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Questions For Theistic Evolutionists

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Theistic evolutionists are not atheists.....


Just pointing out the obvious.

Thanks piasan I do know the difference. I know I kind of hijacked the OP and took it somewhere else :D


Kairos, it's interesting that Venter says, the universe is, "far more wonderful". Whatever does he mean by, "wonderful"? Is that not a subjective term? If atheism is true, what is, "wonderful", it is nothing, therefore Venter's opinion is nothing, because his opinion is nothing more than some chemicals bouncing around his head, that have evolved from pond-scum.


I find that an interesting epithet to use, "wonderful".


Now if you are a Christian, you can appreciate the true wonder of creation for what it is without lying. You don't have to pretend that a butterfly is only beautiful to the human but that objectively it is a created thing. You don't have to believe morality is invented by man, you don't have to believe that freewill is an illusion. You don't have to pretend that a miraculous level of design in organisms and in nature generally, is a mirage and that it was intelligently designed by something with no intelligence. (evolution).


In short, you can take reality for what it is - truly wonderful because it is a miraculous creation. A creation with meaning. But in Venter's world - what is 'meaning'?, What is 'wonderful'? They are nothing more than the opines of relativity. They are dust, shadows, phantoms, and the atheist becomes the puppeteer that animates them, having no tether to the earth himself.


Furthermore, if the creation is wonderful then since the Creator made it, the Creator would be wonderful as the creation is a reflection of the creator. It is an assumption that we "assume" God is there, just because the atheists say we do, as though they have proven the bible is not God's voice to us.


To say the universe is too wonderful to be made by God is like saying that a wonderful song is too wonderful to be sung by a wonderful singer. A contradiction, for they both compliment eacother. To imagine that God existing would not be wonderful, is bizarre and shows how far from God the unbelieving mind is in it's belief in falsehoods and contradictions and a failure to even understand base-wisdom.


Where do these guys come from, Goku? Who are these people you quote, that have no wisdom and state contradictions as though we should value them?


S O P H I S T R Y. Why do you glorify these glorified sinners in your mind?


Absolutely! I remember watching a Christian movie "GOD's NOT DEAD" and one of the reference was used by John Lennox "Nonsense remains nonsense even for Stephen Hawking"

It kind of reminded me of Venter how you were describing "Wonderful".


Hmm I always wondered but never got around to it. I have a question for evolution:

1. Why are insects, animals, hamo sapiens, etc, have almost a perfect outline or perpendicular in design? Why is it not a random design? (hope that makes sense)


Example: http://www.bestanimations.com/Animals/Insects/Butterflys/butterfly-animated-gif-32.gif

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It didn't destroy everything. In my opinion, the factual Noah's Ark flood was a localized event in the area of what is today Iraq, but was then Mesopotamia or Sumer. A man likely gathered a pair of all of his domestic animals and put them on board a large version of the traditional river vessel of the region: a hollowed out, circular boat. This hypothesis of mine is supported by the fact that a 4000+ year old clay tablet was unearthed in the past few years from Iraq, depicting just such a story. If I'm not mistaken, the name of the man is also Noah.


It's your opinion. Don't garner it with factual. It's a hypothesis at best, finding a tablet with a similar story is interesting, but doesn't make it true. One that doesn't really make that much sense for a number of reasons. If that was a localized flooding, why didn't they just move to higher ground? 


This event was likely the kernel of truth behind the legend. The story was seized upon by people across the region of various faiths. This is why we see older, polytheistic versions of the Noah's ark story, such as the famous Epic of Gilgamesh, in which the Noah figure goes by the name Utnapishtim. All religions that sought to tell the more mythical version of the actual events did so in the context of their own gods.

 (global) Flood stories aren't limited to "across" the region, they are a world-wide phenomenon. How do you know the other versions are older? Here is another hypothesis:

There was indeed a global flood. Noah and family were indeed the only survivors. After the flood they had more children. At a stage those people were spreading out over the earth, since their languages had been confused. The spread out people told stories to their children about their ancestors. Those ancestors became gods and the stories were altered or corrupted. As the languages were radically altered as well, those "gods" had different names. With time the stories may have become mixed up, have omissions or were embellished a bit. 


Get the picture. The story was spread by traditions of people that split up at some stage (which was btw also a commandment - fill the Earth, become many[different] people )



In Jewish tradition, the flood was exaggerated to cover the whole Earth instead of just a region, so that all humans but Noah were wiped out. The reason for this exaggeration is that the story was probably never meant to be taken literally. Instead, it is a parabolic device meant to show God's immense power, and even more importantly, His promise to humanity that He would never bring such a cataclysm on them again is meant to demonstrate His love.

A story doesn't have to be entirely literally factual in order to be true. It's all about conveying a message.


Literally = taken as the text is meant. You mean to see it was to be taken figuratively, but that's not the impression the text gives at face value, unlike parables for example. To me it sounds like a briefing on real historical facts. And it's quite clear that the flood was across the whole surface of the Earth. Noah and family being the survivors of the line of blessing, that afterward replenished the Earth. 


A briefing can't cover all the details, but it nevertheless needs to contain the basic facts. 

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