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Babylonian Genesis


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#1 Guest_George R_*

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 04:51 PM

How could scholars ever line this mish-mash up with Genesis???

I just re-read the book "Babylonian Genesis" that has a complete translation of the Babylonian creation and flood myths. Please read it and be amazed .. that scholars ever saw this as a source of Genesis!

Once again, I cannot see how any intelligent person could say that any part of the Bible was a "later spinoff from a basic semitic myth like the Babylonian" ...

... NOT!. ... the Babylonian myth is chock full of battling gods of many names, and pools of blood and the blatant signs of story-telling. This makes up about 95% of its obscure passages.

Sure it gets around to creating the moon (actually it tells of the creation of the crescent moon so that we can reckon the months - before the sun was around to cast the crescent shadow BTW)...

.. so whats the big deal? ... If dozens of societies invented creation stories, and guess what they included? .... did nyou guess: creating heavenly bodies and the earth ... what else would you expect??

The conclusion you hear that the Bible story was a spinoff... is NOT warranted by reading the contents of these myths ... it must be falsely based on the presupposition that the Bible story came later, and thus had to be fed by earlier stories.

Yes the babylonian myth is elaborate (lotsa gods) and dated early ... but to my reckoning that doesnt necessarily make it an early source.

1. The stories do not line up
2. 95% of it has nothing to do with genesis by any stretch
3. It is plural-god-play, not even a coherent creation story
4. The existence of a flood story in a flood plain may have been shocking to people who never considered it, but is NOT compelling as a source of the genesis flood.


Can you account for the supposed "matching" of genesis with the poorly-told Babylonian tales??

Did somebody just want his name in the media again??

#2 chance

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:25 PM

George R
I assume the book is of the same variety as The DaVinci code? In which case is suspect you would be justified in stating

Did somebody just want his name in the media again??


There’s a big market for this type of sensationalism the only litmus test the man in the street often has is to determine what the source is, i.e. money grubbing publishing house, Vs scientific journal, or established biblical scholar.

#3 Guest_The Deacon_*

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 08:27 AM

The apellation "scholar" can be rightly applied to a 1st grade pupil. And, if I was to be asked, I would have to confess that I am convinced that many cited "scholars" have not advanced much beyond that level.

#4 chance

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 02:09 PM

The apellation "scholar" can be rightly applied to a 1st grade pupil. And, if I was to be asked, I would have to confess that I am convinced that many cited "scholars" have not advanced much beyond that level.

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Re – Scholar: Poor choice of words on my part. What I was implying was that if a source like the Vatican had cross referenced certain aspects and found correlation within it’s vast library, then one could give some credence to the subject. (academic research at a professional level is what I was attempting to convey).

#5 Guest_The Deacon_*

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 06:59 PM

Re – Scholar: Poor choice of words on my part.  What I was implying was that if a source like the Vatican had cross referenced certain aspects and found correlation within it’s vast library, then one could give some credence to the subject. (academic research at a professional level is what I was attempting to convey).


I know. I just couldn't resist the opportunity of having a little fun with the fact that many people who are accepted as authorities ought not to be.

#6 Guest_George R_*

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 03:12 PM

This book is a serious scholary book that records the Babylonian myths such as the story of Gilgamesh.

Scholars have likened the babylonian myths to Genesis for years based on vague similarities.

#7 Guest_The Deacon_*

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 03:28 PM

This book is a serious scholary book that records the Babylonian myths such as the story of Gilgamesh.

Scholars have likened the babylonian myths to Genesis for years based on vague similarities.

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Yes they have, George, which reinforces my opinion. On the other hand, we know for certain that for many men anything that even seems to discredit Scripture is to be yearned for.

#8 OC1

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 08:57 PM

There are some interesting similarities between the Epic of Gilgamesh and biblical flood stories.

www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab11.htm


Like Noah, Gilgamesh is ordered by a god to build a boat and take into it "all living beings".

Both floods kill all the people on earth not in the ark/boat.

Both stories go into some detail about the construction of the boat/ark- size, shape, sealed with pitch, with multiple rooms and levels.

Gods in both stories tell Gilgamesh/Noah exactly when the flood will start.

Both the ark and Gilgamesh's boat come to rest on a mountain top before the flood water has receded.

Gilgamesh and Noah both release birds to see if the flood water has receded. In each story, the last bird doesn't return.

After the flood, both Noah and Gilgamesh release their "passengers", then perform a sacrifice.


The parts about the ark/boat coming to rest on a mountain before the flood ends, and releasing the birds, are particularly interesting.

Why do both stories have the ark/boat wait out the flood perched on a mountain?

The release of the birds seems out of place in the biblical story. For Gilgamesh, the bird not returning is a signal that the waters have receded, and he leaves the boat.

Noah also recognizes that the birds indicate that the flood has receded. But Noah waits another two months before god commands him to leave the ark.

What's the purpose of Noah releasing the birds? Why didn't Noah just take a look to see if the waters had receded?

#9 Guest_George R_*

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 07:38 AM

Rather than re-state the words, lets look at them as they stand.

Lets colorize the parts this way:

(a) BLACK irrelevant - no similarity
(B) RED contradicts key part of Genesis story
© GREEN matches

The Story of the Flood



Gilgamesh spoke to Utanapishtim, the Faraway:
"I have been looking at you,
but your appearance is not strange--you are like me!
You yourself are not different--you are like me!
My mind was resolved to fight with you,
(but instead?) my arm lies useless over you.
Tell me, how is it that you stand in the Assembly of the Gods,
and have found life!"
Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"I will reveal to you, Gilgamesh, a thing that is hidden,
a secret of the gods I will tell you!
Shuruppak, a city that you surely know,
situated on the banks of the Euphrates,
that city was very old, and there were gods inside it.
The hearts of the Great Gods moved them to inflict the Flood.
Their Father Anu uttered the oath (of secrecy),
Valiant Enlil was their Adviser,
Ninurta was their Chamberlain,
Ennugi was their Minister of Canals.
Ea, the Clever Prince(?), was under oath with them
so he repeated their talk to the reed house:
'Reed house, reed house! Wall, wall!
O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubartutu:
Tear down the house
and build a boat!
Abandon wealth and seek living beings!
Spurn possessions and keep alive living beings!
Make all living beings go up into the boat.
The boat which you are to build,
its dimensions must measure equal to each other:
its length must correspond to its width.
Roof it over like the Apsu.
I understood and spoke to my lord, Ea:
'My lord, thus is the command which you have uttered
I will heed and will do it.

But what shall I answer the city, the populace, and the
Elders!'
Ea spoke, commanding me, his servant:
'You, well then, this is what you must say to them:
"It appears that Enlil is rejecting me
so I cannot reside in your city (?),
nor set foot on Enlil's earth.
I will go down to the Apsu to live with my lord, Ea,

and upon you he will rain down abundance, a profusion of fowl, myriad(!) fishes.
He will bring to you a harvest of wealth,
in the morning he will let loaves of bread shower down,
and in the evening a rain of wheat!"'

Just as dawn began to glow
the land assembled around me-
the carpenter carried his hatchet,
the reed worker carried his (flattening) stone,
... the men ...
The child carried the pitch,
the weak brought whatever else was needed.
On the fifth day I laid out her exterior.
It was a field in area,
its walls were each 10 times 12 cubits in height,
the sides of its top were of equal length, 10 times 12 cubits each.
I laid out its (interior) structure and drew a picture of it (?).
I provided it with six decks,
thus dividing it into seven (levels).
The inside of it I divided into nine (compartments).
I drove plugs (to keep out) water in its middle part.
I saw to the punting poles and laid in what was necessary.
Three times 3,600 (units) of raw bitumen I poured into the
bitumen kiln,
three times 3,600 (units of) pitch ...into it,
there were three times 3,600 porters of casks who carried (vege-
table) oil,
apart from the 3,600 (units of) oil which they consumed (!)
and two times 3,600 (units of) oil which the boatman stored
away.
I butchered oxen for the meat(!),
and day upon day I slaughtered sheep.
I gave the workmen(?) ale, beer, oil, and wine, as if it were
river water,
so they could make a party like the New Year's Festival.
... and I set my hand to the oiling(!).
The boat was finished by sunset.
The launching was very difficult.
They had to keep carrying a runway of poles front to back,
until two-thirds of it had gone into the water(?).
Whatever I had I loaded on it:
whatever silver I had 1 loaded on it,
whatever gold I had I loaded on it.

All the living beings that I had I loaded on it,
I had all my kith and kin go up into the boat,
all the beasts and animals of the field and the craftsmen I
had go up.
Shamash had set a stated time
:
'In the morning I will let loaves of bread shower down,
and in the evening a rain of wheat!

Go inside the boat, seal the entry!'
That stated time had arrived.
In the morning he let loaves of bread shower down,
and in the evening a rain of wheat
.
I watched the appearance of the weather--
the weather was frightful to behold!
I went into the boat and sealed the entry.

For the caulking of the boat, to Puzuramurri, the boatman,
I gave the palace together with its contents.

Just as dawn began to glow
there arose from the horizon a black cloud.
Adad rumbled inside of it,
before him went Shullat and Hanish,
heralds going over mountain and land.
Erragal pulled out the mooring poles,
forth went Ninurta and made the dikes overflow.
The Anunnaki lifted up the torches,
setting the land ablaze with their flare.

Stunned shock over Adad's deeds overtook the heavens,
and turned to blackness all that had been light.
The... land shattered like a... pot.
All day long the South Wind blew ...,
blowing fast, submerging the mountain in water,
overwhelming the people like an attack.
No one could see his fellow,
they could not recognize each other in the torrent.
The gods were frightened by the Flood,
and retreated, ascending to the heaven of Anu.
The gods were cowering like dogs, crouching by the outer wall.
Ishtar shrieked like a woman in childbirth,
the sweet-voiced Mistress of the Gods wailed:
'The olden days have alas turned to clay,
because I said evil things in the Assembly of the Gods!
How could I say evil things in the Assembly of the Gods,
ordering a catastrophe to destroy my people!!
No sooner have I given birth to my dear people
than they fill the sea like so many fish!'
The gods--those of the Anunnaki--were weeping with her,
the gods humbly sat weeping, sobbing with grief(?),

their lips burning, parched with thirst.
Six days and seven nights
came the wind and flood, the storm flattening the land.
When the seventh day arrived, the storm was pounding,
the flood was a war--struggling with itself like a woman
writhing (in labor).
The sea calmed, fell still, the whirlwind (and) flood stopped up.
I looked around all day long--quiet had set in
and all the human beings had turned to clay!
The terrain was as flat as a roof
.
I opened a vent and fresh air (daylight!) fell upon the side of
my nose.
I fell to my knees and sat weeping,
tears streaming down the side of my nose.

I looked around for coastlines in the expanse of the sea,
and at twelve leagues there emerged a region (of land).
On Mt. Nimush the boat lodged firm,
Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing no sway.
One day and a second Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing
no sway.
A third day, a fourth, Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing
no sway.
A fifth day, a sixth, Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing
no sway.
When a seventh day arrived
I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a swallow and released it.
The swallow went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me
.
Then I sent out everything in all directions and sacrificed
(a sheep).
I offered incense in front of the mountain-ziggurat.
Seven and seven cult vessels I put in place,
and (into the fire) underneath (or: into their bowls) I poured
reeds, cedar, and myrtle.
The gods smelled the savor,
the gods smelled the sweet savor,
and collected like flies over a (sheep) sacrifice.
Just then Beletili arrived.
She lifted up the large flies (beads) which Anu had made for
his enjoyment(!):
'You gods, as surely as I shall not forget this lapis lazuli
around my neck,
may I be mindful of these days, and never forget them!
The gods may come to the incense offering,
but Enlil may not come to the incense offering,
because without considering he brought about the Flood
and consigned my people to annihilation.'
Just then Enlil arrived.
He saw the boat and became furious,
he was filled with rage at the Igigi gods:
'Where did a living being escape?
No man was to survive the annihilation!'

Ninurta spoke to Valiant Enlil, saying:
'Who else but Ea could devise such a thing?
It is Ea who knows every machination!'
La spoke to Valiant Enlil, saying:
'It is yours, O Valiant One, who is the Sage of the Gods.
How, how could you bring about a Flood without consideration
Charge the violation to the violator,
charge the offense to the offender,
but be compassionate lest (mankind) be cut off,
be patient lest they be killed.
Instead of your bringing on the Flood,
would that a lion had appeared to diminish the people!
Instead of your bringing on the Flood,
would that a wolf had appeared to diminish the people!
Instead of your bringing on the Flood,
would that famine had occurred to slay the land!
Instead of your bringing on the Flood,
would that (Pestilent) Erra had appeared to ravage the land!
It was not I who revealed the secret of the Great Gods,
I (only) made a dream appear to Atrahasis, and (thus) he
heard the secret of the gods.
Now then! The deliberation should be about him!'
Enlil went up inside the boat
and, grasping my hand, made me go up.
He had my wife go up and kneel by my side.
He touched our forehead and, standing between us, he
blessed us:
'Previously Utanapishtim was a human being.
But now let Utanapishtim and his wife become like us,
the gods!

Let Utanapishtim reside far away, at the Mouth of the Rivers.'
They took us far away and settled us at the Mouth of the Rivers."
"Now then, who will convene the gods on your behalf,
that you may find the life that you are seeking!
Wait! You must not lie down for six days and seven nights."
soon as he sat down (with his head) between his legs
sleep, like a fog, blew upon him.
Utanapishtim said to his wife:
"Look there! The man, the youth who wanted (eternal) life!
Sleep, like a fog, blew over him."
his wife said to Utanapishtim the Faraway:
"Touch him, let the man awaken.
Let him return safely by the way he came.
Let him return to his land by the gate through which he left."
Utanapishtim said to his wife:
"Mankind is deceptive, and will deceive you.
Come, bake leaves for him and keep setting them by his head
and draw on the wall each day that he lay down."
She baked his leaves and placed them by his head
and marked on the wall the day that he lay down.
The first loaf was dessicated,
the second stale, the third moist(?), the fourth turned white,
its ...,
the fifth sprouted gray (mold), the sixth is still fresh.
the seventh--suddenly he touched him and the man awoke.
Gilgamesh said to Utanapishtim:
"The very moment sleep was pouring over me
you touched me and alerted me!"
Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"Look over here, Gilgamesh, count your loaves!
You should be aware of what is marked on the wall!
Your first loaf is dessicated,
the second stale, the third moist, your fourth turned white,
its ...
the fifth sprouted gray (mold), the sixth is still fresh.
The seventh--suddenly he touched him and the man awoke.
Gilgamesh said to Utanapishtim:
"The very moment sleep was pouring over me
you touched me and alerted me!"
Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"Look over here, Gilgamesh, count your leaves!
You should be aware of what is marked on the wall!
Your first loaf is dessicated,
the second stale, the third moist, your fourth turned white,
its ...
the fifth sprouted gray (mold), the sixth is still fresh.
The seventh--at that instant you awoke!"
Gilgamesh said to Utanapishtim the Faraway:
"O woe! What shall I do, Utanapishtim, where shall I go!
The Snatcher has taken hold of my flesh,
in my bedroom Death dwells,
and wherever I set foot there too is Death!"
Home Empty-Handed
Utanapishtim said to Urshanabi, the ferryman:
"May the harbor reject you, may the ferry landing reject you!
May you who used to walk its shores be denied its shores!
The man in front of whom you walk, matted hair chains
his body,
animal skins have ruined his beautiful skin.
Take him away, Urshanabi, bring him to the washing place.
Let him wash his matted hair in water like ellu.
Let him cast away his animal skin and have the sea carry it off,
let his body be moistened with fine oil,
let the wrap around his head be made new,
let him wear royal robes worthy of him!
Until he goes off to his city,
until he sets off on his way,
let his royal robe not become spotted, let it be perfectly new!"
Urshanabi took him away and brought him to the washing place.
He washed his matted hair with water like ellu.
He cast off his animal skin and the sea carried it oh.
He moistened his body with fine oil,
and made a new wrap for his head.
He put on a royal robe worthy of him.
Until he went away to his city,
until he set off on his way,
his royal robe remained unspotted, it was perfectly clean.
Gilgamesh and Urshanabi bearded the boat,
they cast off the magillu-boat, and sailed away.
The wife of Utanapishtim the Faraway said to him:
"Gilgamesh came here exhausted and worn out.
What can you give him so that he can return to his land (with
honor) !"
Then Gilgamesh raised a punting pole
and drew the boat to shore.
Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"Gilgamesh, you came here exhausted and worn out.
What can I give you so you can return to your land?
I will disclose to you a thing that is hidden, Gilgamesh,
a... I will tell you.
There is a plant... like a boxthorn,
whose thorns will prick your hand like a rose.
If your hands reach that plant you will become a young
man again."

Hearing this, Gilgamesh opened a conduit(!) (to the Apsu)
and attached heavy stones to his feet.
They dragged him down, to the Apsu they pulled him.
He took the plant, though it pricked his hand,
and cut the heavy stones from his feet,
letting the waves(?) throw him onto its shores.
Gilgamesh spoke to Urshanabi, the ferryman, saying:
"Urshanabi, this plant is a plant against decay(!)
by which a man can attain his survival(!).
I will bring it to Uruk-Haven,
and have an old man eat the plant to test it.
The plant's name is 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man.'"
Then I will eat it and return to the condition of my youth."
At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
Seeing a spring and how cool its waters were,
Gilgamesh went down and was bathing in the water.
A snake smelled the fragrance of the plant,
silently came up and carried off the plant.

While going back it sloughed off its casing.'
At that point Gilgamesh sat down, weeping,
his tears streaming over the side of his nose.
"Counsel me, O ferryman Urshanabi!
For whom have my arms labored, Urshanabi!
For whom has my heart's blood roiled!
I have not secured any good deed for myself,
but done a good deed for the 'lion of the ground'!"
Now the high waters are coursing twenty leagues distant,'
as I was opening the conduit(?) I turned my equipment over
into it (!).
What can I find (to serve) as a marker(?) for me!
I will turn back (from the journey by sea) and leave the boat by
the shore!"
At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
They arrived in Uruk-Haven.
Gilgamesh said to Urshanabi, the ferryman:
"Go up, Urshanabi, onto the wall of Uruk and walk around.
Examine its foundation, inspect its brickwork thoroughly--
is not (even the core of) the brick structure of kiln-fired brick,
and did not the Seven Sages themselves lay out its plan!
One league city, one league palm gardens, one league lowlands, the open area(?) of the Ishtar Temple,
three leagues and the open area(?) of Uruk it encloses

#10 Guest_George R_*

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Posted 01 April 2005 - 08:05 AM

Of course, any btwo flood stories must involve

water

and a boat that stands heavy storms

And survivors

And a means like a bird to find land

And gratefulness for surviving


Or ..

it woudnt be a flood story.




Or we have to assume that every flood story (Mayan, Chinese, etc) came from the Babylonian!!

#11 chance

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:42 PM

Of course, any btwo flood stories must involve

water

and a boat that stands heavy storms

And survivors

And a means like a bird to find land

And gratefulness for surviving
Or ..

it woudnt be a flood story.
Or we have to assume that every flood story (Mayan, Chinese, etc) came from the Babylonian!!

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Part of human psyche is to see patterns amongst chaos, to find similarities between two ancient records, it will IMO, only be a matter of time before someone says “aha!” (light bulb above head).

#12 Geezer

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 12:19 PM

Since we are doing "could be"...

Could be Moses was born after the Gilgamesh story.
Could be the flood happened and later, the Gilgamesh story was written, not inspired by G-d, but by human fantasy.
Could be G-d gave the flood account straight to Moses in detail the way it happened.
Could be the whole thing was brought about by G-d even unto closing the door of the ark.
Could be none of it is testable.
Could be it is all about faith.

#13 Guest_The Deacon_*

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 01:52 PM

What it is about is, as it always has been, proving the righteous separation of the sheep and the goats.

What was it about Abraham that justified him before G-d?

#14 Geezer

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 06:35 AM

What was it about Abraham that justified him before G-d?


Exactly!

#15 Fred Williams

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 07:53 PM

There is overwhelming evidence the Genesis account is the factual account, and the Gilgamesh Epic the distorted version. The ark dimensions alone establish this. The Gilgamesh version was cube-shaped, which is absurd, while the Biblical account gives dimensions that ship builders have shown is virtually impossible to capsize. I recall a tsunami twice as strong as the one in the Indian ocean would not have been enough to capsize it. Did the authors of the Bible just get lucky, again?

If it were not for the religious implications, it would be obvious to everyone which is the true account. :rolleyes:

I found this link at AiG, that offers some additional reasons why the Bible version is much more reasonable.

http://www.answersin...29gilgamesh.asp

Fred

#16 OC1

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 09:19 PM

There is overwhelming evidence the Genesis account is the factual account, and the Gilgamesh Epic the distorted version.


The "evidence" is hardly overwhelming. In fact, outside of the bible itself, there is none.

The ark dimensions alone establish this. The Gilgamesh version was cube-shaped, which is absurd, while the Biblical account gives dimensions that ship builders have shown is virtually impossible to capsize.


Actually, the Gilgamesh version seems much more reasonable to me. True, the dimensions of Gilgamesh's boat don't seem to be realistic. But the time frame seems much more reasonable.

Utanapishtim (the "Noah" of the epic) was afloat for only two weeks, so he needed two weeks worth of provisions, at most. (Heck, for 2 weeks he and the animals could have gotten by with no provisions at all).

But Noah, his family, and all the animals were in the Ark for over a year, so they needed at least 25 times as much food as Utanapishtim. A years worth of provisions for Noah's family and hundreds/thousands of animals.

Gathering/growing all that food (while building the ark at the same time!) would be a pretty neat trick for a bronze-age subsistence farmer.

Not to mention the maintenance problems Noah must have had keeping a 400 foot Ark sea worthy for a better part of a year. That's the reason why the biggest wooden ships in the days of sail were only a couple of hundred feet long; longer than that and the flex of the wood makes it impossible to keep the hull sealed, and they leak like crazy.

Of course, there are also many serious problems with both accounts (like the lack of geological evidence, and the difficulty of getting things like polar bears, koalas, and sloths back to their respective continents from the mideast after the flood).

The only reasonable interpretation is that they are both myths, derived perhaps from stories about an actual (but local) flood, but myths none the less.

#17 chance

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 02:16 PM

I found this link at AiG, that offers some additional reasons why the Bible version is much more reasonable.

http://www.answersin...29gilgamesh.asp

Fred

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The AiG article has a good summary of both Floods, and comparison of the main points, quite a good read, but I fear Jonathan Sarfati is a little too eager IMO, in his conclusions.
For example

Genesis is older
It makes more sense that Genesis was the original and the pagan myths arose as distortions of that original account.

The evidence for this statement is:
1- The Biblical order for directions to Sodom and Gomorrah.
2- The Bible states man was originally monotheistic, (thus any polytheism must be older, - reference to book).
3- The whole Gilgamesh-derivation theory is based on the discredited Documentary Hypothesis.9 (I don’t know what this is, but it seems to be connected to the age of writing).

Historians give more credence to historical accounts when corroborating evidence is sourced from separate sources (preferably enemies), comparing one chapter to another within the same document is only a measure of internal consistency, not accuracy.

By far the biggest problem for the Arc (Noah’s or Gilgamesh’s) is to make a ship that can ride the wave motion. If both arcs are to survive in a Mill Pond environment then there is no problem, but if you introduce waves, there is only 2 solutions:

Make a very rigid and strong ship, thus when a wave crests you might see the prow and stern clear of the water, the ship is held together by it’s rigid construction. This situation is very unlikely and a more reasonable conclusion would see the ship splinter and leak in very short order indeed.

Make a flexible ship, this is the modern solution, steel ships are built with lateral strength with ribbing at right angles to the longitudinal axis, thus when a wave crests, the ship flexes around the wave (within limits of course). The extreme example of the flexible ship was demonstrated by Thor Hyadale(sp) with his epic voyages across the Atlantic in his Reed Boats. These reed ships demonstrate the ultimate in flexibility and sea worthiness far superior to a wooden boat of the same era.

#18 Geezer

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 09:50 AM

We can settle this right now. Let us build an ark and test it out.
Now, go get me some gopher wood...oops.

#19 Fred Williams

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 12:21 PM

Unless anyone can provide me a compelling reason via PM to re-open this thread, I'm going to close it. This is diverging from the purpose intended for this forum (see pinned topic) and is now turning into a global flood and Noah's ark feasibility debate (I realize I fueled this with my post above). One side claims myth while another responds it isn't, and we could go on and on and rehash the same debate that rages on a myriad of other websites (the flood/Ark topic is probably better suited for the 'Young Earth vs Old Earth' forum").

Many questions raised here are answered in Woodmorappe's book, "Noah's Ark, a Feasibility Study". I'm sure there are plenty of sites that critique his book. But debating a global flood and Noah's ark isn't what this forum was intended for, and I apologize for contributing to this thread going off course.

Fred




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