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#1 Mountainboy19682

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:26 PM

Another question handled badly by Creationists is suffering. Its one of the major reasons cited by Charles Darwin for losing his faith. Remember he was brought up as a Christian and at one point had his ambitions set on becoming a priest.

However in a letter to Asa Grey in 1860 he said " I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidae with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars"
But why make the poor Caterpillar suffer?

I can (just) see the argument for testing his creations - as in Job chapter 2 verse 3

" Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”
4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”
7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. 8 Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes"

The famous Philip Johnson in Darwin on Trial suggest that readers who doubt the need for suffering should read Job - but I don't find it mucj of an argument.

Other writers blame Eve and something called "The Fall". This also seems a wierd argument. Why should present day creatures be afflicted because of someting that happened to one person 6,000 years ago?

#2 Hawkins

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:56 AM

The big picture is, any where outside the realm of God is supposed to be fulll of tragedies. Or else you don't need to go to Heaven, just stay where you are as you are already in paradise. However planet earth is never a paradise, it is a wilderness full of wolves, with Satan to be the god of this realm.

Humans are a self-centered species, that's why they assume that earth should be a paradise although the Bible clearly says that ever since Adam was driven out of Eden when are no longer inside God's realm, that's why we should put effort in making our way back to His Kingdom in Heaven.

As for Job, he never complains anyway, which says, God sometimes will put his servants to a state of suffering under the circumstance that they don't complain. That's why there are matyrdom all the times. There are the killing of His prophets, apostles, disciples all the times but the point is they never complain because understand God well enough to trust Him and our short suffering here on earth is nothing comparing to the building up of an eternity called Heaven.

We as humans are on the top of the food chain, which means, we kill everything else all the time for the food we need. Perhaps you feel that they are suffering but most likely they don't feel so. It seems to me you manifested your compassion to the wrong place. Our compassion should be for those humans who are still living in poverty, say, those poor living in Africa. We should do whatever we can to help them out, we should pull all our money and resources to save them. But we choose not to due to the lack of love, we prefer to spending money surfing the net while watching they die. If so why the compassion for the catepillars, and why the complaint about your own suffering?!

#3 gilbo12345

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:15 AM

The big picture is, any where outside the realm of God is supposed to be fulll of tragedies. Or else you don't need to go to Heaven, just stay where you are as you are already in paradise. However planet earth is never a paradise, it is a wilderness full of wolves, with Satan to be the god of this realm.

Humans are a self-centered species, that's why they assume that earth should be a paradise although the Bible clearly says that ever since Adam was driven out of Eden when are no longer inside God's realm, that's why we should put effort in making our way back to His Kingdom in Heaven.

As for Job, he never complains anyway, which says, God sometimes will put his servants to a state of suffering under the circumstance that they don't complain. That's why there are matyrdom all the times. There are the killing of His prophets, apostles, disciples all the times but the point is they never complain because understand God well enough to trust Him and our short suffering here on earth is nothing comparing to the building up of an eternity called Heaven.

We as humans are on the top of the food chain, which means, we kill everything else all the time for the food we need. Perhaps you feel that they are suffering but most likely they don't feel so. It seems to me you manifested your compassion to the wrong place. Our compassion should be for those humans who are still living in poverty, say, those poor living in Africa. We should do whatever we can to help them out, we should pull all our money and resources to save them. But we choose not to due to the lack of love, we prefer to spending money surfing the net while watching they die. If so why the compassion for the catepillars, and why the complaint about your own suffering?!


The big picture is, any where outside the realm of God is supposed to be fulll of tragedies. Or else you don't need to go to Heaven, just stay where you are as you are already in paradise. However planet earth is never a paradise, it is a wilderness full of wolves, with Satan to be the god of this realm.

Humans are a self-centered species, that's why they assume that earth should be a paradise although the Bible clearly says that ever since Adam was driven out of Eden when are no longer inside God's realm, that's why we should put effort in making our way back to His Kingdom in Heaven.

As for Job, he never complains anyway, which says, God sometimes will put his servants to a state of suffering under the circumstance that they don't complain. That's why there are matyrdom all the times. There are the killing of His prophets, apostles, disciples all the times but the point is they never complain because understand God well enough to trust Him and our short suffering here on earth is nothing comparing to the building up of an eternity called Heaven.

We as humans are on the top of the food chain, which means, we kill everything else all the time for the food we need. Perhaps you feel that they are suffering but most likely they don't feel so. It seems to me you manifested your compassion to the wrong place. Our compassion should be for those humans who are still living in poverty, say, those poor living in Africa. We should do whatever we can to help them out, we should pull all our money and resources to save them. But we choose not to due to the lack of love, we prefer to spending money surfing the net while watching they die. If so why the compassion for the catepillars, and why the complaint about your own suffering?!


I suggest we get the money from the government funding on projects to do with evolution ;) Considering that there is no actual technological advancement that can come from belief in evolution it seems that all the money spent on it is wasted on mere academic speculation... (For example the multitude of papers on the "debate" about where the Wollemi pine fits within cladistics...... I mean who really cares to the exact location, there is no technological benefit, therefore there doesn't need to be paper after paper after paper about the same thing over and over. As some of the papers I read on the subject, they claim in the discussion that the answer cannot be known in that there is an impasse, if so then why continue to study it using the same methods used before?)
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#4 Portillo

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:13 AM

Alot of people ask the question, "if there is a God why is there so much suffering." But conveniently ignore the question, "if there is no God why is there so much good?"

#5 Bonedigger

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:26 AM

Alot of people ask the question, "if there is a God why is there so much suffering." But conveniently ignore the question, "if there is no God why is there so much good?"


Or even further: If there is a just God, why is anyone even allowed to continue?

2 Pet 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
(NKJ)




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