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Dig4gold

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Dig4gold last won the day on June 30 2014

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About Dig4gold

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    Judaism non-orthodox
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    Young Earth Creationist
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  1. Dig4gold

    Mid-Acts Exposed

    What mid-Acts dispensationalists take as an indication of different views of salvation I believe is better understood as the artifacts of progressive revelation and the relationship between faith and works. In both testaments, God has revealed His truth over time, in layers, like peeling an onion. There is no doubt that Peter, especially in the early portion of Acts, did not have as complete a revelation of the doctrine of the body of Christ as would eventually be given to Paul. But does this provide solid evidence of two different groups with two different relationships in regard to salvation? I think not. For example, we need only go back to the time of Abraham (far, far in advance of Peter in Acts 2) to see the truth of salvation by faith alone apart from works (Gen. 15:6). Interestingly, it is Paul himself who identifies Abraham's faith as the very means by which the Roman church attained salvation (Rom. 4:3-9). Was Peter teaching a different avenue to salvation than the OT records for Abraham or that which Paul would preach subsequently? No—the basis in every case—is faith in what God had revealed. Was Abraham's understanding of the basis of salvation exactly like that of Peter? Was Peter's understanding—at the time of Acts 2—fully that of Paul's when he penned his later epistles? Almost certainly not. This is a reflection of progressive revelation not a basis for inserting a dispensational boundary. Regarding the relationship between faith and works, it is quite easy to pop into almost any context (whether OT or NT, Pauline or otherwise) and come out with a statement which appears, on the face of it, to indicate reliance upon works as a contributor to salvation. Yet, we must judge Scripture with Scripture. When the full teaching of Scripture is brought into view, it is clear that neither Abraham, nor Peter, nor Paul believed works were a requirement for salvation—but merely an indication of true and active faith. Moreover, we can find statements by Paul, late in Acts, which essentially sound much like Peter in early Acts: Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill [me]. Here we have Paul (Acts 26:19-21) stating much the same thing as Peter (Acts 10:35) regarding the elements of salvation. This stands against the mid-Acts dispensational belief that Peter and Paul have a different understanding of salvation. There is no doubt that Paul eventually has a greater grasp of aspects of the Jew/Gentile unity which is the body of Christ (e.g., Gal. 2:11-21), but this does not mean that Peter and Paul had different understandings regarding the basis of salvation. http://www.spiritandtruth.org/questions/17.htm?x=x One of the most important topics you will hear is the mystery that Paul received about the Gospel. What is the mystery which is the subject of Paul's special revelation? The mystery concerns the identity of the body of Christ: “that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body” (Eph. 3:6). Participation in the body of Christ requires the indwelling of the Holy Spirit: “To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.” (Col. 1:27). The inescapable conclusion is that the “mystery” concerns the unity of Gentiles and Jews on completely equal footing in the “body of Christ.” Paul was given this revelation, but the timing of the creation of the body of Christ is not tied to the timing of Paul's teaching. In fact Romans 1 states that: Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; 7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. So it would seem that Paul's Gospel was foreknown by the Prophets in the Scriptures. Big blow to the MA people. And let's not even touch on the "obedience of faith", that will come up later.
  2. Dig4gold

    Mid-Acts Exposed

    Mid-Acts (MA) is a belief system that supports; We understand the Church, the Body of Christ was formed in mid-Acts as opposed to early-Acts (Acts 2) or late-Acts (Acts 28). We also do not agree with our Covenant brothers who see only one people of God throughout history and thus identify today’s Church as spiritual Israel. Early-Acts adherents (such as Ryrie) call those that believe the mid-Acts and late-Acts positions hyperdispensationalists and ultradispensationalists respectively. http://www.midactstruths.com/ Mid-Acts dispensationalism imposes a discontinuity between Peter (the early church) and Paul (the later church) which is based on inference and fails to appreciate the definition of the body of Christ. In the case of mid-Acts dispensationalism, there are a variety of views, partly because mid-Acts dispensationalists cannot agree among themselves as to when Paul's ministry to the Gentiles is thought to have transitioned from the teaching of the early church. Did this occur in Acts 9 (at Paul's conversion)? Or in Acts 13 (at Paul's initial mission to the Gentiles, Acts 13:2)? Or perhaps it was in Acts 28 when the gospel was rejected by Israel and Paul announced he would turn to the Gentiles (Acts 28:25-28)? (Some also see the transition as being in Acts 8 or 11.) http://www.spiritandtruth.org/questions/17.htm?x=x If you are confused try debating some of the people here on this site! So rather than listing all of the things that they believe let's just expose the errors and set the record straight. Mid-Acts Expose'
  3. Dig4gold

    Our Differences

    I thought I made it clear that I am not "under the law" but saved by grace through faith. ROMANS 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; What was that Paul? "set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures," The Gospel that He promised BEFOREHAND through His PROPHETS? I thought it was something that was not foreclosed! I thought that Paul had a gospel that no one ever heard before - not even God's Prophets. Of course we know from Scripture that God does nothing, not even a trumpet blown in a city without revealing it to His Prophets. (Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.) [much less a brand new gospel] Oh well, I guess this will be called some kind of game and not even a "real" challenge to the Mid-Acts position. By the way, Mid-Acts is a position that is very similar to the position that a few of the people here hold. I plan on doing a expose on this position.
  4. Dig4gold

    The 10 Commandments

    Welcome, truth. Can you elaborate?
  5. Geoscience Research Institute CORAL REEF GROWTH Ariel A. Roth Geoscience Research Institute "Sewell (1935) reported 280 mm/year in the Andaman Islands in the Bay of Bengal, and Verstelle (1932) reported a maximum rate of growth of 414 mm/year in the Celebes. This latter figure would allow for the development of the 1405 m of the Enewetak reef in less than 3400 years." "Experiments that my graduate students and I have conducted indicate that one can, at least temporarily, nearly double the rate of coral growth by raising the temperature 5ºC or by increasing the carbonate ion content of seawater." http://www.grisda.org/origins/06088.htm Science 21 September 1973: Vol. 181 no. 4105 pp. 1161-1164 DOI: 10.1126/science.181.4105.1161 Abstract: "A huge rubble rampart 18 kilometers long was formed at Funafuti Atoll during tropical cyclone Bebe on 21 October 1972. The material forming the rampart was derived from deeper water offshore. The formation appears to be permanent and indicates that tropical storms may play a significant role in the formation of atoll islets." http://www.sciencemag.org/content/181/4105/1161.abstract Just a few interesting example to consider.
  6. Dig4gold

    A Challenge

    There are two world views; special creation and evolutionism. Either it happened by itself (evolution) or it had a cause (special creation). Why then would a non-believing scientist reject evolution? As Faithful pointed out, and rightly so, once they reject evolution there is only one other option.
  7. piasan: One of the things I find amusing about ID advocates is their claim that even if we were able to create life from non-life in a lab, it would only prove an intelligent agency is required. Such a finding would prove nothing of the kind any more than bringing hydrogen and oxygen together and introducing a spark in the lab is proof an intelligent agent is required to form water. What creating anything in a lab does is to demonstrate the outcome if certain conditions exist. Well the experiment has been going on since the dawn of time - outside of the lab, and guess what, not one example of life forming from non-life. Now move into the lab and still no life from non-life even with intelligence and manipulation of the elements. But if they do then it only stands to reason that it occurred only through the manipulation of intelligence.
  8. Dig4gold

    Sabbath Debate

    Fred: You now answer the false dilemma with yet another false dilemma? Not wanting to push your limits but I pretty much just quoted Scripture from the Renewed Covenant. I don't see how that is any kind of dilemma. I do have a question that may sound a little flippant but it is not it is an honest question. If my take on "If you love Me..." is wrong then is the opposite true? Should we disobey Him of we love Him? I know that sounds crazy but I had to ask because that is the way that your position sounds to me and about most of Christendom. I noticed that in Rom 13 above that Paul says the exact same thing that Yeshua did. I noticed that in I Cor above Paul said that what matters is keeping the commands of God. I noticed that in I Thes 4 above Paul says that we know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. So I don't see a false dilemma at all but what most believers see in the scriptures, a harmony of doctrine and a call to live godly by Yeshua Himself (our Master and example) according to His teachings and instruction (Law). Accusing someone of not understanding the grace Gospel really doesn't fly. I could easily say that others do not understand how to live a righteous life in the Messiah, but I wouldn't go there. I once heard a phrase that I thought was very interesting, "saved by grace, live like the devil", but I prefer, "saved by grace, like like it".
  9. Dig4gold

    Our Differences

    Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? A salvation issue. that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. A salvation issue. the Scriptures foresaw that God would Justify the Gentiles by faith. A salvation issue. as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse. A salvation issue. "And TeeJay adds this admonition to Dig: If you get circumcised for any reason other than cultural or medical, you automatically place yourself under the curse of the law--a law that you can't possibly keep" Does that apply to Abraham also? "When was Paul not under the law? When he was too young to be under it" And when he accepted Yeshua into his life. "When does the law pass away? The law passes away individually for each of us when we accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice for us." That's almost what I said above but I would not phrase it that way because the Law will pass away when... Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. Mat 24:35 "We are taken out from under the curse of the law and baptized into Jesus Christ." That is a much better way to phrase it! "But you are not a citizen of Israel" I disagree. I am a member of Israel and being Jewish has nothing to do with it. God does not have two sets of chosen people, He only has one. Remember that all of humanity was divided up into two groups, Israel and the rest of the nations. Out of only two groups how many could be chosen? Answer, only one. If both groups are "chosen" then there is no distinction at all. For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. Deut 7:6
  10. Dig4gold

    Sabbath Debate

    Is obedience ever optional with the Lord? That is why Yeshua said, "If you love Me...", oops, never mind.
  11. Dig4gold

    Our Differences

    Both are correct? Jesus is wrong and Paul is a false prophet? Really? Any male believer in Yeshua certainly can become circumcised if they choose to as long as they are not depending on it to earn salvation. They have to be mature enough in the Lord to understand the difference. I think that believing parents should circumcise their male children on the eighth day as it is commanded.
  12. Dig4gold

    Sabbath Debate

    Fred: I have honestly not spent a great deal of time studying the Lord's Supper and how different churches put their take on it. When I read the passage you cited in its entirety I see nothing in here that fits your view of having to keep the Passover, build stuff with duct tape, etc. Really, this is all you need to know about it; "do this in remembrance of Me". It can be as simple as the bread/matzah and wine/juice. The key is remembering Him and His sacrificial death until He comes.
  13. Dig4gold

    Sabbath Debate

    Fred: Dig, I can count on one hand over the last 10 years the times I've had to put the Mod hat on in the Bible section in a thread I'm involved in. I've confirmed that you have posted this false dilemma now multiple times to different members. You are warned to not do this going forward. It has been explained to you why this is a false dilemma. If you post this fallacy again you will be suspended. Fred It is not a false dilemma because of the following: Yeshua does not put any qualifiers on His remark, i.e. If you are Jewish and love Me..., if you have been circumcised and love Me...,etc. Yeshua said, "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full." John 15:8-11 Paul said, "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. I Cor 1:1-3 Paul said, "For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body." Eph 5:23 Yeshua said, "And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Mat 28:18-20 Yeshua said, "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.” John 12:48-50 Yeshua said, "You are My friends if you do what I command you." John 15:14 Paul said, "Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:8-10 Paul said, "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God." 1 Cor 7:19 Paul said, "Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from S@xual immorality;" I Thes 4:1-3 Paul says, "If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, I Tim 6:3-4 "I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, I Tim 6:13-14 Peter says, "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.” II Peter 2:21-22 Peter says, "This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles." II Peter 3:1-2 John says, "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked." I John 2:3-6 There are of course many more examples I could use to illustrate the harmony of living a life that is pleasing to God, that is demonstrating our love and devotion to Him by observing His commands but these should suffice. To be clear is it all of the words of Jesus that I am restricted from using or just the verse you mentioned?
  14. Dig4gold

    Our Differences

    "Here are your choices: Jesus is wrong. Paul is a false prophet." I don't agree that those are the only two choices but if you think they are then tell me which one is correct. Concerning he two verse you referenced (in Ex and Num) I meant to say the main issue was not eating but joining in the sacrificing and making a covenant. I'm glad that you used Scripture to make your point though. You have the same situation with the verses in Rev you reference: Rev 2:14 is about "holding to a doctrine/teaching" Rev 2:20 is about "tolerating a false prophetess" The eating part of these verses would be moot if they did not have a bad conscience about it as Paul says in I Cor 8 or they were not leading weaker ones astray. "Thus some Jews, remembering that God hanged the Jews in Exodus 25:4, would elect to eat vegetables. That a circumcision Jew could not eat meat sacrificed to idols and that Paul's uncircumcised converts could is irrefragable." Two questions; where does it say that in Ex 25:4 and what is "irrefragable"?
  15. Dig4gold

    Our Differences

    To suggest that Yeshua and Paul had contradictory teachings does not make sense because Paul received his doctrine directly from Yeshua. Isn't that what you have said about his doctrine and his gospel? Ex 34:12-15 is about making a covenant with the pagans and not eating. Num 25:2-3 is about joining in on sacrificing to idols and not eating.
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