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Tubal last won the day on May 5 2012

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About Tubal

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  1. If it brings you pleasure to think you have the truth then so be it but you have not defeated me, not even close. All you and them like you have done is repeat like a parrot your arguments about circumcision and being blind freely to the knowledge that it is part of the ceremonial law and to use the equivocation of saying "ah but it is a perpetual sign" is nonsense. Using the "Spirit" to do away with one commandment among ten for no reason what so ever. With this thread I thought we would discuss but never, no not even once has anyone shown me any sort of acknowledgment of my arguments. This whole discussion has been one sided. I have never seen the mental gymnastics you 3 are capable of, my mind is younger and it isn't even that flexible. As for Revelation, do as you please, I personally went back and read the whole book of Revelation when you first made this claim but if you feel in your heart you have something to share then do so. And as for this thread, when people start reading my posts and actually thinking before repeating the same worn out arguments I have debunked since ages past. Then I will post again on this topic of the law of God.
  2. So God has no standard he wants us to follow? Just do whatever each one of us thinks is right? You have no scripture on which to assume the book of Revelation was written only for the Jew. What of the other books for that matter? You seem to prefer the writings of Paul, why don't you take a pair of scissors and cut off what you don't need and keep what is convenient. You all have a religion based on Paul, and I say religion not Christianity. Because those that are called Christians follow Jesus and live as he lived but it is clear who you all follow and distort. Gentlemen, I am at a loss for words. I'm sorry, there seems to be nothing more I can do for either of you. The level of entrenched confusion present in both of your minds is far beyond what I can comprehend or contend with. If you truly believe that the Sabbath, the 4th commandment is no longer binding to God's people then so be it. Though I think it is clear what the Bible says. The law that was written on tablets of stone is now written on flesh tablets in the heart of those that walk according to the Spirit. Not a single law less and not a law more. So that we may live according to the law of God not according to the law of flesh. Keep the law because you love Jesus not because it saves. The love of Jesus is what saves not the law. I have nothing else to say other than what I have already said in this thread. God is clear on what his commandments are and who is to keep them. Remember this. The majority is always wrong. As in the days of Noah so will the coming of the Son of Man be. May God have mercy on us on that day. Until you all continue distorting and equivocating.
  3. Fact: The Sabbath was instituted before any Jew ever existed. Fact: God's law is a covenant for anyone that wants to be His. It is a covenant between Him and His people. Being a Jew does not save. We are God's people. Fact: Circumcision was abolished very plainly in scripture but the Sabbath was not. The seventh day Sabbath is not part of the ceremonial law. Fact: You are blurring the line between the Ten Commandments to the Ceremonial law to prove your point when I already clearly showed how God distinguished them. That is a ceremonial sabbath. Not creation Sabbath. Stay on task here, we are talking about creation Sabbath, the Ten Commandments. Circumcision is not perpetual because it has ended, No Jew nor Gentile needs to get circumcised because Jesus did away with that and all other ceremonies. You know this, you know I know this. Why are you asking me? Revelation 2:1 says no such thing, maybe you ment Revelation 2:12? Revelation 2:12-16 Here a comparason is being made. Why do you twist and distort? Anyway none of this is relevant. I am talking about the 4th commandment, that which is part of the ten. Focus. I am not going to dance with you, sit down and concentrate. Mixing and blurring the difference between the ceremonial and ten commandments will get you no where. Stop equivocating. If you have run out of arguments to defend why you do not keep the 4th commandment then stop posting because as far as I can see you are wrestling for scraps, irrelevant scraps. The thread is not called "God's law" or "Circumsicion" It is called the 4th commandment. Stay on topic. Acts 1:8 "uttermost part of the earth". Though this is irrelevant to the thread OP. You are equivocating again the Ten Commandments with the Ceremonial. Stop doing this. The promised kingdom is the one prophesied by Daniel. The kingdom of God on the second coming of Jesus. This is irrelevant. Not a valid arguement to defend not keeping the Sabbath. Try again. Ah, classy. Circumcision is not part of the Ten commandments, nor is it a reason to stop keeping creation Sabbath. God bless. The tree was a test. God had a law in Eden, thou shalt not eat. 2 Corinthians 3:3-8 Nothing about the Seventh day sabbath. Paul points us to Jesus, Jesus says if you love him keep his commandments. How much longer must I repeat myself? Equivocation. One giant ball of irrelevant, entaglement of equivocation. I am not talking about the ceremonial law. The Bible is clear about the difference. 1 Timothy 1:9-10 There is none righteous. Therefor the law is made for all. Walk as Jesus walked. Jesus kept the law and he is righteous. The law shows us in what we are failing. If you are not failing in anything you are still under the law. To think you are saved and not keep the law of God is foolish, the Sabbath is to be kept now, the Sabbath will be kept in heaven. You have no reason to not keep it. Matthew 7:21-23 I will not repeat myself. I have already said more than enough to get you out of blindness. Stay on topic and God bless. This thread is about the seventh day Sabbath. The 4th commandment of God. Do not talk about that which is already clearly seperated. The ceremonial law or the law of the flesh which is of sin. Do not try to remove the law completly using Paul's writings.
  4. Where is that in the Bible? My Bible says Revelation 22:14 Oh look at that, I guess keeping the law is going to be important to go to heaven, who would have guessed? I'm just kidding, but you see how your logic is full of fallacies right? Again which law are we talking about because in that case I'd have to choose. I do agree Jesus saves us from the penalty of sin with his grace and frees us from the law of the sacrifice. I don't agree that we no longer need God's law, His Ten Commandments. Watch out with how you define the law. Please be more clear next time as to avoid confusion, your own. Because God's law still is. God's law is not personal preference, though many think it is.. Again, be careful how you define law. Paul uses another type of law to illustrate his point. Either the flesh is our master and we are under its law or God is our master and we are under His law. When he says living by the Spirit makes us free from the law of sin he is talking about the law of the flesh, which makes us sin against the Lord. How can the power of sin be the law of God? Obviously not! The law of the flesh which entices us to sin is where it gets its strength. Be very careful the definitions you use out of context. Focus, you too are another that has made me repeat myself way too much. We are talking about the 4th commandment. You too have changed and matched the definition of the law, equivocating it to whatever suits your needs. I am talking about God's law and that alone. Now, on what base have you to not keep God's law? This is the discussion. If you can come up with an argument that I have not refuted in the first 3 points or up until now, so be it. Post it and I'll refute that too as I have been doing this whole time.
  5. You just like the rest, are ignoring the fact that the weekly Sabbath was from creation not from the covenant with Abraham. From Abraham forward all ceremonies were to point to Jesus. God did not make "Today" holy. God made the seventh day holy, before sin. It is not a shadow. It was before the Jew. You are constantly changing the definition of the law. Your straw man was that you, asked for a text in the Bible pointing to a place in scripture about how making the law shorter something or another, the point is it was totally irrelevant to this discussion then you say "No you can't!" While I was never trying to make that point. He is talking about the law of the flesh. You are equivocating the law of the flesh and the law of God and switching the definitions in and out as it suits you to make your point. What law are you talking about? So it's ok to keep the Sabbath to get to know Christ? That makes no sense. You are mixing and matching the definition of what law in this context means. I didn't mean it forces us to walk in the law of God. If we are living by the Spirit, the Holy Spirit then we will obey all of God's law. Where did I get that idea? Romans 8:4 Again you are totally ignoring me when I say the law does not save. That is not what I am arguing. God would not go contrary to how Jesus lived, neither does Paul. You distort him. Jesus obeyed the father, and like his example so should we. Paul does not supersede Jesus nor can he change the commandments of God. Check yourself and your doctrine. Romans 3:9-11 I fully agree with Paul, not a single one that understands. And by the way, if both Jew and Gentile are under sin that means they are judged by God's law, which according to Paul himself is still binding, including the Sabbath. Historically we can prove early Christian Gentiles kept the Sabbath. There is no excuse. http://www.cogwriter.com/sabbath.htm I highly recommend this read, it is for your profit. I agree trying to keep the law is not keeping it. Any man that says he is sinless is also a liar. If you have broken one law you have broken them all. I simply said I try because God knows me better than I know myself and I do not want to lie, besides it is totally irrelevant to this discussion my character flaws. We are talking about God's law not me. I should not be anyone's example, only Jesus. I cannot say I do because if I say I do and am not without knowledge of it I am a lair. To my knowledge I am. This is irrelevant to the discussion. Please do not ask me anything in this thread that has nothing to do with the 4th commandment Sabbath and why you don't keep it, thanks. We are here to see if your not keeping it is truly based on the Bible, which I have shown many times is not. Ok but he was still obeying the commandments. Jesus does not want us to keep the law like a Pharisees or a Sadducee, but how he kept it. No where does that text author the removal of the 4th commandment, try again. You guys are not reading my posts. I find it frustrating to be repeating often what I have written the first 3 posts. This thread is very one sided. I acknowledge your arguments and refute them but you guys don't acknowledge any of the strong points I am making nor refute them. You are getting off topic and moving away from the issue. Focus on what we are discussing here. The Ten Commandments. So far no one has been able to give me a reason based on the Bible alone for not keeping the Sabbath but instead all you have done is change the definition of the law to other definitions in Paul's writings which are totally out of context it its use to try to prove that the law of God is no longer binding. None of it? Please use logic and stop with the straw men and the equivocations of definition. I pray that your next post in this thread UppsalaDragby has some good points as to why you don't keep the Sabbath. God bless.
  6. I forgot to address this. UppSala what did you mean to say with this? The Ethiopian was already a Jew meaning he kept the law. What's your point?
  7. The belief that we are free from the Ten Commandments because supposedly that is what Paul taught. Ok I'll give you that one, he does say "my gospel". Paul could be sort of a cocky guy at times. I have also found an interesting text. Romans 2:14 But we have to be careful and see which law it is that he is talking about. If you live by the Spirit you will keep the Ten Commandments. Go read the reference I make to the Spirit in the other posts. Romans 7:25 This is what Paul is talking about. We want to serve God with our mind but we lust after things of the flesh. Either God rules us and are under his law or our flesh rules us and we are under it's law. God's law is the law of righteousness and the law of the flesh the law of sin. John 15:10 Indeed, but I am not teaching anything new to what the apostles taught. It is those that say we do not have to keep the law. And it is confusing too because you want them and you don't want them. We are free from only one out of the ten? Same thing I have said all day. No one is saved or justified by works. Jesus has not only freed us from the ceremonial law but the Jew as well. The new covenant is the writing of the law in the heart and the forehead. That will be the test. Hebrews 8:9-11 The law of God makes you free from the law of the flesh. maybe this will help illustrate. death<-law of flesh<-you->law of Spirit->salvation the law of flesh is simply what you want to do that is contrary to the will of God or "law of Spirit" Be careful how you distort the texts you distort. Surely you cannot mean to imply that the law of God helps us sin?
  8. Tubal

    Post-Flood Migration

    Global flood however I think is not debatable. The evidence for it is overwhelming. Just wanted to add that Calum. I recommend you to my thread I posted a lecture series called Genesis Conflict. Great presentation. Enjoy and God bless.
  9. There is an obvious difference between the Ten Commandments and the Ceremonial law. If there was not then we would be allowed to do what ever we felt like it, that is madness to think it is possible and be saved. The Ten commandments are separate from the ceremonial law. God did it that way not I. The Christian is to keep all of the law because Jesus kept all the law and he is our example. That is what it means to be a Christian, to follow Jesus. Not to distort the writings of one apostle and follow that. The Spirit makes us walk in the law, not out of it. Provide Bible texts for this thing you are teaching, remember I was raised SDA from birth so I am not familiar with ANY other "interpretation" of the word. Though to me it seems you have distorted Paul because he is easy to misunderstand. How come none of this "free from the law" stuff can't be based on any other writer? It surely isn't based on the teachings of Jesus. So people in the OT did not keept the Ten Commandments? You know you done goofed right? Grace saves us only from our past sins not from the future ones we commit. Of course they kept the law and sacrificed the lamb. Now that we have our Lamb Jesus Christ all we need to do is keep the law. Everyman will be judged according to the light that they have. My job is not to judge but to give light. I try to please God the best way I can. Maybe but this macro is defined . The law of the Ten Commandments lets us identify it anywhere we see it because it identifies sin. Do not let my age cover your eyes and ears from hearing truth.
  10. Paulinism is a lie of the devil and you have been deceived. Paul never says "my gospel". He cannot preach contrary to him that sent him. You have all distorted his writings for your own destruction. Freedom from the law of the sacrifice. The price of our life Jesus has paid, and so he has made us free from THAT LAW. Romans 6:20-22 But if they were servants to sin then there must have been a law or how would they know? The law causes us to have knowledge of whether we are sinning or not. Notice they have been made free from sin NOT FROM THE LAW! Adam didn't need many prohibitive laws because there was no sin. It wouldn't make sense to tell Adam not to steal or worship false God's right after creation. As for the purpose of the law, show me where that is in the Bible and I'll agree, assuming it isn't another text you distorted. So what then? Shall we live how ever we want because Jesus died on the cross? God forbid! Brother this makes no sense in the light that we are called to walk as Jesus walked. I have referenced a number of Bible texts but you haven't give me any. Because there are no Bible texts defending what you assume. The Sabbath is not about not working but a relationship with God. The commandment is "remember", if it was a new law why did they have to remember? Does that make sense in light of what you are saying? No where is the Sabbath mentioned in those texts and I will not accept them because you know full well he is talking about fasting. Stop lying to yourself. None of those texts point to what you are saying. Romans 11:11-26 Says here Israel rejected and was blind and that even God would break them from his tree. God doesn't care about a specific nation but his people. Anyone can be his if they want, accept Jesus and keep the commandments. This texts holds no weight in your argument. You cannot deny that the Sabbath was before the Jew. I already debunked that text in the first 2 posts! Did you even read the OP!? Romans 14:5 This text, nor the whole book of Romans mention the word Sabbath or the seventh day. He was talking about fasting. Go read the OP. God's law is not up for debate, you follow it or be lost. God would never tell people to be fully persuaded to their own mind in terms of his Ten Commandments. If you read the whole book you will clearly see its context. You guys are not reading my posts or are ignoring my arguments. Even Moses spoke of the circumcision of the heart to obey God and we need that same obedience today. The physical circumcision was part of the ceremonial law. I agree it would be but think about this. God is a God of order. We live in his universe so we have to obey his laws. I have been saying the whole time no one is saved by works. That is not a new gospel, he is repeating the same thing the WHOLE Bible says. No one has ever been saved by works. NO ONE. I must place the man under his own writings because you all seek to distort him and I don't want you guys to be lost. Before posting please re read everything, this whole thread from the beginning. Then pray and ask the Holy Spirit and then go back and read the whole thread again. I highly recommend the extra reading links that explain Romans 14. Please read, they are for your profit. God Bless.
  11. The reason I don't have to get circumcised or keep festivals is because that was part of the ceremonial law, it was not on the Ten Commandments. I have not preformed great things through the Holy Spirit that just goes to show how much more I need to search for God. How many times must I repeat myself? The two laws are separate! So according to you then Jesus didn't want a single Gentile to be saved because he didn't preach once to them. Again, I have said this many times. The law does not save nor count towards grace. Grace saves but if you are under grace you will keep the law because if you break the law you are removed from grace, go read the references I used from Paul last post. With all honesty and no insult intended, Paul's gospel is not a new gospel but you have distorted it as Peter said many do. Paul can not contradict the Bible, to base this doctrine solely on Paul shows that you are the one mistaken not he. The tree in the garden was a test, God's law is his test of obedience towards him. Question. Why did God need a test if there was no sin? Do not think that because you are saved by grace you have no need of the law because you will be lost. If there is no law there is no sin. So since you can't keep the law, rather than live by the Spirit keeping all of God's commandments you'd rather get rid of them?! There is not a single text in scripture supporting you brother TeeJay! There is no condemnation under the law if you keep it, only if you break it. Salvation is not a permanent state, you can become lost after accepting Jesus. What Paul is talking about when he says law is the ceremonial law, to think other wise is impossible. The law of the sacrifice unto God condemns but if you accept Jesus as your sacrifice you are free from that law, the ceremonial law. You have distorted Paul to perfection. So to make sure there is no transgression of the law we must get rid of it instead of keeping it? Does that make any sense? Can we do away with something God instituted. Not by being placed under the law are we slaves to sin but by committing sin. John 8:34 Hebrews 12:5-8 How is he going to discipline you if there is no law? I think it is you who without cause or authority desires to do away with God's Ten Commandments. Paul never teaches to get rid of God's law, not once. If grace is all you need then why did he kick out some church members that were not keeping God's law? You twist Paul unto your own destruction brother!
  12. You are all right. God is not an angel! Nor does he have to be to rule over them. Assuming that to command over a creation they have to be part of the trinity is wrong. Just as Melchizedek is Jesus so can Micheal be. Arch Angel simply means, leader OF the angelic host. It does not make him an angel. This pretty much sums it up. Great reading here http://straighttestimony.blogspot.com/2007/12/is-jesus-also-michael.html And check out this thread to http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5023 God Bless.
  13. Sorry TeeJay but it seems you too are guilty of ignoring what I wrote. No where is the Sabbath abolished. The text you are using from Paul I have debunked. He is talking about the ceremonies which pointed to Jesus, that's why he says "the substance is of Christ". The shadow sabbaths were done away with, not creation Sabbath. You are confused by Paul just as Peter says. Everyone is under the law. If we do not keep the law then we neglect to follow Jesus because he specifically told us to keep the law. Paul is not a liar, the ceremonial law that the substance of which was Jesus was fulfilled at the cross and done away with. Mark 2:27-28 Does it say "The sabbath was made for the jew"? No. It was made for man after creation. Romans 3:23-24 Romans 3:20 So law tells us where sin is. All have sinned therefore all are under the law. Grace reconciles them unto God. Romans 4:15 I am not talking about keeping the Sabbath how the Pharisees kept it but to do God's will and seek a relationship with him that day, apart from the daily monotonous lives we lead. To come together once a week and have rest in his company. To call his day a delight, keep it and it is not burdensome to keep the law to those that are in the Spirit. Because the Spirit makes strong in what the flesh was weak. Ask the Holy Spirit for direction and God bless you all. Hebrews 10:26 If you sin wilfully knowing full well, the sacrifice of Jesus covers you no more. You are no longer under grace but under the penalty of the law which is death. Either you die because of the law or your "Old man" dies because of grace. We cannot get rid of one or the other but must have both law and grace. Romans 6:6 Paul is very clear here and confusion is near impossible. Brother, this is not Biblical and can lead to some people excusing very strange behavior and think they will be saved. Shall we steal and lie and worship false gods? Do not partake of the law? That doesn't even make sense! Which law? The ceremonial law, that makes sense but the Ten Commandments? Who perverted you in such manner by teaching you this rubbish?! Through the law we know sin, sin puts us in need of a savior. If we are not under the law (of which the Sabbath is part of) then there is no sin, therefor we need not Jesus. Jesus said it well "if you love me keep my commandments". As for the Sabbath being a perpetual mark, I indeed think it is but not only for the jew. Remember race has nothing to do with this. God is talking about HIS people. Anyone that accepts him is grafted in to the vineyard. Are we not God's people? Are we not the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise? God has a sign he has designated for his people which we must accept and that is his law. Thinking God gives one law to a man and another to another is ludicrous! Exodus 20:10 If the law was only for the Jew why did the stranger have to keep it too? God ultimately wants us all to keep his law. Through Israel he taught the world who was the true God in a time of so many false gods. Acts 20:29-30 Read ALL the Bible references I use and I pray you will see the light. God bless.
  14. Tubal

    Post-Flood Migration

    Good point, marsupial fossils have been found in China and I suspect that if we look at the presumed migratory path we should find signs of them thought remains should be scarce because fossils were mostly preserved because of the flood mud.

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