Jump to content
Evolution Fairytale Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Adam Nagy

Hell's Best Kept Secret

Recommended Posts

...and that is exactly the point of how Ray and Kirk approach the unrepentant sinner.  :blink:

 

The people who misuse the law are those that teach salvation by keeping it. This is most certainly not what Ray or Kirk are teaching yet this is what Paul is speaking against, those teachers that twist the law into a works based salvation.

 

You will never see them telling people to follow the law for salvation, it is always grace alone through faith, they use it correctly to show people that they are already condemned... this is what the law is good for, to make sin exceedingly sinful, and we should use it to show people that sin isn't just a scratch or a blemish but a malignant cancer that has sentenced the individual to death.

31300[/snapback]

*

Well, with love and respect...they don't, they approach everyone that way, I am perfectly happy and willing to tell you that I have and would use that selfsame formula i.e. have you ever lied? stolen? been angry? etc in personal witnessing as a conversation turned in that way.

My point is that this is their main thrust and they have built a whole philosophical outlook around it, their whole focus is to confront people with their sin.

Now dear Adam if we was sat out on your veranda sipping a glass of lemonade in the sunshine, I would open my heart and tell you candidly that I believe there is a certain amount of dishonesty in the way they are doing, of course I cannot do that on a public forum, but I sense it in my bones, I would like to know stuff like how many hours and days of filming were needed to get those outdoor presentations just so-so, I noticed how aware Kirk made those "gangsters" who actually looked to me more like just the lads out having a bit of fun, he made them very aware that they were being filmed-I would not go so far as to say it was staged mind, just extremely well managed, and the girl at the and who [well look closely and judge for yourself] got a bit of dust in her eye that made her look teary. Of course this is outrageous and I could only say it between ourselves. Those guys are extremely smooth operators, and I will say that if a few christians were to go out downtown Chicago and try the same thing they might find themselves running into difficulties-They know that which is why they opened with all that stuff about martyrs, that is a cover for their butts when would be imitators come back at them. Aren't I dreadful to say such things? such cynicism, oh dear I'm in trouble now.

I'll tell you why, because I do it Adam and when you go out a'soulwinning it doesn't happen that way-still these are only my cynicisms and can't be proved, BUT if I'm right truth will out eventually.

The point is what is bible?

Actss17v22-34

*

So Paul standing in the midst of the Areopagus said "Men of Athens, I percieve that in every way you are very religious for as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship I also found an altar with the inscription "to the unknown god" what therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

The God Who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth does not live in temples made by man, nor is He served by human hands as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward Him and find Him. Yet He is not far from each one of us for "in Him we live and move and have our being" as even one of your own poets have said "for we are indeed His offspring."

Being then God's offspring we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of men.

The times of ignorance God overlooked but now He commands all people everywhere to repent because He has fixed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a man He has appointed, and of this He has given assurance to all by raising Him from the dead."

If you take this proclamation point by point it is so beautiful, cor I bet so many of those Athenians wondered about this "unknown God" what ccould He be like? and here is this guy telling about Him-"He sounds pretty wonderful doesn't He?" they might have said "you know I always thought God might be like that....we are His offspring, He wants us to discover Him....and what was that he said about a resurrection?"

Nobody felt accused or condemned about anything, it just isn't there, we know that in subsequent dealings Paul would have explained all about the cross and the whys and hows everything came to be as it is-I bet he explained right gently and respectfully-no need for censoriousness. What I see Adam is that christians have taken whole chunks out of the epistles, letters written to churches and church leaders, people who are already christians, and transposed them onto the gospel proclamation.

It is seen as an attempt and is indeed an attempt to force our morals upon an unbelieving population-that's how people see it and yet people still wonder about God and if they could first learn that He is real-God is able to reveal Himself as real-they might want to learn His ways, this makes christianity a wonderful discovery.

Now if you want to flog me about what I said about R&K I partly accept it was awful, I half apologise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totton,

 

We should probably continue this privately but I must address your charge, how they only managed to make their presentation "look good". I would be swayed to consider your charge only if I hadn't experienced point for point what they said I would, first hand. :(

 

I go out and talk to people, with some of the local pastors, and they themselves are amazed and invigorated in their own walks when they see the way of our Lord and Master working when we approach people exactly the way scripture tells us to.

 

There was no stage management because God has told us how to approach His lost kids. The problem is that we've listened to the world's complaints and feel ashamed because they don't like the conviction that comes from disciples evangelizing and opening doors for conviction to enter.

 

When we, as Christians, are behaving in a timid and socially accepted way, we're listening to culture and not scripture. The pressure to conform socially comes directly from the society around us, not the Word of God. Unfortunately, many churches teach this kinder gentler approach but that is not what got the disciples thrown in jail now is it? :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totton,

 

We should probably continue this privately but I must address your charge, how they only managed to make their presentation "look good". I would be swayed to consider your charge only if I hadn't experienced point for point what they said I would, first hand. :(

 

I go out and talk to people, with some of the local pastors, and they themselves are amazed and invigorated in their own walks when they see the way of our Lord and Master working when we approach people exactly the way scripture tells us to.

 

There was no stage management because God has told us how to approach His lost kids. The problem is that we've listened to the world's complaints and feel ashamed because they don't like the conviction that comes from disciples evangelizing and opening doors for conviction to enter.

 

When we, as Christians, are behaving in a timid and socially accepted way, we're listening to culture and not scripture. The pressure to conform socially comes directly from the society around us, not the Word of God. Unfortunately, many churches teach this kinder gentler approach but that is not what got the disciples thrown in jail now is it? :blink:

31322[/snapback]

*

:D Many brothers would not have accepted what I said with such grace, If you are saying you are winning souls with this project then I must concede to that but christians DO get excited with any planned outreach especially as it is usually combined with a quickening of prayer life and fellowship and reaffirmation of commitment, ahem it is me who is quoting scripture in whole chunks, the above is a masterpiece by Paul of taking note of culture. I would re, re state that it was because of the success of miracle ministry and because the church was held in high esteem by the people that brought persecution, the kinder, gentler approach I am always referring to is the Acts of the apostles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

Our Terms