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Aliens - Ufos


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#61 gilbo12345

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:58 PM

1. Nitpick. If I were more direct would you then accuse me of being too abrasive? Probably. You've already accused me of 'twisting your words' and then have the audacity to lecture me on the spirit of this debate.



2. This about says it all. So you believe in aliens yet have no logical conclusions about them.


3. But you did basically make camp with the "sinning aliens" camp. Now you are hedging your bet. Because either position is untenable and you see that yourself.



4. Actually, THIS says it all. If I had know this, no personal offense, I wouldn't even be debating you on this.


5. I admit, I wrongfully assumed you were a Christian.


6. Now that I discover you are not, I state end of discussion, we have NO common ground to be discussing this as it pertains to the Bible.

7. I am going to inquire how someone who has "Creationist" listed, and Creationist only (because the other information is concealed as "private"), can be a "theistic agnostic".

8. But I am sorry for wasting your time on this, and somehow my unavoidable confusion over your world view has wasted MY time as well.

9. Finally, I am going to place you on ignore and won't be replying to any future posts you make to me.

10. I feel deceived by your use of "private" and "Creationist".

11. But I suppose that is to what is to be expected from someone who prides himself as a "tactician". :rolleyes:


1. How can you propose to claim what I would or wouldn't do in different circumstances, thus your claim here is thus nonsensical. The evidence of your word twisting on written here on this thread, one needs to only read.


2. When did I claim that aliens do exist. As I have said, multiple times now, that I have been advocating that they are merely a possibility. Please provide quotes of me stating that they do in fact exist, otherwise your claim here is an attempt at a red herring as well as slander or misrepresentation. Furthermore I have also said that since the Bible doesn't specifically state that aliens do or don't exist, IF we ever found some then this cannot be used as a means to claim the Bible wrong, (so in a sense I am protecting the Bible from wrongful future attacks).


3. More evidence of word twisting. I never made a camp that professed aliens to be true... I have, (from the word go), hedged my bets since I have always claimed it as a possibility. Hence your claims here are more misrepresentation.


4. I am curious to know why? Since you debate other topics with all manner of worldviews.... Are you sure you're not trying to conceive a scape-goat claim.


5. No problem


6. So wouldn't you claim that stance in any other debate... Since creation is depicted in the Bible yet evolution isn't, so there are no common grounds there either... The scape-goat claim is realised

7. When did I say that I was a theistic agnostic... You are making assumptions again. Perhaps it is best for you to sit back and just ASK me what my worldview is.

If you read my other posts in other threads you will see that I do believe in creation, this is something you can work out yourself without resorting to asking me... Also it is more indicative, since "actions speak louder than words"

Do you admit that there can be Jewish creationists, Muslim creationists and that ID believes that things were created so kinda is a creationist... If so then how can you claim "creationist" equates to "Christian"... This is your assumption.


8. It isn't unavoidable since

- you shouldn't assume
- you can always ask- "ask and ye shall receive"

If it has wasted your time then the only person you can complain to is yourself.. Yet considering how debates take place with opposite sides how can you claim that because I am not on your "side" that this is now a waste.. (Similar to point 6)

9. Despite the fact that you have ignored the bulk of my post showing how your assumptions are wrong and asking you for your scriptural evidence... Doesn't the Bible say to test all things... not to ignore it?

However this discussion is, (as I said), unknowable. Hence why I have taken a fence sitter position rather than an absolute position like yourself since there is no evidence either way hence I feel that an absolute yes or no position is premature with such lack of evidence.

10. Now this is called passing the buck. I put private since none of the other options accurately described my position, if this were a problem I am sure the option wouldn't exist, the mere fact that it does means that I am well within my rights to put "private" up, you can ask me what my worldview is, like others on this site and I would (like I have with them), happily oblige.


11. Was that meant to be a rhetorical dig or an ad hominem?

i will reply in kind, and say "very Christ-like of you"

#62 gilbo12345

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:40 PM

I'll address this, and this only. Because you hang yourself. Your disingenuous words expose your lack of integrity, thus making your entire last post, along with your character, suspect :wacko: :





IGNORED

:get_a_clue:


Lol I thought you meant theistic evolutionist. I should have realised my mistake... I am sorry..

However this still doesn't excuse you from not addressing the OP of the thread and my asking for evidence from you. So I'd sum this reply as an attempt to induce a red herring since you have done nothing to solve any of my refutations nor to give any evidence for your claims. It can also be characterised as an attempt to demonize my character since I made one mistake and thought you meant something else. you've pointed the mistake out and I have apologised... How is this lacking integrity?

(just as you apologised for your assumption, did I make a big song and dance claiming you lack integrity from such a simple mistake?? NO I forgave you, in point 5 of post#61 which is what Jesus calls all Christians to do... It is ironic that in this case the theistic agnostic shows more forgiveness than the Christian)

Lacking integrity would be more like..
making claims and then refusing to support said claims when asked
willfully ignoring the bulk of someone's post
misrepresentation / slander


Its quite disingenuous to complain about stuff that is ignored when you yourself allow concessions for yourself to ignore. I am STILL waiting for the evidence I respectfully asked you for in post#54

" Now as I have asked in my questions I am asking YOU for quotation of the Bible to support your claims. I have done this at your request, (the secrets of God quotes), hence I respectfully ask the same of you."

It is ironic that after the call for evidence on your claims that you began the fiasco of ignoring my points... Wouldn't this constitute as the sin of pride in that rather than face the facts you'd prefer to ignore the problem, (which you yourself said you'd do, and is shown in your willful cutting out of the bulk of my post#54).

#63 NewPath

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 01:29 AM

I think what it comes down to is that the more you add to the Bible, the more it has the potential to change important doctrine of salvation, so I caution you on overspeculation. It is fun to speculate, but sometimes I don't even post my speculation if I think it might lead people of weaker faith astray. God gave us the history of the Bible as sufficient to see who we are and why we are here, who He is, and how to obtain salvation. If He though we should know about aliens, or human beings fleeing the earth during the flood, He would have told us.

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." Genesis 6: 5-8

The only person that He revealed the flood to before it happened was Noah. Why would He allow other "previously unmentioned ever before in the Bible" astronauts to escape His wrath? This theory just seems silly given a thorough reading and understanding of the history of the Bible. You have to base it completely off of what the Bible does not rule out explicitly, which is a rather shaky way to reason Biblically.

For the record, I am an alien agnostic, and I will remain this way until I see aliens in front of my face. Call me a doubting Thomas if you like.


I agree with you actually, its needless amusing speculation. Regarding alien sightings I'm a cynic , but regarding the possibility that the universe is filled with interesting life-forms that do not come near to earth, knowing the nature of God I'm quite sure that the universe is full of life. But that is all just speculation.

#64 gilbo12345

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:12 AM

I agree with you actually, its needless amusing speculation. Regarding alien sightings I'm a cynic , but regarding the possibility that the universe is filled with interesting life-forms that do not come near to earth, knowing the nature of God I'm quite sure that the universe is full of life. But that is all just speculation.


I am the same, it is speculation but still a possibility, its impossible to claim either way since there is no actual evidence.

#65 JayShel

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:23 AM

I am the same, it is speculation but still a possibility, its impossible to claim either way since there is no actual evidence.


It's a slippery slope though. Logic is a tricky animal. The Bible never rules out a a lone unicorn floating around the universe in space but I have no inclination to believe that it exists.

#66 gilbo12345

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:39 AM

It's a slippery slope though. Logic is a tricky animal. The Bible never rules out a a lone unicorn floating around the universe in space but I have no inclination to believe that it exists.


Of course, I understand. Yet if a lone unicorn was found there would be no cause to claim that the Bible is wrong. I know that some people already feel that if aliens were found that would somehow prove the Bible wrong... Hence I am preemptively rebutting this since aliens do not contradict the Bible.

Furthermore claims that since it is not in the Bible then it isn't true are also as slippery ;)

#67 Remnant of The Abyss

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:36 AM

knowing the nature of God I'm quite sure that the universe is full of life. But that is all just speculation.


And I don't disagree that there may be life forms, non humanoid, in other parts of the universe.

But I wouldn't be surprised to learn, when we get to Heaven, that the universe is in fact completely devoid of any and all other life. Because in my viewpoint of knowing the nature of God, I can understand how He could and would create a universe with galaxies and stars just for man's wonder (and nighttime illumination for the earth). I can see Him doing this to show us, as well, when we get to Heaven that it was ALL just for our wonder, to show us once again, in addition to sending us His son Jesus Christ, just how important we are to Him. :)

But that's just the way I see it. :)

#68 Remnant of The Abyss

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:40 AM

It's a slippery slope though. Logic is a tricky animal. The Bible never rules out a a lone unicorn floating around the universe in space but I have no inclination to believe that it exists.


Oh come on Jay, there's plenty of evidence for this!

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#69 JayShel

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:46 PM

I have always wanted an evolutionist to breed a unicorn....maybe one day...

#70 Isabella

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:17 PM

I have always wanted an evolutionist to breed a unicorn....maybe one day...


We're trying but the horses and narwhals just don't want to mate!
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#71 JayShel

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 06:06 PM

We're trying but the horses and narwhals just don't want to mate!


Don't forget, I want to see some wings too. :P




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