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#1 Dave

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 08:55 PM

Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading posts here for some time now, and have decided that because I might want to enter into discussions it would be appropriate for me to introduce myself.

I guess the most revealing thing I can say about myself relative to the main topics here is that I look at life through Bible-colored glasses. I believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God, and that it can be consulted for the truth in ALL things.

You often hear the claim that the Bible is not a science book. That is true as far as it goes. By the same token, it is not a history book. Neither is it a book of archeology. Nor Astronomy. However, an interesting thing about the Bible is that in every field of study, whether it be a hard science or a soft science, history, archeology or astronomy, whenever something in the Bible can be tested in that particular field, or a new discovery is made, the Bible is invariably proven true.

In other words, no new scientific, historic, or archeological findings have contradicted God’s word that has been in the Bible for thousands of years. There is much in the Bible that man won’t understand and won’t be able to “prove” until we can ask the Creator face to face. However, for those things that currently can be tested or discovered, the Bible is authenticated as to its accuracy every time.

I love science, but my belief is that if scientific findings contradict the Bible then scientists need to go back to the field or their labs and keep working until they come up with something closer to the truth. I believe that basically all scientists, whether they are naturalistic-only or Bible-believing, have the same evidence to work with. What differentiates them are the assumptions that they begin with. I believe that Bible-believing scientists have an advantage over naturalistic-only scientists in that their assumptions allow for examining a wider range of science – hence, allowing them to get closer to reality. I have zero patience and tolerance for anybody who uses the argument that a Bible-believing person can’t do science – a la “Creationism isn’t science.” As far as I’m concerned, that statement is a debate-ender right there, because the person making the statement is “willingly ignorant” (2Peter 3:5), is probably incorrigibly so, and is just wasting everybody’s time.

I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Williams for his dedication to running a “clean” evolution-creation discussion board. Believe me, it’s a rare thing indeed. I’m coming off of a two-month-long “detoxification” from a very unpleasant experience on another discussion board on a site hosted by a Bible-believing Christian. I’m convinced the site’s owner is a dedicated, committed Christian, but his EVO board is out of control and populated overwhelmingly by ardently atheistic, humanistic, naturalistic evolutionists. Their favorite past-time is playing “Whack the Mole” with any unsuspecting Bible-believing Christian who dares to raise his head above ground level. The process is brutal to watch happen to others, and it’s an unbelievably frustrating experience to go through if you are the “mole.” Their main stock in trade is equivocation, mockery, sarcasm, taunting, nit-picking, double and triple-teaming and outright blasphemy. It is an extremely unhealthy environment for people who love the Lord and take Him at His word, and it is beyond me why the owner lets that kind of behavior go on.

So, I’ve been watching Mr. Williams’ board here closely, hoping to discover if it truly is a safe harbor for rational, mature, respectful, adult discussions about evolution and creation. What I have been very pleasantly surprised to discover is that when advance guards from other EVO boards, like talk-origins, etc., come here to practice the tactics I mentioned in the previous paragraph they are immediately dealt with. The “Strictly Enforced” rules really are just that. Kudos to Mr. Williams. And I say that even if I some day am the one who might get harpooned for showing too much “enthusiasm” and getting carried away with debate.

It’s risky to mention names right now because who knows what the future may hold for my relationship with folks here, but I must give credit where credit is due and say that I am particularly impressed with “Chance,” who has shown himself to be unusually gracious, respectful and tolerant as a self-declared atheistic evolutionist. If any creationists on this board have tried to “debate” elsewhere, I’m sure they realize they should be grateful to have someone like Chance as their “opponent” here. Other atheistic or agnostic pro-evolution participants on this board would do well to observe Chance and emulate him.

I suppose I should wind this down. I’d just like to close by saying that what drew me to this board was the evolution-creation discussions, but you might also see me participating in the “Hidden Treasures in the Bible” forum and other forums as the muse strikes me.

Dave

#2 Fred Williams

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Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:27 PM

Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading posts here for some time now, and have decided that because I might want to enter into discussions it would be appropriate for me to introduce myself.

I guess the most revealing thing I can say about myself relative to the main topics here is that I look at life through Bible-colored glasses. I believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God, and that it can be consulted for the truth in ALL things.

You often hear the claim that the Bible is not a science book. That is true as far as it goes. By the same token, it is not a history book. Neither is it a book of archeology. Nor Astronomy. However, an interesting thing about the Bible is that in every field of study, whether it be a hard science or a soft science, history, archeology or astronomy, whenever something in the Bible can be tested in that particular field, or a new discovery is made, the Bible is invariably proven true.

In other words, no new scientific, historic, or archeological findings have contradicted God’s word that has been in the Bible for thousands of years. There is much in the Bible that man won’t understand and won’t be able to “prove” until we can ask the Creator face to face. However, for those things that currently can be tested or discovered, the Bible is authenticated as to its accuracy every time.

I love science, but my belief is that if scientific findings contradict the Bible then scientists need to go back to the field or their labs and keep working until they come up with something closer to the truth. I believe that basically all scientists, whether they are naturalistic-only or Bible-believing, have the same evidence to work with. What differentiates them are the assumptions that they begin with. I believe that Bible-believing scientists have an advantage over naturalistic-only scientists in that their assumptions allow for examining a wider range of science – hence, allowing them to get closer to reality. I have zero patience and tolerance for anybody who uses the argument that a Bible-believing person can’t do science – a la “Creationism isn’t science.” As far as I’m concerned, that statement is a debate-ender right there, because the person making the statement is “willingly ignorant” (2Peter 3:5), is probably incorrigibly so, and is just wasting everybody’s time.

I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Williams for his dedication to running a “clean” evolution-creation discussion board. Believe me, it’s a rare thing indeed. I’m coming off of a two-month-long “detoxification” from a very unpleasant experience on another discussion board on a site hosted by a Bible-believing Christian. I’m convinced the site’s owner is a dedicated, committed Christian, but his EVO board is out of control and populated overwhelmingly by ardently atheistic, humanistic, naturalistic evolutionists. Their favorite past-time is playing “Whack the Mole” with any unsuspecting Bible-believing Christian who dares to raise his head above ground level. The process is brutal to watch happen to others, and it’s an unbelievably frustrating experience to go through if you are the “mole.” Their main stock in trade is equivocation, mockery, sarcasm, taunting, nit-picking, double and triple-teaming and outright blasphemy. It is an extremely unhealthy environment for people who love the Lord and take Him at His word, and it is beyond me why the owner lets that kind of behavior go on.

So, I’ve been watching Mr. Williams’ board here closely, hoping to discover if it truly is a safe harbor for rational, mature, respectful, adult discussions about evolution and creation. What I have been very pleasantly surprised to discover is that when advance guards from other EVO boards, like talk-origins, etc., come here to practice the tactics I mentioned in the previous paragraph they are immediately dealt with. The “Strictly Enforced” rules really are just that. Kudos to Mr. Williams. And I say that even if I some day am the one who might get harpooned for showing too much “enthusiasm” and getting carried away with debate.

It’s risky to mention names right now because who knows what the future may hold for my relationship with folks here, but I must give credit where credit is due and say that I am particularly impressed with “Chance,” who has shown himself to be unusually gracious, respectful and tolerant as a self-declared atheistic evolutionist. If any creationists on this board have tried to “debate” elsewhere, I’m sure they realize they should be grateful to have someone like Chance as their “opponent” here. Other atheistic or agnostic pro-evolution participants on this board would do well to observe Chance and emulate him.

I suppose I should wind this down. I’d just like to close by saying that what drew me to this board was the evolution-creation discussions, but you might also see me participating in the “Hidden Treasures in the Bible” forum and other forums as the muse strikes me.

Dave

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Hello Dave, and welcome to the board! Thanks for your comments, it is stories like yours that help explain why we do things the way we do here. I hope you find the forum useful, and I look forward to your participation, especially in the "Hidden Treasures" section! Speaking for myself, there is much I want to post there, I just need to take the time to do it. :unsure: The Amelekites and the book of Esther is an interesting one, I'll have to add that as soon as I get a chence...

Fred

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 11:38 AM

Hi Dave, welcome to the boards.

#4 chance

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 03:15 PM

[quote name='Dave' date='Nov 29 2005, 01:55 PM']
Wow - thanks for the vote of confidence (I’m blushing). But I am here for exactly the same reason you quoted [quote] I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Williams for his dedication to running a “clean” evolution-creation discussion board. Believe me, it’s a rare thing indeed. I’m coming off of a two-month-long “detoxification” from a very unpleasant experience on another discussion board on a site hosted by a Bible-believing Christian. I’m convinced the site’s owner is a dedicated, committed Christian, but his EVO board is out of control and populated overwhelmingly by ardently atheistic, humanistic, naturalistic evolutionists. Their favorite past-time is playing “Whack the Mole” with any unsuspecting Bible-believing Christian who dares to raise his head above ground level. [/quote] My bold –

indeed it is a very rare, so rare I feel a bit protective of it. As you have experienced such discussion is easily hijacked by those who would prefer disruption to honest debate. Part of the problem IMO is that we in the west are so conditioned to democracy that it feels so wrong to censor thought, trouble is that allows people in who do not respect that freedom.




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