingly short. So, in line with the forum rules that ask for civility and fun, let me extend my hello to you as well. It is nice to meet one of the administrators, even though it would be nicer if they had said hello and welcomed me to the forum, like MamaElephant kindly did, before they go off and lecture me.

PS, and as for this one,

Would you want to debate a Christian that would not tell you what they believe and debated you to the point you did not know how to respond because you did not know where they were coming from?

When I debate someone I don't care or need to know whether someone is a believer or not. I care about whether their arguments are valid or not. If an argument is invalid or illogical it is so irrespective of someone's belief or lack thereof. And that is why I would prefer to hide my so-called 'worldview'. Because it doesn't matter.

#6 MamaElephant

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:43 PM

Nice sig line. I would suggest The Top 10 Myths about Evolution. I have seen evolutionists use arguments based on these myths a lot. :) I learned a lot from reading the book too.

#7 Earthling

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:58 PM

I made a sig line but I actually can't see it in my posts, not even if I log out. Can I change that in some way? (still trying to figure out how the forum software works)

#8 ikester7579

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:23 PM

If I have to defend something, does that mean that I will be attacked? Because I read the forum rules and they say "The primary goal of this forum is to provide a place for honest, educational, civil, and fun debate on the topic of origins." Attacks on my atheism are not part of that, as far as I am concerned. I am happy to discuss it, though, if you feel the need for that. But if you, as administrator of a debate forum, cannot accept that some people hold views different from yours and want to "attack" them, then this is indeed not the place for me and my stay here will be accordingly short. So, in line with the forum rules that ask for civility and fun, let me extend my hello to you as well. It is nice to meet one of the administrators, even though it would be nicer if they had said hello and welcomed me to the forum, like MamaElephant kindly did, before they go off and lecture me.

PS, and as for this one,

When I debate someone I don't care or need to know whether someone is a believer or not. I care about whether their arguments are valid or not. If an argument is invalid or illogical it is so irrespective of someone's belief or lack thereof. And that is why I would prefer to hide my so-called 'worldview'. Because it doesn't matter.


We were lectured first so I returned the favor. If you are going to have a problem with the forum and knew this why did you join? Accusing everyone else of everything that you foresee as going to go wrong because you believe we are the problem and not you, only shows us that you think you should be able to tell us how to run a forum that you don;t pay the bills for.

If all you are going to do is complain and waste everyone's time, I can fix that and it would not even bother me. Whine if you must but tolerance of it won't last much longer.

Your thread name and subject tells me that you want to be banned. And that you are mad you cannot hide behind a neutral worldview. Following rules on forums that are run by people you despise must really be a problem for you. Well you agreed to them when you joined. So it's not our fault when you get banned for breaking the disagreement.

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#9 gilbo12345

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:56 AM

I thought the thread name was a bit cheeky too

#10 SomchaiA

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:18 AM

If I have to defend something, does that mean that I will be attacked? Because I read the forum rules and they say "The primary goal of this forum is to provide a place for honest, educational, civil, and fun debate on the topic of origins." Attacks on my atheism are not part of that, as far as I am concerned. I am happy to discuss it, though, if you feel the need for that. But if you, as administrator of a debate forum, cannot accept that some people hold views different from yours and want to "attack" them, then this is indeed not the place for me and my stay here will be accordingly short. So, in line with the forum rules that ask for civility and fun, let me extend my hello to you as well. It is nice to meet one of the administrators, even though it would be nicer if they had said hello and welcomed me to the forum, like MamaElephant kindly did, before they go off and lecture me. PS, and as for this one, When I debate someone I don't care or need to know whether someone is a believer or not. I care about whether their arguments are valid or not. If an argument is invalid or illogical it is so irrespective of someone's belief or lack thereof. And that is why I would prefer to hide my so-called 'worldview'. Because it doesn't matter.


Sawadee krap Earthling.

#11 JayShel

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:00 AM

If I have to defend something, does that mean that I will be attacked? Because I read the forum rules and they say "The primary goal of this forum is to provide a place for honest, educational, civil, and fun debate on the topic of origins." Attacks on my atheism are not part of that, as far as I am concerned. I am happy to discuss it, though, if you feel the need for that. But if you, as administrator of a debate forum, cannot accept that some people hold views different from yours and want to "attack" them, then this is indeed not the place for me and my stay here will be accordingly short. So, in line with the forum rules that ask for civility and fun, let me extend my hello to you as well. It is nice to meet one of the administrators, even though it would be nicer if they had said hello and welcomed me to the forum, like MamaElephant kindly did, before they go off and lecture me.

PS, and as for this one,

When I debate someone I don't care or need to know whether someone is a believer or not. I care about whether their arguments are valid or not. If an argument is invalid or illogical it is so irrespective of someone's belief or lack thereof. And that is why I would prefer to hide my so-called 'worldview'. Because it doesn't matter.


Yes when you inevitably come to a rational, logical discussion about your worldview, you will be forced to "defend" it with rational arguments. Is this a problem?

If you don't show your worldview, what purpose would this serve?

#12 Earthling

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:19 AM

We were lectured first so I returned the favor.

Obviously.

Following rules on forums that are run by people you despise must really be a problem for you.

First, I don't have a problem with following rules, if they make sense. Second, I did follow the rules, since I am here. Third, I made an observation on how many non-creationists get banned here (a lot), and on how you frame any discussions on evolution (in an interesting way). If making such observations is not allowed here, let me know. Fourth, I do not despise you. Why should I? I don't even know you. Unless you want me to despise you...

So it's not our fault when you get banned for breaking the disagreement.

I have included my 'worldview' so as far I know I have not broken any 'agreement' there. I just pointed out that in a discussion about evolution, 'worldview' doesn't matter. Arguments and evidence do. So it would be nice if we can turn to that, instead of quibbling over some observations that I made, don't you think?

#13 Earthling

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:21 AM

Sawadee krap Earthling.

Thanks!

#14 Earthling

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:24 AM

Yes when you inevitably come to a rational, logical discussion about your worldview, you will be forced to "defend" it with rational arguments. Is this a problem?

Certainly not. But I thought this site was about discussing evolution, not 'worldviews'. Am I wrong there?

#15 Earthling

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:41 AM

I thought the thread name was a bit cheeky too

Maybe it is, but then again, big red warnings aimed at evolutionists only when you sign up, and the staggering number of banned atheists at this forum do not really make you feel welcome, and certainly do not give the impression that moderation here is going to treat creationists and non-creationists alike... So I thought, I make a tongue-in-cheek reference to that. Unless criticism is not allowed here. In that case, let me know. Anyway, I am happy to turn to some real topics. Science and stuff.

#16 Salsa

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

Certainly not. But I thought this site was about discussing evolution, not 'worldviews'. Am I wrong there?


Hi Earthling and welcome!

Actually, I think you will find that it is the "wordview" part of evolution that is being discussed here. Creationists don't disagree with the scientific, observable side of evolution, since we see it as adaption within populations of a certain kind of animal. Both creationists and evoutionists recognize that life on earth exist in tree structures, with the bottom part of the trees hidden by time. Evolutionists see all the trees merging whereas creationists see a boundary between trees that is not being crossed and consider the evidence of this boundary-crossing to be way to skimpish to be called science.

#17 Salsa

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:02 AM

Maybe it is, but then again, big red warnings aimed at evolutionists only when you sign up, and the staggering number of banned atheists at this forum do not really make you feel welcome, and certainly do not give the impression that moderation here is going to treat creationists and non-creationists alike... So I thought, I make a tongue-in-cheek reference to that. Unless criticism is not allowed here. In that case, let me know. Anyway, I am happy to turn to some real topics. Science and stuff.


I understand your concern, but I think you have to envision this from a creationist perspective. If you were to submit a few pro-creationist posts out on an unmodified forum such as YouTube then you would soon discover how many bannable offences per post there are. Although most of the atheists and evolutionist who come here do not resort to open insults and so on, a very large number of them still house a great deal of contempt and I think inevitably this causes problems here.

#18 Earthling

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:10 AM

@UppsalaDragby,
Sure, there is a lot of sometimes unnecessary name-calling in this debate. However, I feel that by putting up the kind of quite negatively phrased, up front warnings that this forum has, you are more likely to scare off the 'friendly' evolutionists (not necessarily only atheists, since there are many religious evolutionists) who want to debate in an open atmosphere then people who just want to make fun of you.

#19 Ron

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

Certainly not. But I thought this site was about discussing evolution, not 'worldviews'. Am I wrong there?


Evolutionisim IS a worldview; especially where it touches on macroevolution and the attempts to dogmatically defend it as a fact.

#20 Earthling

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

Evolutionisim IS a worldview

If 'evolutionism' is a 'worldview', then why wasn't it in the list from worldviews from which I was forced to choose when I signed up to this forum? Or do you mean that 'evolutionism' is the same as atheism?




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