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Adam Nagy

Ap Poll Data

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Interesting.

 

Some of the polling was encouraging like the majority leaning toward a creation model. Some of it was ominous like how many receive their healthcare through their work. When Obamacare kicks in for the businesses a lot of people are going to be affected or inflicted depending upon your opinion of it.

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Inflicted

 

I agree, though we have kinda the same thing here in Australia (plus gun control etc), though there is starting to be a bit of panic here as the number of people on entitlements rises the Government has had to institute harder and harder measures to get onto disability benefits due to people abusing them.. (I personally knew three people who did, 2 for "back aches", one of these would go out and surf, the last for a "learning disability" despite playing a hobby I play which is intricately complex).

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The problem with socialism... You eventually run out of other people's money.

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The problem with socialism... You eventually run out of other people's money.

 

Absolutely.

 

Its frustrating how people do not realise this. We have some very liberal-minded people in my classes for education and they seem to think that the Government is a bottomless pit of money from which the Government should pay for X, Y and Z...

 

I saw a youtube video of a similar minded woman who claimed that everybody likes to work so the people on benefits would be those who need it, obviously she needs to wake up to the world... There are some people out there who do not want to work, or at least work in the jobs they are suited for; since there are too many people out there with no skills but expect to have a great job.. I used to work on a farm, it wasn't the best job but it was work so I can't complain. The owner had to get workers from the Philippines due to the Aussie workers either not wanting to work there, leave shortly after, or attempt to fudge a workers compensation claim.

 

If all the person is qualified to do is to shovel dirt then guess what the person will be doing ;)

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If all the person is qualified to do is to shovel dirt then guess what the person will be doing ;)

The world needs ditch diggers too!

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The world needs ditch diggers too!

 

Very true, though I guess because digging ditches doesn't pay $25-30 an hour, (probably $15/hr), many young people will stiff their noses at that work.

 

Oh and I am loathe to talk about Aussies negatively, we used to be a hard-working nation (back when we were protectionist), we made all of our own stuff with lots of manufacturing. However that isn't the case now, the entitlement mentality is dragging more and more people under the spell that they don't have to work in order to earn a living.

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I agree, though we have kinda the same thing here in Australia (plus gun control etc).

What you find here is that support for gun control is concentrated in urban areas. Around here, good gun control is when you hit your target.

 

 

Its frustrating how people do not realise this. We have some very liberal-minded people in my classes for education and they seem to think that the Government is a bottomless pit of money from which the Government should pay for X, Y and Z...

I've been watching the same thing here for decades. When you ask these people how to pay for these programs, it's always "tax the rich." They don't seem to get it that we could tax everyone making over $1 million at 100% and not even cover our defecit .... let alone pay for new programs.

 

I saw a youtube video of a similar minded woman who claimed that everybody likes to work so the people on benefits would be those who need it, obviously she needs to wake up to the world... There are some people out there who do not want to work, or at least work in the jobs they are suited for;

To me, youtube videos are somewhat suspicious. There are certainly those who do not want to work. It's one of the reasons communism will never succeed as a government ... it rewards mediocrity and failure as much as it rewards excellence and success.

 

since there are too many people out there with no skills but expect to have a great job.. I used to work on a farm, it wasn't the best job but it was work so I can't complain. The owner had to get workers from the Philippines due to the Aussie workers either not wanting to work there, leave shortly after, or attempt to fudge a workers compensation claim.

We have a similar problem here. Even university graduates are having problems finding jobs. On the other hand, low skill jobs are going begging for people to fill them. As a result, we end up with workers from Mexico taking those jobs.

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I've been watching the same thing here for decades. When you ask these people how to pay for these programs, it's always "tax the rich." They don't seem to get it that we could tax everyone making over $1 million at 100% and not even cover our deficit .... let alone pay for new programs.

 

Add in the fact that those some may deem "rich" are in fact small business owners who have to compete in an increasingly competitive world. To raise taxes for these businesses and the need for them to stay competitive may mean for them some cuts would need to be made, hence leading to the cutting of jobs, less jobs = less tax for the Government = Bigger debt..

 

This video was very enlightening, I wonder why Obama still got his Obamacare through even after the gimmicks were exposed..

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1yTY2MciOk

 

To me, youtube videos are somewhat suspicious. There are certainly those who do not want to work. It's one of the reasons communism will never succeed as a government ... it rewards mediocrity and failure as much as it rewards excellence and success.

 

It was a video of some lady who apparently is big in American politics because she was on the news chatting. I trust youtube videos that are copies of tv programs, it would be hard for an average joe to hoax them.

 

I agree communism sucks, however that doesn't stop the posters calling out for Marxism to be plastered all over my university

 

 

We have a similar problem here. Even university graduates are having problems finding jobs. On the other hand, low skill jobs are going begging for people to fill them. As a result, we end up with workers from Mexico taking those jobs.

 

Sounds like many of the Western world need a reality check.

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Add in the fact that those some may deem "rich" are in fact small business owners who have to compete in an increasingly competitive world. To raise taxes for these businesses and the need for them to stay competitive may mean for them some cuts would need to be made, hence leading to the cutting of jobs, less jobs = less tax for the Government = Bigger debt..

Yep. Over here, something like 80% of jobs are with employers who have less than 20 (IIRC) employees.

 

 

This video was very enlightening, I wonder why Obama still got his Obamacare through even after the gimmicks were exposed.. ....

 

It was a video of some lady who apparently is big in American politics because she was on the news chatting. I trust youtube videos that are copies of tv programs, it would be hard for an average joe to hoax them.

Agreed. I didn't realize it was a video of a news cast. I would have to guess the "lady" was Nancy Pelosi, former Speaker of the House and still leader of the Democratic members of the House.

 

 

I agree communism sucks, however that doesn't stop the posters calling out for Marxism to be plastered all over my university

As a system of government, it does. As a voluntary system, it isn't all that bad. There are Catholic religious orders that have been operating as communist societies for well over 500 years. (Members of those orders own no property, take a vow of poverty and obedience, and have their needs met by the society as a whole.) Keep in mind, the keyword here is VOLUNTARY. The system cannot and will not work if it is implemented by government coercion.

 

Don't go ballistic on me here, but a case can be made that Christ himself endorsed communist ideas. He taught the rich should give up their wealth and follow him; that we should take care of the poor and downtrodden; and that if we do so, God will take care of us.

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Don't go ballistic on me here, but a case can be made that Christ himself endorsed communist ideas. He taught the rich should give up their wealth and follow him; that we should take care of the poor and downtrodden; and that if we do so, God will take care of us.

 

Why would anyone go ballistic?

 

He did teach those things, however communism defies the biggest gift God gave to man which is freewill.

 

Additionally Jesus' teachings were of individual choice, "take up your cross and follow me", rather than relying on government authority or power of the state.

 

Also there is the fact that Communist countries (like Russia in Soviet Union days) outlawed Religion including Christianity and made atheism the state doctrine. If Jesus really was a communist and extolled communist virtues then why wouldn't communist countries adopt this?

 

All these I believe is enough to refute this communism link you are implying.

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Why would anyone go ballistic?

It's happened before when dealing with YEC and I point out the similarity of Jesus' teachings with communism.

 

 

He did teach those things, however communism defies the biggest gift God gave to man which is freewill.

Actually, I really doubt that. Communism, as such, does not exclude free will. Offshoots of communism, such as Marxism or Leninism are a different story. You aren't old enough to remember this, but in the '60's and 70's we had a lot of people start communes.

 

 

Additionally Jesus' teachings were of individual choice, "take up your cross and follow me", rather than relying on government authority or power of the state.

Which I pointed out is why as a VOLUNTARY system, communism is not bad. As a system of government implemented by state coercion, it is doomed to failure. There are religious orders of the Catholic Church such as the Franciscans (to which Pope Francis belongs) that practice communism. The Franciscans have existed for over 800 years (since 1210). The Dominicans (1203) and Jesuits (1540) are other examples of orders in the Catholic church that take oaths of poverty, obedience, and chastity.

 

 

Also there is the fact that Communist countries (like Russia in Soviet Union days) outlawed Religion including Christianity and made atheism the state doctrine. If Jesus really was a communist and extolled communist virtues then why wouldn't communist countries adopt this?

Again, this is a situation in which communism is implemented by government mandate ... which we agree won't work ..... not individual volunteerism. You are equating Marxism with communism.

 

 

All these I believe is enough to refute this communism link you are implying.

I believe they would ... except for the link to voluntary participation which you have pointed out as a matter of "individual choice."

 

Looking for our areas of agreement here.... Jesus said we should voluntarily give up our wealth, give to the poor, and follow Him. For lack of a better term, this is "good communism." On the other hand, Marxism implements pretty much the same thing, but by government decree in a non-voluntary fashion. This is "bad communism. Notice, depending on the specifics of its application, communism may be used for good or for evil.

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Communism or community? I can see a place where the community takes care of the young, the old and the sick without allowing the healthy members to scam the system. The Word says that if a man does not work he should not eat. It says that a man who does not take care of his family is worse than an infidel.

 

So I see the solution as a responsible compassionate community. Individuals that are generous but strong and do not allow anyone to game the system. In a sense they are protecting or guarding their community from those who would deceive or harm it.

 

Private ownership is a must because not everyone has the same requirements or goals. If there was a community that did share the same goals and were on the same approximate economic level like the early believers mentioned above then that is their decision and everyone essentially made up their own minds about it. I don't see that as a long term solution to the general public though.

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Communism or community?

Don't community, commune, and communism all share the same root word?

 

 

I can see a place where the community takes care of the young, the old and the sick without allowing the healthy members to scam the system. The Word says that if a man does not work he should not eat. It says that a man who does not take care of his family is worse than an infidel.

If the community is "takes care of the young, the old and the sick" isn't that a form of communism or socialism?

 

 

If there was a community that did share the same goals and were on the same approximate economic level like the early believers mentioned above then that is their decision and everyone essentially made up their own minds about it. I don't see that as a long term solution to the general public though.

In what way is that different from what I said.... that as a VOLUNTARY system, communism is a good ideal but that it will not work if it is mandated by government?

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piasan, yes to all. I wasn't trying to say anything different just a different way to say it.

 

I believe today that the term communism cannot be separated from the state in a lot of people's minds. I just wanted to be clear that I did not support that concept.

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piasan, yes to all. I wasn't trying to say anything different just a different way to say it.

 

I believe today that the term communism cannot be separated from the state in a lot of people's minds. I just wanted to be clear that I did not support that concept.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification, and I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.

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Hey Pi, I think I have to point something out in regards to your post on the Catholic Priests and communism. As a former Catholic, I was taught that these priests were living as the Levite Priests did in the old testament system. This wasn't communism, but allowed the priests time to fulfill all the religious duties the people required. I hope this sheds a bit of light on the thought process! :)

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Hey Pi, I think I have to point something out in regards to your post on the Catholic Priests and communism. As a former Catholic, I was taught that these priests were living as the Levite Priests did in the old testament system. This wasn't communism, but allowed the priests time to fulfill all the religious duties the people required. I hope this sheds a bit of light on the thought process! smile.png

As a student at Catholic schools for 15 years, I know for a fact that neither Dominicans nor Jesuits own personal property. As far as I know, the orders I mentioned... Franciscans, Jesuits, and Dominicans .... all take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. If they have needs, the Church takes care of them. I'm not certain that all Catholic religious orders take those vows.

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As a student at Catholic schools for 15 years, I know for a fact that neither Dominicans nor Jesuits own personal property. As far as I know, the orders I mentioned... Franciscans, Jesuits, and Dominicans .... all take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. If they have needs, the Church takes care of them. I'm not certain that all Catholic religious orders take those vows.

That's what I mean. It's supposed to harken back to the Levites.

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....

 

As a system of government, it does.  As a voluntary system, it isn't all that bad.  There are Catholic religious orders that have been operating as communist societies for well over 500 years.  (Members of those orders own no property, take a vow of poverty and obedience, and have their needs met by the society as a whole.)  Keep in mind, the keyword here is VOLUNTARY.  The system cannot and will not work if it is implemented by government coercion.

 

Don't go ballistic on me here, but a case can be made that Christ himself endorsed communist ideas.  He taught the rich should give up their wealth and follow him; that we should take care of the poor and downtrodden; and that if we do so, God will take care of us.

You certainly meant "Communism" and it's true, there are communities of goods, that are not violently coercive. 

Marxism on the other hand requires coercion and violence by default (class struggle). The classical form openly advocated violence, throwing over society and establishing a "dictatorship of the Proletariat". Most people considered the idea ridiculous, but dangerous at the time. That's why they only managed to get somewhere in Russia, which was relatively primitive and completely exhausted during world war one. Of course there was also foreign money involved to bankroll the Revolution - The Bolsheviks lost the elections though.

 

Today the Marxists threw the workers under the bus, while still chunking about "Capitalism" of course. But their target isn't really class struggle anymore, also not "Communism", there focus is more in the micro-social and cultural fields: S@xual liberation, anti-authoritarianism, female versus male, young versus old (less popular right now), ethnic minorities against "The Majority", homos against heteronormativity, "White Privilege"-debates. Essentially what the Social Justice Warriors are running on now.  

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