quote=Angelus-Tenebrae,Dec 1 2005, 01:09 PM
The production of a racemic mixture of amino acids in no way proves that abiogenesis is possible. It proves nothing.
It doesn't have to prove anything. Science does not require proof; only evidences and disproving. Now, I'm not saying that abiogenesis is true, since I know even less about its probability than I do about evolution, but it is the only existing theory in science to explain the origin of life.
No life is possible without DNA. DNA is far too complex to self organize. It's never been observed to happen, and laws of probability absolutely prohibit it from happening.
Complex in what sense? That it's composed of too many carbon substituents? That it's "too long"? Favorable chemical interactions between molecules is indepent of whether the product contains a lot or few carbon centers. You may be thinking of an unfavorable reaction where all the carbon centers get together all at once, and you would be correct to say that such a reaction would be highly unlikely. But chemical reactions rarely work that way; they work in small steps, that are more favorable, and possibly faster. Even if you don't agree about DNA, there is still the possibility of catalysts, protein enzymes or RNA ribozymes.
All of those biochemicals are useless outside the confines of a living cell.
They are not. They have been observed to be replicating outside of the cell, as is done very often in techniques used in microbiology. As an example, PCR involves using the self-replicating mechanism of DNA to reproduce extra copies of DNA so that they can be studied, yet the DNA is replicated outside of the cell, but with presence of the required proteins. The only difference is that
PCR uses denaturation to emulate the effect of the DNA helicase, but the presence of the cell is not required for DNA helicase to function. Many other techniques involving DNA probes like Southern, northern and western blotting are also done in vitro.
How many base pairs are in a DNA molecule? The number of possible combinations is unfathomable.
Are you assuming that only one of those combinations is correct? That would not be true because many combinations can allow for a functional cell. Given that there are more than a few measly moles of DNA, and any process leading to formation of DNA can happen simultaneously, and not sequentially, there will be some DNA strands adequate for life.
The likelihood of a simplest conceivable DNA molecule self assembling under optimal conditions has been calculated to be ~10^-40,000
If the DNA is formed sequentially, or simultaneously? Even if we are picking on DNA, that wasn't the only primitive self-replicator I've mentioned.
DNA cannot survive outside of a cell. If you disagree, please so state.
I seem to recall that some creationist, you or someone else claimed that DNA does not live. As I've explained before, DNA does replicate both inside and outside of the cell. The only criteria that should be considered is the presence of the necessary proteins and conditions. Whether or not DNA functions is independent of whether it's inside or outside of the cell. The cell membrane is simply a phospholipid bilayer that is selectively permeable to substances inside and outside of the cell, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about the proteins inside or outside the cell.
Peer review exposed the experiment to be fraudulent. Even if all its claims were true, it still would prove nothing. You can't assume that because amino acids can self organize, that a cell can self organize. That is completely illogical. It's another reckless extrapolation of evolution.
Urey-Miller experiment is actually well accepted. If it were fraudulent, then scientists wouldn't continue to make further experiments similar to those of Urey-Miller. We did not make the conclusion that cells self organize because amino acids can. Amino acids or catalysts can self organize and affect other reactions or processes that will allow a cell to form. As long as amino acids and catalysts can catalyze and make processes favorable for all the other necessary components for a cell, as well as the formation of the cell, then it is possible. It would be unscientific to stop at amino acids and catalysts being self-organizing. The significance of the self-organization of amino acids and catalysts can be researched.