Dredge

"And then shall be revealed the lawless one ... even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." - 2Thess 2:8-12.

If creation is true, it would be reasonable to expect that ancient cultures would reflect this stupendously important event in their folklore - they do; lots of them. If evolution is true, how can all these creatiion stories be explained?

Both supernatural events, the serpent and donkey couldn't talk from biology. I believe it's reasonable to not take them hyper-literally. I think there has been plenty of evidence of Demonic posession where a different voice is heard coming from people... For example Young girls spewing obscenities and other utterances in low hideous voices.In one of his books, the late Catholic exorcist, Fr. Gabriele Amorth, relates the story of a very young Italian girl who lived in a small village and who suddenly started speaking a strange language that was eventually identified as ancient Greek. Previously, she couldn't even speak common Italian, but only the dialect that was unique to her region. Suddenly being able to speak a foreign tongue is apparently a common sign of demonic possession, which turned out to be the case for this girl. Atheists dismiss documented cases like these as nonsense, of course, which is not an explanation, but simply wilful denial of reality.

Mike, you seem to be forgetting Lassie, Rin Tin Tin and Rex - all very smart dogs. Then there was Skippy the Bush Kangaroo, whom I once saw driving a speed boat! And what about the redoubtable Mr. Ed, the horse that mastered human speech and human thoughts. All this adds up to irrefutable evidence that the "lower creatures" are evolving intelligence that will one day rival that of humans.

I can't see why a local, "everyday" flood could not produce a fossil.

Human dignity is hard to define, I think, but it's related to being made in the image of God. If naturalistic evolution is true, I can't see how humans can have any dignity at all, as they just pointless, accidental machines that come from nothing and go back to nothing. How can dignity be extracted from meaninglessness? I don't think I'm above anyone else. God loves everyone.

There are evo' Christians who also believe that man descended from a lower primate, but that point of view still repulses me. I hard to put my finger on why exactly, but my spirit recoils from the idea. There is a voice coming from deep in my soul that keeps telling me evolution is not the truth. I prefer to think of my "common ancestor" as God Almighty, not some smelly ape. I think the "ape" theory is an offence against human dignity.

Here's something evil about the idea that humans evolved from a lower primate. No amount of evidence will allow me to accept that theory.

i'm sure you have heard of the movie "planet of the apes".it was noted that during the filming of this movie, the gorillas, orangutans, and the chimps hung out with their "kind".the gorillas took their lunch breaks together etc.it apparently didn't matter what the actor was.Interesting!

Cultural Marxism. I get the impression that Far-right anti-Semiticism has little to do with religion. Hitler wanted to exterminate the jewish race, not just the Jewish religion. The Far-right has learnt to keep their Jew-animus as inconspicuos as possible. But it's true what you say - a lot of folks who are now being attracted to the Far-right aren't anti-Semitic - more like anti-Islam. Asians want to hang out with asians, blacks want to hang out with blacks and whites want to hang out with whites .... as a general rule. It's obvious that there are "natural barriers" between the races.

Looking at the news nowadays it seems like floods aren't so uncommon.Considering where humans tended to settle (near fresh water supplies) its not unlikely that local floods contributed to flood myths. With regard to creation myths, I'm under the impression that "Goddidit" used to be a very common explanation. When I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_mythsonly a relatively small part have creation ex nihilo like the Abrahamic religions propose. Many ancient cultures didn't record anything in writing; folklore relied on oral transmission. Imagine how different a story could end up from the original if it is passed on orally over thousands of years. Only the kernel of the original story may be left - if you're lucky. For this reason God had his word written down, so that the truth could accurately be transmitted down through the generations.

Pierre-P. Grasse: "Assuming that the Darwinian hypothesis ... [paleontologists then] interpret fossil data according to it .... The error in their method is obvious."

Exactly, there's no reason to accept the double standard except; "believe it because we believe evolution happened", revealing that macro evolution for that scenario is nothing more than an argument from credulity; "I believe it did happen that way against any facts by faith, therefore it did." (read my signature, it will tell you.) Once creation is rejected as a possibility, one really has no alternative but to accept the general theory of evolution; it is the only "plausible explanation" out there in Godless World. The miracle of creation (which requires faith) is replaced by the magic of abiogenesis/evolution (which requires faith).

Tee hee ... that's such a silly story! Imagine if there were people who actually believed that to be true ... and imagine if they called it a scientific fact!

You don't have to know what a "cultural Marxist" is to be one - all you have to do is conform to the Zeitgeist of Western civilization. You're right, I'm definitely not politically correct. Political correctness is a manifestation of cultural Marxism. I didn't know exactly what a "white nationalist" is, but having looked it up, I would say some of my views are consistent with "white nationalism". But having said that, I have no truck with the anti-Semitic aspect of the Far Right, especially since I am part-Jewish. I also believe the Jews and the nation of Israel play very important roles in God's plan for humanity. I have had friends of all races, but I believe there are "natural barriers" between the races that can't be ignored and will never be eradicated.

Does the "Out of Africa" theory mean white people evolved from negroes? The biological theory of out of Africa does mean that we are all originally from Africa and thus white skinned people evolved from dark skinned people, yes, but your language, lol. I assume you don't know how racist that sounds in the 21st century. I'm not a follower of the religion of Cultural Marxism, so I don't consider the word "negro" to be racist. Since the word is derived from the Latin word for "black", it is no more racist that calling a black man, "black", or a white man, "white". If it was good enough for Martin Luther King to use "negro", then it's good enough for me. Let me guess, you consider "eskimo" to be a racist term as well; and like any good neo-Marxist, you probably don't have a problem with white people sometimes being referred to as "white trash".

Does the "Out of Africa" theory mean white people evolved from negroes?

Atheists are experts at making huge leaps - that's how they can accept the absurdly massive extrapolations that Darwinism depends on.

Important to whom? Irrelevant to whom? Worth more to whom? These are all subjective questions that evolution can't really speak to, other than possibly to explain how we as humans came to consider other humans more important than rocks.Because humans tend to think of individual humans as worth more than most bacteria, we construct our morality on that basis. Bacteria might disagree if they had the capacity to do so, and if they did we wouldn't really be able to resolve that disagreement with proof, since it's a conflict that goes down to fundamentally subjective questions about what we value and why.As far as I can ascertain, evolution implies that the only difference between a human being and a bug is functional complexity. The fact that humans can imagine that their lives are meaningful doesn't change the evolutionary "fact" that they are just a more complex version of a bug. As one "clear-thinking" atheist once told me, "We're just grubs."

There seems to be some confusion, usually old-earth creationists believe in a Billions year old universe.Typically <6000 years is called young-earth creation. You're free to use whatever label you decide of course. What do you see as a young-earth creationist? I believe life was created on earth about 5778 years ago, but that the earth existed before that for a period of time that is unknown to me.

Greetings to all. I've been on several atheism-centric forums to discuss ToE, but I tired of the abuse and the bizarre aversion to rational thinking. So I thought I'd head for friendlier and saner waters. When I came across Evolution Fairytale I thought it sounded right up my alley. I am Roman Catholic and an old-earth creationist - however, I would like to make it very clear that I am definitely NOT a theistic evolutionist! I believe that the Lord created all life on earth in six days (each of 24-hours duration), about 5778 years ago. I regard theistic evolution as a heresy, since evolution is totally incompatible with, and makes a mockery of, Holy Scripture. If the truth of the Genesis account of creation can be thrown into doubt, then the entire Bible can be thrown into doubt. Whom should a Christian believe - the Word of God, or a bunch of deluded atheist pseudo-scientists? Surely, the wise man will choose the former and the only a fool will choose the latter. I also believe that the theory of evolution is not only the greatest hoax in the history of mankind, but is demonically inspired - to promote atheism and to blind mankind to the truth and light of Christ and the Gospel. Sadly, many of my fellow Catholics are theistic evolutionists, but as a model of how a true Catholic should regard ToE, I highly recommend the anti-evolution writings of the late Catholic intellectual, Paula Haigh (eg, Thirty Theses Against Theistic Evolution). I would also like to mention that although many high-ranking Catholics are theistic evolutionists, Catholics are free to totally reject ToE and believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis 1 - as many of them do.

"Neither Darwin nor Hitler would be considered experts on the theory of evolution nowadays.Hahah... You still dont get it do you.. There IS NO SUCH THING as an "Expert" in the "Theory of Evolution" because THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EVOLUTION"!!! (Merely Variation and Adaptation followed by mass amounts extrapolation and imagination..) That is like claiming one can be an "Expert" in the benefits of Eating Dogmess or an "Expert" in Santa's Methodology for delivering presents to all on Christmas eve or an "Expert" in how the Terminator was able to travel back in time to save Sarah Connor.. There are a many "Experts" on the fraud of Darwin's Mindless MYO Mud to Man Myth, but they all have one thing in common.. They all know that there is NO SUCH THING AS EVOLUTION.. You have merely been brainwashed and indoctrinated into believing that there is.. Don't you remember the name of this website you are on now? Snap out if it..!! I once met someone who claimed to be an expert on the Tooth Fairy, but I didn't believe him.

Please demonstrate that it cannot have meaning. If not you're presenting a bare assessment fallacy.How is this thought?: If you come from nothing and go back to nothing, you are nothing.

I think he meant that life cannot have Righteous meaning.. It can have "Meaning", but if the Authority of our Creator is removed from the equation, that "Meaning" is COMPLETELY subjective.. To some people, that which gives their lives "meaning" might be to go around in gangs like the Mara Salvatrucha 13 who enjoy murdering, torturing, child prostitution, drug traffiking, kidnapping, and anything else that floats their boat.. And if the current "War on Police" continues, many cops might start deciding it is too risky politically to confron these gangs.. And you are left with nothing.. Because as an Atheist, you have ABANDONED the right to claim the moral high ground as your opinion of what is "Meaningful" is just your opinion which has ZERO Authority behind it as you have removed the Author of Life itself from our Society... You can no longer tell people what they should consider "Right" or what is "Wrong" It is called Moral Anarchy.. And we are living that today... How else do you think that it is "Legal" to torture and murder innocent, defenseless human beings for Convenience? I meant Convenience with "MEANING" Sorry... Yes.. Life has meaning... Sure it does.. Most humans beings need to believe that their lives have meaning and purpose. Atheists are no exception; and they will vehmently insist that their lives are meaningful - while at the same time vehmently insisting that life is the result of mindless evolution, and that when they die they go from being an organised collection of atoms to a disorganised collection of atoms. But evolution also implies that rational thinking is optional.

Please demonstrate that it cannot have meaning. If not you're presenting a bare assessment fallacy.This is a tough assignment! But in the meantime, I'll say this: I think how life "ends" is more important than how it starts. By that I mean, only immortality can begin to give life purpose and meaning, imo.