4 replies to this topic

[Christopher_John]

Clear cut evidence that even the media partake in twisting the truth about Creationism and Intelligent design.

In an article released recently on CNN's website titled Scientists enlist clergy in evolution battle, they identified Creationists as proponents of intelligent design who see the hand of God behind Evolution.

Intelligent design proponents see the hand of God behind evolution because, they say, life is too complex to be random.

First off, I don't believe in the idea of "Intelligent Design", to even propose that you could label our Lord God, of any measurable intelligence that mankind could be capable of understanding, is nothing but pure and utter blasphemy.

Secondly, the idea that a true Christian would even support the idea of evolution is just ridiculous. To actually believe that the Bible is the word of God, one cannot submit themselves to a theory like evolution because it was just not part of Gods plan.

John 1:14

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

are you gonna honestly tell me that a Christian would actually call the word a lie?

So as we can clearly see, even the media will attempt to trick the general population into thinking that a Creationist believes in evolution. If they can get even the agnostic formatted into accepting the theory as factual, then it will continue the goal of ridding mankind of God.

For the gullible ones out there that still haven't figured it out yet...evolution theory is a great way to finally make government the ultimate power on earth. With God no longer in the picture, Government becomes the highest authority. If you understood Prophecy the end times speaks of nations of power, evolution is by far the largest tool which is slowly but surely pushing the population away from God and closer to the New World Order.

How the evolution system works is by generation...like Adolph Hitler said "Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state" by slowly teaching children that mankind evolved on earth, the public school system incrementally formats children to look at religion in a perspective of under-developed or under educated past civilizations, which used to cling to old belief systems in order to establish higherarchy and civil obedience and also created religion because they lacked "Science" to understand origins and that mankind "evolved" on earth and were not "created".

Generation after generation, the parents of these children re-enforce the evolution theory to there kids because their parents learned it, the children are comforted by the fact that there parents believe in evolution but never actually studied the word of God, so their children won't study the word of God which slowly but surely gets God more distant from any further generations and so and so on...etc.

After so many generations, which is about where we are today, we become astounded by watching what type of immoral acts our youth's participate in today.

Over the years as generations passed and parents were outraged by their childrens behaviour which they (the government) blamed on Rock & Roll influence, the parents never stopped to realize that it wasn't the music that was causing the problem it was the decline of the Judeo Christian upbringing which was being washed out through the public school system via the evolution theory.

Here we are 2006 and we have the Communist News Network (CNN) trying to tell me, a creationist, that I believe God had a hand in evolution.

What a total and fabricated lie!...we believe in the word of God because the word was made flesh.

Well that's my rant for the day.

Peace

[chance]

Clear cut evidence that even the media partake in twisting the truth about Creationism and Intelligent design.

I am gob-smacked, CNN getting something wrong!

But to clarify, is the quote

“Intelligent design proponents see the hand of God behind evolution because, they say, life is too complex to be random

factually wrong or is it the inferred inclusiveness that all creationists believe such?

are you gonna honestly tell me that a Christian would actually call the word a lie?

I was under the impression that some Christians believe that such passages as genesis are allegorical, and thus is not a lie.

evolution theory is a great way to finally make government the ultimate power on earth. With God no longer in the picture, Government becomes the highest authority.

If not a government then who?

How the evolution system works is by generation...like Adolph Hitler said "Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state"

I believe the Jesuits have a similar saying, “Give me a child until he is seven and I have him for life”. 1984 anyone?

After so many generations, which is about where we are today, we become astounded by watching what type of immoral acts our youth's participate in today.

<snip>  the problem it was the decline of the Judeo Christian upbringing which was being washed out through the public school system via the evolution theory.

By this logic, the world population that is not Judeo Christian should be a moral vacuum, thousands of years of Chinese, Asian, Indian, aboriginal civilisations seem to have managed and run their civilisations just fine pre and post Darwin.

Here we are 2006 and we have the Communist News Network (CNN) trying to tell me, a creationist, that I believe God had a hand in evolution.

That’s not how I read the article, it appears that non-YEC clergy accept evolution, From the artical

But pastors are speaking out against it. Warren Eschbach, a retired Church of the Brethren pastor and professor at Lutheran Theological Seminary in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania helped sponsor a letter signed by more than 10,000 other clergy.

"We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests," they wrote.

Catholic experts have also joined the movement.

"The intelligent design movement belittles God. It makes God a designer, an engineer," said Vatican Observatory Director George Coyne, an astrophysicist who is also ordained. "The God of religious faith is a god of love. He did not design me."

my emphasis.

[Christopher_John]

I am gob-smacked, CNN getting something wrong!

But to clarify, is the quote  factually wrong or is it the inferred inclusiveness that all creationists believe such?
I was under the impression that some Christians believe that such passages as genesis are allegorical, and thus is not a lie.

If not a government then who?
I believe the Jesuits have a similar saying, “Give me a child until he is seven and I have him for life”.  1984 anyone? 

By this logic, the world population that is not Judeo Christian should be a moral vacuum, thousands of years of Chinese, Asian, Indian, aboriginal civilisations seem to have managed and run their civilisations just fine pre and post Darwin.

That’s not how I read the article, it appears that non-YEC clergy accept evolution, From the artical  my emphasis.

I think you missed the whole point, twisting truth's is a very deceitful conspiracy.

Instead of focusing the main point of the article which is based on Evolution vs Creation, the header for the article implies that Christians do support evolution theory and the article implies the Catholic Church also.

When you read further into the article it reads as follows

," Scott said. "That doesn't mean intelligent design is dead as a very popular social movement. This is an idea that has got legs."

the following paragraph is quite interesting, the article goes on to implicate the Catholic Church following the Lutherian acceptance of I.D.

"We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests," they wrote.

Catholic experts have also joined the movement.

People are very predicatable, those that control the media realize that most will glance through an article without actually reading it in its entirety. Key words and individual sentences are used in order to trigger an individual into absorbing the implied meaning.

It's like those who grab one verse out of a doctrine to try and use it for contradiction.

When you read further after the individualized statement of "Catholic experts have also joined the movement. you will get a brief paragragh tightly grouped explaining the Vaticans position on Intelligent design.

"The intelligent design movement belittles God. It makes God a designer, an engineer," said Vatican Observatory Director George Coyne, an astrophysicist who is also ordained. "The God of religious faith is a god of love. He did not design me."

Coyne is not quoted as rejecting the idea of evolution, just the idea of intelligent design. What does the article imply theough?...it implies that there is a consensus or an acceptance on evolution theory in the Christian community, this is just not true...it is a falsehood.

The Bible clearly states:

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now if John 1:14 is to be taken literally:

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

then we have a problem with "Christians" believing in Jesus Christ, because the word is the Bible and if the word became flesh (Jesus Christ) then evolution doesn't have a leg to stand on in the Christian sense because the Bible says God breathed life into his nostrils and it doesn't say God evolved life into man over millions of years.

But to clarify, is the quote  factually wrong or is it the inferred inclusiveness that all creationists believe such?

It's not a question of getting others to believe that a Christian can support evolution, it's a way of re-enforcing the theory to the masses that even religious believers support evolution.

I was under the impression that some Christians believe that such passages as genesis are allegorical, and thus is not a lie.

Christianity takes Genesis in the literal sense, I'm not sure how one can develop a "Spiritual" meaning of the Genesis account, regardless of what some may believe, the Creationist view is the literal creation account found in Genesis...thus the term "Creationist"?

There are no in-betweens, either you believe in evolution or you believe in the Genesis account of Creation.

If not a government then who?

...God?

By this logic, the world population that is not Judeo Christian should be a moral vacuum, thousands of years of Chinese, Asian, Indian, aboriginal civilisations seem to have managed and run their civilisations just fine pre and post Darwin.

No not at all...Chinese have ruled with strict communism to maintain civil obedience, in fact, the Chinese slaughtered over 20 million of their countrymen in order to dictate their authority and rule over the population.

India maintains a religious belief system...aboriginal civilizations ruled themselves with spiritual belief systems and to speak of a moral vacuum, have you seen what humanity has become in North America over the past 50 years morally?...has it ascended or declined?....clearly it has declined at home, at schools on the highways, in the shopping centers in the restaurants on the streets...please mankind has not been "Evolving" in the moral sense and North America is supposed to be leading the way of the Future?...certainly not.

The article is designed for glancers by, that their is a progressive movement by "believers" in the direction to accepting the theory of evolution...it is just not true.

Peace

[willis]

I think you missed the whole point, twisting truth's is a very deceitful conspiracy.

Instead of focusing the main point of the article which is based on Evolution vs Creation, the header for the article implies that Christians do support evolution theory and the article implies the Catholic Church also.

When you read further into the article it reads as follows
the following paragraph is quite interesting, the article goes on to implicate the Catholic Church following the Lutherian acceptance of I.D.
People are very predicatable, those that control the media realize that most will glance through an article without actually reading it in its entirety.  Key words and individual sentences are used in order to trigger an individual into absorbing the implied meaning.

It's like those who grab one verse out of a doctrine to try and use it for contradiction.

When you read further after the individualized statement of "Catholic experts have also joined the movement. you will get a brief paragragh tightly grouped explaining the Vaticans position on Intelligent design.
Coyne is not quoted as rejecting the idea of evolution, just the idea of intelligent design.  What does the article imply theough?...it implies that there is a consensus or an acceptance on evolution theory in the Christian community, this is just not true...it is a falsehood.

The Bible clearly states:
Now if John 1:14 is to be taken literally:
then we have a problem with "Christians" believing in Jesus Christ, because the word is the Bible and if the word became flesh (Jesus Christ) then evolution doesn't have a leg to stand on in the Christian sense because the Bible says God breathed life into his nostrils and it doesn't say God evolved life into man over millions of years.
It's not a question of getting others to believe that a Christian can support evolution, it's a way of re-enforcing the theory to the masses that even religious believers support evolution. 
Christianity takes Genesis in the literal sense, I'm not sure how one can develop a "Spiritual" meaning of the Genesis account, regardless of what some may believe, the Creationist view is the literal creation account found in Genesis...thus the term "Creationist"?

There are no in-betweens, either you believe in evolution or you believe in the Genesis account of Creation.
...God?
No not at all...Chinese have ruled with strict communism to maintain civil obedience, in fact, the Chinese slaughtered over 20 million of their countrymen in order to dictate their authority and rule over the population.

India maintains a religious belief system...aboriginal civilizations ruled themselves with spiritual belief systems and to speak of a moral vacuum, have you seen what humanity has become in North America over the past 50 years morally?...has it ascended or declined?....clearly it has declined at home, at schools on the highways, in the shopping centers in the restaurants on the streets...please mankind has not been "Evolving" in the moral sense and North America is supposed to be leading the way of the Future?...certainly not.

The article is designed for glancers by, that their is a progressive movement by "believers" in the direction to accepting the theory of evolution...it is just not true.

Peace

You really shouldn't get so worked up over what reporter Joe nobody says on the CNN website.

[chance]

I think you missed the whole point, twisting truth's is a very deceitful conspiracy.

a. Instead of focusing the main point of the article which is based on Evolution vs Creation, the header for the article implies that Christians do support evolution theory and the article implies the Catholic Church also.

b. When you read further into the article it reads as follows: " Scott said. "That doesn't mean intelligent design is dead as a very popular social movement. This is an idea that has got legs. "

my paragraphing.

a. Well the title and opening paragraph are not about EvC specifically, but who is on who’s side. From the article:

ST. LOUIS, Missouri (Reuters) -- American scientists fighting back against creationism, intelligent design and other theories that seek to deny or downgrade the importance of evolution have recruited unlikely allies -- the clergy.

b. I don’t see how ‘b’ follows on from ‘a’ (if that was your intent). ‘b’ is talking about the social impetuses ID has upon peoples ideas, which leads nicely into the very next paragraph re the backlash from other Christian sources.

The following paragraph is quite interesting, the article goes on to implicate the Catholic Church following the Lutherian acceptance of I.D.  "We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests," they wrote.

Catholic experts have also joined the movement.

I can’t find a “Lutherian acceptance of I.D.” only, Warren Eschbach, a retired Church of the Brethren pastor and professor at Lutheran Theological Seminary in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania helped sponsor a letter signed by more than 10,000 other clergy.

People are very predicatable, those that control the media realize that most will glance through an article without actually reading it in its entirety. Key words and individual sentences are used in order to trigger an individual into absorbing the implied meaning.

It's like those who grab one verse out of a doctrine to try and use it for contradiction.

When you read further after the individualized statement of "Catholic experts have also joined the movement. you will get a brief paragragh tightly grouped explaining the Vaticans position on Intelligent design.

To understand your objection I will need you to be more explicit, what key words are causing the ‘wrong’ implied meaning. From the paragraph in question I get a Lutheran pastor started a petition amongst the clergy, the Catholics support his premise, am I missing something?

"The intelligent design movement belittles God. It makes God a designer, an engineer," said Vatican Observatory Director George Coyne, an astrophysicist who is also ordained. "The God of religious faith is a god of love. He did not design me."


Coyne is not quoted as rejecting the idea of evolution, just the idea of intelligent design. What does the article imply theough?...it implies that there is a consensus or an acceptance on evolution theory in the Christian community, this is just not true...it is a falsehood.

Why would Coyne reject evolution, he clearly supports it. IMO the implication is that more clergy support evolution than not, what do you see as false about that statement?

The Bible clearly states: <snip>

I fear you are comparing different doctrines from the position that your doctrine is the superior one, and by default, theirs is false, that’s ok but it’s separate issue. This position does not support your argument i.e. that the statements are false, they are not false against the Lutheran and Catholic doctrine, there is no dilemma from their perspective.

chance>
But to clarify, is the quote factually wrong or is it the inferred inclusiveness that all creationists believe such?

Christopher_John>
It's not a question of getting others to believe that a Christian can support evolution, it's a way of re-enforcing the theory to the masses that even religious believers support evolution.

I agree that is the thrust of the article, i.e. that most Christians support the theory of evolution.

chance>
I was under the impression that some Christians believe that such passages as genesis are allegorical, and thus is not a lie.

Christopher_John>
Christianity takes Genesis in the literal sense, I'm not sure how one can develop a "Spiritual" meaning of the Genesis account, regardless of what some may believe, the Creationist view is the literal creation account found in Genesis...thus the term "Creationist"?

There are no in-betweens, either you believe in evolution or you believe in the Genesis account of Creation.

So does that mean all Lutherans, and Catholics are not Christian? I think we are headed for the “no true Scotsman” fallacy here. I think it reasonable to call all who believe in the core doctrines (there’s a word for that, but it escapes me for the moment), to be called Christian.

chance>
If not a government then who?

Christopher_John>
...God?

In a practical senses I can’t see how day to day administration and law would function, with such a simplistic answer. How would you justify the speed limit on a highway for instance? Where are the boundaries? Who has the correct interpretation. Justice would fail.

chance>
By this logic, the world population that is not Judeo Christian should be a moral vacuum, thousands of years of Chinese, Asian, Indian, aboriginal civilisations seem to have managed and run their civilisations just fine pre and post Darwin.

Christopher_John
a.  No not at all...Chinese have ruled with strict communism to maintain civil obedience, in fact, the Chinese slaughtered over 20 million of their countrymen in order to dictate their authority and rule over the population.

b. India maintains a religious belief system...aboriginal civilizations ruled themselves with spiritual belief systems

c. and to speak of a moral vacuum, have you seen what humanity has become in North America over the past 50 years morally?...has it ascended or declined?....clearly it has declined at home, at schools on the highways, in the shopping centers in the restaurants on the streets...please mankind has not been "Evolving" in the moral sense and North America is supposed to be leading the way of the Future?...certainly not.

d. The article is designed for glancers by, that their is a progressive movement by "believers" in the direction to accepting the theory of evolution...it is just not true.

my paragraphing

Many questions and all interesting and may need their own topic.

a. regrettable, but not much different in principle to slaughtering native Indians. However does that implicate the peasants that were slaughtered at the hands of the communists immoral. You are confusing the deed of a despicable few (in power) with the civilisation.
b. A different religious belief! What does Hinduism or Buddhism have in common with Christianity?
c. IMO this situation is party our own fault, i.e. taking religious guidance out of schools, and thinking morals just happen.
d. I think it shows a backlash.