7 replies to this topic

[Remnant of The Abyss]

I became aware of the following site by reading about it from the trolls on IMDb pro-God forums (Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (2008), The Passion of the Christ (2004)).

I post this in support of another thread here "Atheists Are Obsessed With God" http://www.evolution...ts&fromsearch=1

From all of my discussions with atheists on the internet I've concluded that the main reason why they attack Christians and Christianity with such vigor is that they are afraid of our political clout. They have personally told me numerous times this is why many hate Christians. So they attempt to bring down Christianity in any way that they can while promoting all forms of immorality and debauchery.

The website I'm talking about, the "Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" (over 21K members) http://www.venganza.org/ shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here that it takes aim squarely at the CvE debate as one of it's main targets. Many of the members of this site are the ones we now see in droves on Christian sites today, playing their silly little games.

If only these folks would put their energy into taking responsibility for their own souls, seeking the one true God of the Bible and receiving the free gift of redemption through Jesus Christ. If only.

Here are some of their absurdities. Laugh if you will, but please remember that it's also so very sad.


- They have a store that sells T-shirts, Mugs, Stickers, Posters, and other merchandise to "Support the Cause"

- Purchase their "Gospel":
An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID.

- The mocking letter "that got it all started" (27K facebook "likes"):
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
http://www.venganza....ut/open-letter/

- Their stated 'beliefs':
Pastafarianism is a real religion.

Most of us do not believe a religion – Christianity, Islam, Pastafarianiasm – requires literal belief in order to provide spiritual enlightenment. That is, we can be part of a community without becoming indoctrinated. There are many levels of belief.

By design, the only dogma allowed in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the rejection of dogma. That is, there are no strict rules and regulations, there are no rote rituals and prayers and other nonsense. Every member has a say in what this church is and what it becomes.
http://www.venganza.org/about/

- A response from the site's guru to a received 'hate mail" (bold added for emphasis):

The point of our church is not to offend, but understand it is bound to happen. Most of us in the Church of FSM are not anti-religion, and we have many Pastafarians who are active members of mainstream religions. Part of what we’re doing here is questioning ideas considered rude to question. Or, knocking down religion a peg – however you want to look at it. We think it’s a dangerous situation for institutions and ideas to be above scrutiny.

At the risk of spoiling the “Save Your Heathen Soul” joke, I’ll explain it. You see, Christians often threaten nonbelievers with THEIR hell-place for various sins or sinful lifestyles – either explicitly, or indirectly, or in a judging veiled-friendliness sort of way. But nonbelievers DON’T BELIEVE IN YOUR HELL. Aside from the fact that we find it offensive the idea that we need a rulebook to define our morality, it is a strange proposition to be invited to believe in scripture in order to be saved from a consequence of it. The “Save Your Heathen Soul” joke is a nod to other nonbelievers who have experienced this phenomenon...

...So, understand that around here there is an effort not to offend people, but at the same take a hard look at the strange business of religion. And in this way we give Glory to The Almighty Flying Spaghetti Monster, the one and only True God, who someday I hope Touches you with His Noodly Appendage so that you may know His Loving Embrace.
-bobby
http://www.venganza....gory/hate-mail/

Let's play a little game.

Does anyone see a disconnect here? More to the point, a contradiction? All the clues are in this post, so let's see who can be the first to point out the contradiction (there may in fact be more than the one that I've duly noted).

[JayShel]

Actually this has already been done before. It is called (LaVeyan) Satanism. It is basically anti-church, anti-doctrine. No originality here...just a different spin on an old concept that has been around since 1966...*yawn*

[Remnant of The Abyss]

Actually this has already been done before. It is called (LaVeyan) Satanism. It is basically anti-church, anti-doctrine. No originality here...just a different spin on an old concept that has been around since 1966...*yawn*

You know, I've seen the ties to humanism while browsing that site, but I didn't see any mention of Satan so it never occurred to me that this might be Satanism. I always thought that Satanism involved the fallen angel Satan, but after reading from the link you provided I now understand this form of Satanism:

In his most important essay, "Satanism: The Feared Religion", the Church of Satan's current leader Peter H. Gilmore states:

“Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice.

It explains their guru's adamant belief that there is no Hell.

It appears this growing "church", has the sole purpose to mock and disparage all things Christian. It only exists because Christianity exists, hence the supposition that they are "obsessed with God".

That stated, I still believe there's a contradiction here in what the guru states and the reality of how they interact with Christians.

[JayShel]

Since Satan is the father of lies and he is behind the lies that they believe, it is fitting that the name of their church pays him tribute. It's sad that they don't know just how successful he is. The hardest enemy to fight is the one you don't even know exists. Satan has wanted people to think they are their own gods since the Garden of Eden.

[Calypsis4]

I became aware of the following site by reading about it from the trolls on IMDb pro-God forums (Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (2008), The Passion of the Christ (2004)).

The same here...on the same two threads! 2006 & 2007.

What was your handle during that time? I might remember you.

I think the very worst atheist sites I've seen are #1 Larger Than Life, and #2 The Straight Dope. I lasted about a week or so on #1 but not even three hours on #2. But I had a hoot of a time with the 'Straight Dopers'...while it lasted. That was fun.

Best wishes.

[Remnant of The Abyss]

The same here...on the same two threads! 2006 & 2007.

What was your handle during that time? I might remember you.

I think the very worst atheist sites I've seen are #1 Larger Than Life, and #2 The Straight Dope. I lasted about a week or so on #1 but not even three hours on #2. But I had a hoot of a time with the 'Straight Dopers'...while it lasted. That was fun.

Best wishes.

Hey! Small world...

I actually still post on those two threads, under the same handle, but you were before my time. I've been posting on those two for a little over a year pretty consistently. But I really don't do much any more but post a quick rebuttal and then let it go. Posting on those two boards is like beating your head against a brick wall; the only time it feels good is when you stop. Debating those God-haters really is futile, so I just rebuke basically.

[Remnant of The Abyss]

OK, nobody has found the contradiction... so now it's time to make my point. The guru of the site states the following:

You see, Christians often threaten nonbelievers with THEIR hell-place for various sins or sinful lifestyles – either explicitly, or indirectly, or in a judging veiled-friendliness sort of way. But nonbelievers DON’T BELIEVE IN YOUR HELL. Aside from the fact that we find it offensive the idea that we need a rulebook to define our morality, it is a strange proposition to be invited to believe in scripture in order to be saved from a consequence of it. The “Save Your Heathen Soul” joke is a nod to other nonbelievers who have experienced this phenomenon...

Herein lies the contradiction as I see it. The author states:

- unbelievers are "threatened"
- unbelievers "don't believe in Hell"
- unbelievers "find it offensive" when Hell/morality is discussed.

So IF unbelievers REALLY don't believe in Hell, why should they take such offense to the suggestion (the "threatening") that they were going to Hell?

It would be like me saying to someone "If you don't change your ways, the Universe's Flying Unicorn is going to bite you on your rear end". It's total baloney, and nobody should or would ever take offense to this nonsense whatsoever. Because it's obviously unbelievable nonsense.

But the fact that unbelievers DO take offense to the threat of Hell tells me that they are not really strong in their convictions that there is no God, and that Christians are wrong. But WE already know this about unbelievers, don't we?

I just figured I'd point out their glaring hypocrisy which is easily found on their own ridiculous website.

[Calypsis4]

OK, nobody has found the contradiction... so now it's time to make my point. The guru of the site states the following:

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Herein lies the contradiction as I see it. The author states:

- unbelievers are "threatened"
- unbelievers "don't believe in Hell"
- unbelievers "find it offensive" when Hell/morality is discussed.

So IF unbelievers REALLY don't believe in Hell, why should they take such offense to the suggestion (the "threatening") that they were going to Hell?

It would be like me saying to someone "If you don't change your ways, the Universe's Flying Unicorn is going to bite you on your rear end". It's total baloney, and nobody should or would ever take offense to this nonsense whatsoever. Because it's obviously unbelievable nonsense.

But the fact that unbelievers DO take offense to the threat of Hell tells me that they are not really strong in their convictions that there is no God, and that Christians are wrong. But WE already know this about unbelievers, don't we?

I just figured I'd point out their glaring hypocrisy which is easily found on their own ridiculous website.

Yes, that's a good point. If there is no hell nor judgment to come then why are the skeptics so 'offended'?