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Why A Cure Will Cost More Then Allowing...


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#1 Guest_Admin3_*

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 09:28 PM

This is my opinion, and is not the opinion of this forum.

How much would it really cost to find a cure for cancer? Has anyone ever pondered it? Some might say that this is a conspiracy theory, but after you read what I am about to show, you might change your mind.

Let's look at all the jobs and money and jobs cancer makes every year. On the fore-front you might not think it is very much. But when I show all that is connected to cancer, and all that will be lost to a cure, you will see a much bigger picture that has the love of money written over human suffering. This type of greed can be traced all through our past. So do you think we have become more advanced in our thinking not to be swayed to look at money as more valuable than life itself?

While in a hospital one time. I was told that the hospital had two floors dedicated to two diseases. One was for cancer, one was for aids. On each floor, try to comprehend the medical staff, the medical equipment, the specialized medical equipment, the doctors, consulting from others in the field, the field reps, etc...

But I only touched on the surface of this. Now ponder the schooling it requires for nurses, doctors, maintenance crew for the hospital, as well as the medical equipment. Specialist to run that equipment, etc...

But I still only touched on the surface. Let's ponder the drugs. You have the sales people, the research people, books on the research. Money spent to do research. Employees at the drug companies. The schooling they have to have. Books have to be written, that the medical staff has to be made aware of before drugs can be given. years of research.

But there's still more. Now you have the companies that make and sell the medical equipment. Medical equipment for cancer, aids, and all types of diseases. You also have research, schooling these people have to go through. Books written on how to use equipment. Even some equipment is only good for certain diseases. Some drugs that millions have been invested in, are only good for one type of disease. Example: What else would you take chemo for?

Then we have doctors who only specialize in certain fields of work. A cure is found, now they are out of a Job. Every doctor has at least two nurses that help him. For every doctor that's out of a job, at least two more jobs are lost. etc...

But that's still not the end of it. Now you have insurance companies. Through the fear of getting cancer, they sell insurance. So how much insurance policies would be lost through a cure? How many insurance companies would go under?

Then you have insurance companies who sell insurance to the hospitals, and to the doctors. They lose out as well.

So we have how many fields affected by a cure?
1) Hospitals and all their employees (nurses, doctors, maintenance, etc.)
2) Doctors, and all their employees
3) Nurses.
4) Medical equipment supplies, and all their employees.
5) The schools, their staff which teaches the medical field.
6) The research field, and all the employees it employs.
7) The drug companies and all their employees.
8) The money vested in research for each drug.
9) Drugs that can only be used to treat one type of disease, but is not good for anything else.
10) Insurance companies, and all their employees.
Etc.... Etc....

But, I'm not finished yet.

How many of these companies have their stock on the stock market? So who all does it affect from there also?

Then we have those who do little jobs, that there whole existence is due to contracts made with said companies. Example: Those who would deliver the goods produced by these companies to get to where they can be used. So we have the go between jobs that are lost as well. How far into the market do they go?

1) Printing companies. Which includes graphic designers, paper companies, software companies etc... (for brochures, ads, books, etc...)
2) Delivery companies.
3) Websites that make money off training, and keeping people up to date with latest stuff.
4) People we never see, but are there. Such as those who come in at night to clean etc...
5) Magazines that specialize in the medical field.
6) Books printed and sold for medical purposes for specific disease that is now cured, therefore no need.

And it filters down a few more levels as well.

But last but not least. There's the government. Anytime money is made, taxes have to be paid. Now with all the jobs created, how much tax does the government collect through diseases with no cure?

Get the picture? It would cost more to find a cure, then to just treat the symptoms and make the disease more livable.

So how much money, jobs etc... would be lost if a cure for cancer were found? I ponder it would be 100 billion dollars a year. So to those who make a big chunk of that money, which do you really think they would rather have? The money, or the cure?

The "love" of money is the root to all evil.

#2 Guest_George R_*

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 06:58 PM

Hi

I guess your reckoning is a fair estimate ... and it does point to a large loss of specialized cash flow if a cure for cancer were found.

A real cure will affect directly the economic well-being of certain people ... others will be able to adjust very well ... since much medical care and medical research skills/technology are transferable.

I rarely believe in conspiracy theories .. so I don't look for a deliberate negligence against finding a cure.

Yet I do agree with you that a prevention or complete cure would hit drug companies hard... if the drug companies are "addicted" to cash from pills that just ease the symptoms/pain and prolong time with the disease.

And I would ask you consider the other side of the economic swing ... just like a pane of broken glass seems to create jobs (for the glazier) so any misfortune creates work ... (ref: Henry Hazlitt: "Economics in One Lesson")

The real productive use of all that money occurs in millions of other ways --- if the money instead is spent on what really provides benefit once cancer is cured.

To the economy, a one-time displaction & disruption will occur ... followed by the same money chansing other goods instead.

Chances are that the human value is not the only bargain in a cure for cancer ... the people who care and the patients themselves ... and their families .. will be left free to find creative and rewarding tasks outside the painful woe of disease.

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 07:53 AM

I have a good question. With all the advance technology we currently have, can anyone remember the last cure? All I see are drugs to treat symptoms, to make it more livable. I see no drug cures.

#4 chance

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 01:41 PM

Not my area, but don’t a large percentage of medicines treat the symptoms so that the bodies natural defences defeat the disease as in the case of viral infection. Bacterial infection can be fought directly with antibiotics, which are always changing.

Some breakthroughs just come from an understanding of the problem as in the case of stomach ulcers, now positively identified as a bacterial infection and not related to stress.

A new chemo therapy procedure is getting good results in Germany, soon to be adopted world wide.

I googled around and found thise interesting site

http://www.breakthroughdigest.com/

and there’s mechanical stuff that’s always getting better like this implant for lower back pain.
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#5 Desperado

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 09:40 PM

I have a good question. With all the advance technology we currently have, can anyone remember the last cure? All I see are drugs to treat symptoms, to make it more livable. I see no drug cures.

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I think to address the issue we first have to define the word "cure". A quick browse of Webster Online yields the following definitions:
a : recovery or relief from a disease
b : something (as a drug or treatment) that cures a disease

Following chance's lead, the mammalian immune system is the ultimate "cure," occasionally it just needs a little help from the medical community. Would remedies such as Zicam or Airborne, which reduce the severity and longevity of the common cold, not be considered "cures?"

Even in cancer research, I think it is safe to say that any of the various treatments that rid the body of neoplastic tissue should be considered "cures." When caught early and with appropirate therapy, non-melanoma skin cancer has a relatively high "cure rate."

As far as the cancer research conspiracy theory goes, while I agree the gov't may be capable of such actions to further stuff its pockets, I think this is one area that even 'big brother' wouldn't touch. In fact, the states of California and New York have made it possible to make a donation to the Prostate Cancer Foundation directly from your tax return form.

(http://www.prostatec...Find_a_Cure.htm)

The state will even match every dollar donated by taxpayers, and 100% goes directly to research. So to assume that the gov't is against cancer research, because of the economic impact a cure may bring might be just another "conspiracy theory" and nothing more.

Besides, I'm certainly no economist, but let us turn the original question around. How many new jobs would be created if a miracle "cure" was developed? Consruction of new research facilites and factories, truckers to ship the new medicine, training classes to teach techniques for administering the new treatment........ (let your mind wander here).

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:15 AM

If the treatment of symptoms, or helping our own body get rid of something quicker, were a cure. Then all drugs would cure.

Example: There was a documented case of a cancer cure right in my own town. It was reported on the news to the extent of even showing the medical side. By doctors, showing x-rays of before and after.

The story as reported on the news:
A black man was helping his brother out in a business he owned. While standing behind the counter, he coughed and blood came up. His brother insisted he go to the hospital, so he did. X-rays showed he was in the final stages of lung cancer. Doctor gave him 6 weeks to three months.

How bad was his lungs? From the x-rays, one lung was gone 90-95% eaten with cancer. The other was 50% gone. Doctors said that he should not even look towards hope of the regular treatments, that it might only give him maybe 2 months at the most. Or could kill him because of his weakened condition. He was told to prepare to die, no hope.

So the man went to see his pastor to help with the arrangements. Upon telling his pastor, the pastor opened his desk and pulled out a phone number and told him to call this man. The man was confused, the pastor assured him this man could help.

The man he went to see had a actual cure for cancer. He got the ingredients from an old Indian medicine man. He would not tell how it was made, but he gave a general idea. He said it was made from more than one bark of certain trees. And leaves that were in a certain stage of decay that produced a chemical that was needed. He brewed it all up like a tea in a huge vat.

He sold it at 50 dollars a gallon. And you had to drink 2-3 glasses a day. The black man could not afford it, but his whole family and friends split the bill so it did not cost everyone that much.

Three months later, he went back to his doctor. The man about fainted because he thought he was seeing a ghost. The black man looked better than he has in a long time. So the doctor wanted tests run to see what was going on, and document this cure, if that's what it was. The x-rays showed the cancer almost gone. But, you could tell it was there because it left some scar tissue behind, but, it looked like that was going away too. The cancer doctored was amazed, and wanted a sample of what ever it was this man was taking.

Upon testing it, they could only identify certain ingredients. The rest was unknown. At six months, the guys cancer was only the size of a pea in one lung, the other lung was totally clear and functioning. Several t.v. news stations picked up on the story. Websites went up with pics and everything. I thought, wow, finally a cure for cancer.

Soon the government got involved. Started making accusations, threats etc... (the usual stuff). Websites disappeared, news is now unattainable, it's like it never happened.

So where did I see this? A local news station had it on. The person who headed up the story was the main anchor person who was a cancer survivor herself. So she had special interest in this story. She went to the medical doctors, she showed the x-rays on tv. She interviewed the doctors. She interviewed the black man this happened to. She covered all bases to make sure this was not a fraud, or a hoax. And it was not. But the story just disappeared.

Was I the only one who saw it? No. That news station is the number one watched station in the northeast part of Florida. So thousands saw the same thing I did. So what happened to the story, and the evidence? Beats me. No body will talk about it, it's like it never happened. If I had known this would disappear like this, I would have bought a video of that report, and made copies of every website (news websites) that had that story. Conspiracy theory? Not when I saw it with my own eyes.

You can make your own conclusions about what happened. I'm not even going to ponder it. I already know what probably happened because there was a similar story where a similar thing happened. And the only reason I know what happened was because the guy in this story fled the country, and was able to tell what happened. Probably the same that happened to the other one.

Here's the news station just in case you think I'm kidding: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/

#7 chance

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 02:04 PM

OK, things that make me go hmmmmmmmmmm

a. He sold it at 50 dollars a gallon. By any measure that’s cheap.
b. He got the ingredients from an old Indian medicine man. No doubt the recipe handed down from his father. Now what are the chances that Indians new what cancer was, or could even tell the difference between cancer, TB, or pneumonia etc as they would all produce similar symptoms. It’s far more likely the Indians had a herbal remedy for a cough (symptom). lets assume it works for a cough, do we then expect it to also work on a variety of underlying cause like cancer (genetic) or TB (infection)?
c. The x-rays showed the cancer almost gone. remission or misdiagnosis is not an unheard of event.
d. Soon the government got involved. Started making accusations, threats etc... (the usual stuff). Websites disappeared, news is now unattainable, it's like it never happened. I wonder why. In addition to a conspiracy, would you also contemplate the possibility of a scam? With the perpetrators caught out, and the media fooled (not that that would take much doing), do you think it should be considered?
e. She covered all bases to make sure this was not a fraud, or a hoax. And it was not. But the story just disappeared. Perhaps to save embarrassment for the station, when was the last time the media admitted to a mistake in reporting? Why the public might think their investigative method a tad sloppy, and change channels!
f. Why isn’t the man who sells this remedy rich by now?

I could not find the story on the website you posted, so I typed in “cancer” and found

•  Alternative Remedies Fail Government Tests  - CHICAGO (AP) -- For years, millions of Americans have spent billions of dollars on alternative remedies with unproven effects. Now, rigorous science is starting to test those treatments and mostly finds them lacking.


OK I know I’m sceptical about such things, but a ‘boiled’ remedy curing cancer IMO smells very dodgy.

#8 Desperado

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 08:07 PM

So where did I see this? A local news station had it on. The person who headed up the story was the main anchor person who was a cancer survivor herself. So she had special interest in this story. She went to the medical doctors, she showed the x-rays on tv. She interviewed the doctors. She interviewed the black man this happened to. She covered all bases to make sure this was not a fraud, or a hoax. And it was not. But the story just disappeared.

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I believe you saw the story you described, but without a reference, how can we verify it? Perhaps the story disappeared because it was later deemed a hoax?

Besides, believe it or not, the media is wrong from time to time (or all the time depending on who you ask). Take the West Virginia mining tradgedy at Sago mine last January. All of the national news stations were reporting that 12 of the 13 miners had been rescued alive, only to report the following morning that there had been "bad information," and only one survived.

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Maybe your trusted newsanchor received some "bad information."

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 09:10 PM

I would agree with what both of you say. But being that the black man actually went to the medical field first. They did all the usual cancer test and it came out all positive. And the guy's lung were black in the x-ray.

I just did a websearch and found a .gov website addressing this product. Shows the government involvement as I suspected.
http://www.fda.gov/f...ters/g5510d.htm

I see some websites are back. Have not done a search for this in a couple of years.

http://www.herbal-me...lessing-tea.php

The stuff is called God's blessing tea.

Being that the main ingredients was tree bark. Pycnogenol is a very strong antioxidant. And I know Indians made a lot of medicines that this pycnogenol was the base ingredient. It would seem to me that the medical field should look into this pycnogenol.

#10 chance

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 02:18 PM

It would seem to me that the medical field should look into this pycnogenol.

Well I strongly agree with you on this point. Indeed in Australia the Army funded such activities with the local Aborigines, i.e. to document local medicines and “bush tucker”, the purpose of which was to train soldiers in bush survival.

What usually happens in such cases the active ingredient in the local remedy is isolated, and if found beneficial produced in concentrated form and distributed as doctors prescription.




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