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Lets look into the reasons as to why George Floyd would have been restrained in the 1 st place.

And if the Police went overboard with subduing him..

And did inexperience play a part in the sad death of George Floyd..

Why these riots and destruction have nothing to do with Georges death, or if this is merely more a causation for them etc..

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/04/869278494/medical-examiners-autopsy-reveals-george-floyd-had-positive-test-for-coronavirus

A full autopsy report on George Floyd, the man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police last month, reveals that he was positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The 20-page report also indicates that Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death, although the drugs are not listed as the cause.

In video taken by bystanders, Floyd, 46, is shown repeatedly pleading that he cannot breathe as he is held down with a knee on his neck by former Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin, with three other officers present. The incident has sparked nationwide — and even worldwide — protests.

Floyd's death has been ruled a homicide.

The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That conclusion, death due to heart failure, differs from the one reached by an independent examiner hired by the Floyd family; that report listed the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

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popoi

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  13 hours ago, indydave said:

It's a horrible example of police negligent homicide. Possibly murder, but to me that overcharges. The guy on his back was as culpable as the guy on his neck, according to the autopsy. I predicted two weeks ago that the reason they had him held down like that was because he was spitting on them and they were fearful for their lives. They had to hold him tight until they could get one of the anti spitting hoods on him. There's no other reason I can think of that they might have held him like that. Normally he would just go into the back of the police car. As it turns out, yesterday we learned he DID test positive for covid-19. I think it is highly likely that he infected some of them already and they COULD be dying. But I think it is also very likely that he could have even TOLD them that while he was spitting on them. If he was not spitting but he was not complying, they still may have been fearful whether they knew or not. If they were indeed fearful for their lives there could be some aspect of self-defense involved. If it were not for the covid-19 background, I would certainly not see any defense but it's possible that is what will be used by their defense attorneys.

Did it occur to you at any point when you were writing this how hard you were working trying to find a reason that it might be excusable to kneel on a man's head until he died over a matter of $20?  What if it the cops involved were just 100% wrong, full stop?

  55 minutes ago, indydave said:

Peaceful protests are protected under our constitution. If the protests were actually peaceful, then nobody would have a problem. But they haven't been, have they?

Some have, some haven't.  Some started out peaceful but violence was instigated.  I've seen enough videos that show police engaging in behavior that makes no sense to me under any other explanation than that they were trying to instigate or escalate a conflict or just lash out at protesters that I can't assign any credibility at all to the notion that police are only responding to violence from protesters.

  55 minutes ago, indydave said:

There is a much higher likelihood that a police officer will be killed by a black with a gun than for an armed police officer to take the life of an unarmed black. Last year there were ONLY nine instances (ONE is certainly too many but if there was widespread anti-black sentiment, you would expect certainly more than nine.)

Mostly false.

  55 minutes ago, indydave said:

But it seems like there is less tendency to loot and riot by whites.

Weird, it's almost like we aren't affected as much by systemic problems and have other means of addressing them before pressure builds up to riot levels.

  55 minutes ago, indydave said:

I don't know of any videos indicating police hitting PEACEFUL protesters unless it was by accident or misidentification when there were others in the crowd who were throwing bottles or bricks. Also police officers sometimes move toward a crowd and push them back and if the crowd is not moving they may hit them, but I have rarely seen that. It is far more likely that you will see attacks from the crowd.

Have you looked for any?  I understand that it is more likely that you specifically will see attacks from the crowd because it seems like you're only consuming media that shows that sort of thing exclusively with the intent of getting people like you riled up about those dang rioters, but from what I can see there are plenty of examples of inexcusable behavior to choose from.

Here's a twitter thread compiling more than 300 such examples.

  55 minutes ago, indydave said:

Another possibility would be to have plain-clothes officers in the crowd who will either quickly handcuff violent offenders or perhaps pepper spray in the eyes someone who is throwing objects.

So on the one hand you're making excuses for why 4 cops couldn't subdue one suspect within almost 9 minutes without killing him, and on the other you're expecting undercovers in the middle of a crowd of (in your mind) hostile and violent protesters to "quickly" handcuff people?  It seems like you have a wildly varying estimation of the ability of the average police officer depending on whether you're trying to excuse violence they have done to people or come up with violence they could do to people.

 

 
12 hours ago, Blitzking said:

To Blitz & Indy:

"1) What do you think about the death of George Floyd"

 

A great unjustice.. He was probably murdered, at best it was malicious manslaughter..   

 

To Jambo and Popoi and Goku

 

1) What do you think about the 10s of millions of young black humans that were murdered in the womb for convenience since 1973?

2) What do you think about the looting, mayhem and murder that have followed George Floyd's death?

3) What do you think about the videos of people smashing into stores taking everything inside then burning them?

Thanks

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/04/869278494/medical-examiners-autopsy-reveals-george-floyd-had-positive-test-for-coronavirus

12 hours ago, siili said:

That might be because Fox does not show any of that footage. But let me help with that. I'll match the three fox clips with three cases

 
 
Martin Gugino, 75 years, life-long civil-rights activist.

 

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2020/06/05/7652338318080195665/640x360_MP4_7652338318080195665.mp4

Police shoot teargas bullets on a car with a pregnant woman inside, a fact clearly communicated to them

LAPD cruiser makes a drive-by on a group of teenagers with rubber bullets, and proceeds to chase them.

If you want more, feel free to ask, or argue that these cases are not examples of excessive force. I can find different ones.

EDIT: Replaced the first video link as it did not work for me when posted

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15 hours ago, KillurBluff said:

Lets look into the reasons as to why George Floyd would have been restrained in the 1 st place.

And if the Police went overboard with subduing him..

Not sure if you missed my comments in "Audacious", but I have a pretty strong feeling that the reason he was put on the ground was because he was spitting and he may have even told them that he had the virus and so they were doing their best to keep him from infecting them. I can think of no other reason why they would take a handcuffed man and put them on the ground and try to hold him still. I suggested this possibility two weeks before it was revealed that he tested positive.

I even emailed Rush Limbaugh to suggest that idea to him about a week ago.

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14 hours ago, KillurBluff said:

 

I feel sorry for her but she sort of comes across as racist. She doesn't seem to be all that concerned that the "brothers" (a put down of whites...imagine if whites had a similar term) were out looting white people but it offends her more that they were trying to loot HER...a black woman. 

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On 6/7/2020 at 3:29 AM, indydave said:

I feel sorry for her but she sort of comes across as racist. She doesn't seem to be all that concerned that the "brothers" (a put down of whites...imagine if whites had a similar term) were out looting white people but it offends her more that they were trying to loot HER...a black woman. 

:oTalk about the WORLD GOING Nuts, check out this 'Dr.'... 

 

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Kind of reminds me when a bunch of right wingers were convinced the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre was all a big hoax to take away everyone's guns. Promoted by the one and only Alex Jones.

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57 minutes ago, Goku said:

Kind of reminds me when a bunch of right wingers were convinced the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre was all a big hoax to take away everyone's guns. Promoted by the one and only Alex Jones.

:think:Could you elaborate a little bit Goku, as i'm actually mentally slipping a bit here in the last couple of months i guess (Seriously Having Problems)...

As in what does Sandy Hook have to do with the Death of George Floyd etc..

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Now we are getting WAY overboard with the following type of deranged mentality...

 https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2020/06/minneapolis-city-council-president-if-you-call-daniel-greenfield/?fbclid=IwAR1_fEHQAw_tusicpKzCt-eGBr5JnCMm-mTgq9gNG2_E_7bmjd-rP3sXMs4#.Xt6M-p25Z

Minneapolis City Council President: If You Call the Cops When Your Garage is Broken Into, You're a White Supremacistbender.png?itok=H_E9xavu

On 6/7/2020 at 3:19 AM, indydave said:

Not sure if you missed my comments in "Audacious", but I have a pretty strong feeling that the reason he was put on the ground was because he was spitting and he may have even told them that he had the virus and so they were doing their best to keep him from infecting them. I can think of no other reason why they would take a handcuffed man and put them on the ground and try to hold him still. I suggested this possibility two weeks before it was revealed that he tested positive.

I even emailed Rush Limbaugh to suggest that idea to him about a week ago.

 

1 hour ago, Goku said:

Kind of reminds me when a bunch of right wingers were convinced the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre was all a big hoax to take away everyone's guns. Promoted by the one and only Alex Jones.

 

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On 6/8/2020 at 8:26 PM, KillurBluff said:

:think:Could you elaborate a little bit Goku, as i'm actually mentally slipping a bit here in the last couple of months i guess (Seriously Having Problems)...

As in what does Sandy Hook have to do with the Death of George Floyd etc..

Here we have a right-winger promoting a conspiracy that George Floyd didn't really die, which must involve a conspiracy of multiple people from multiple professions/backgrounds, all to push for some liberal agenda about holding police accountable.

Similarly, there were right-wingers promoting a conspiracy that those children didn't really die in the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre, again which must involve multiple people from multiple professions/backgrounds, all to push for some liberal agenda about gun control.

I'm just noting that there are striking similarities between the two. In addition, the Sandy Hook conspiracy was so insane even conservatives eventually walked it back, and IIRC Alex Jones apologized for promoting it.

In the case of George Floyd, we essentially have an 8 minute video capturing his death, but cops are always perfect and can do no wrong, so clearly the obvious answer is that it is all staged. Floyd didn't really die, and this is all so the sheep in the black community will rise up and demand criminal justice reform that we don't need and will be harmful for police, and that is why the police on Floyd's neck is in on all this and willing to go to jail.

It is clearly a master class in mental gymnastics on how to avoid any facts or reality that is inconvenient to your political ideology.

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On 6/6/2020 at 1:10 PM, KillurBluff said:

Lets look into the reasons as to why George Floyd would have been restrained in the 1 st place.

 

yes, the police had every right to arrest floyd.

Quote

And if the Police went overboard with subduing him..

okay, the buck stops here.

i've recently found out that chauvin and floyd were more than strangers to one another.

it's apparent to me that chauvin had some sort of personal vendetta against floyd.

chauvin should have dismissed himself IMMEDIATELY for this reason alone and let the other officers deal with floyd.

the onus is entirely on chauvin, NOT on the police department.

Quote

And did inexperience play a part in the sad death of George Floyd.

no, egotism did.

chauvin knew exactly what he was doing, he cannot possibly claim inexperience.

 

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3 minutes ago, what if said:

no, egotism did.

chauvin knew exactly what he was doing, he cannot possibly claim inexperience.

I do think inexperience could have played a role, but not from Chauvin. The other police around him were rookies and he was their supervisor. They may not have had the experience to go to their supervisor and tell him to stand back you're too emotional, which as I understand is perfectly fine for subordinates to do in such a situation.

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1 hour ago, Goku said:

I do think inexperience could have played a role, but not from Chauvin. The other police around him were rookies and he was their supervisor. They may not have had the experience to go to their supervisor and tell him to stand back you're too emotional, which as I understand is perfectly fine for subordinates to do in such a situation.

it doesn't matter, chauvin needs to pay dearly for his idiocy. he knew better than to let his personal vendettas interfere with his duties as a cop.

he abused his position of public trust.

as to the other, this is more a training problem rather than some kind of blame on the rookies.

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21 hours ago, Goku said:

Here we have a right-winger promoting a conspiracy that George Floyd didn't really die, which must involve a conspiracy of multiple people from multiple professions/backgrounds, all to push for some liberal agenda about holding police accountable.

Similarly, there were right-wingers promoting a conspiracy that those children didn't really die in the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre, again which must involve multiple people from multiple professions/backgrounds, all to push for some liberal agenda about gun control.

I'm just noting that there are striking similarities between the two. In addition, the Sandy Hook conspiracy was so insane even conservatives eventually walked it back, and IIRC Alex Jones apologized for promoting it.

In the case of George Floyd, we essentially have an 8 minute video capturing his death, but cops are always perfect and can do no wrong, so clearly the obvious answer is that it is all staged. Floyd didn't really die, and this is all so the sheep in the black community will rise up and demand criminal justice reform that we don't need and will be harmful for police, and that is why the police on Floyd's neck is in on all this and willing to go to jail.

It is clearly a master class in mental gymnastics on how to avoid any facts or reality that is inconvenient to your political ideology.

:consoling:No Goku, i posted that for the very reason you gave.

That this lady is "Perhaps, Off Her Rocker" so-to-speak...

And yes i get the 'Connection Now'.. (Thanks)

I find it hard to believe that she is what she claims, a Republican...

I think she may be an Official 'Plant' by the Demonicacts party lol... (My Personal Conspiracy!!!):orjnfq: LMBO!!!

Everything on 'Wiki' shows she has been a Democrat perhaps, I.D.K. 

The whole WIDE WORLD is going NUTS bro Goku......

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20 hours ago, what if said:

yes, the police had every right to arrest floyd.

okay, the buck stops here.

i've recently found out that chauvin and floyd were more than strangers to one another.

it's apparent to me that chauvin had some sort of personal vendetta against floyd.

chauvin should have dismissed himself IMMEDIATELY for this reason alone and let the other officers deal with floyd.

the onus is entirely on chauvin, NOT on the police department.

no, egotism did.

chauvin knew exactly what he was doing, he cannot possibly claim inexperience.

 

i've recently found out that chauvin and floyd were more than strangers to one another.

it's apparent to me that chauvin had some sort of personal vendetta against floyd.

Could you give some 'Follow Up/Resources' please.. (Thanks)

 

no, egotism did.

chauvin knew exactly what he was doing, he cannot possibly claim inexperience.

Sorry, i should have been 'More Clear' i was meaning the other 2 Officers that had just joined the 'Police Force' a mere week earlier...

Goku

 

  20 hours ago, what if said:

no, egotism did.

chauvin knew exactly what he was doing, he cannot possibly claim inexperience.

I do think inexperience could have played a role, but not from Chauvin. The other police around him were rookies and he was their supervisor. They may not have had the experience to go to their supervisor and tell him to stand back you're too emotional, which as I understand is perfectly fine for subordinates to do in such a situation.

 

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7 minutes ago, KillurBluff said:

i've recently found out that chauvin and floyd were more than strangers to one another.

it's apparent to me that chauvin had some sort of personal vendetta against floyd.

Could you give some 'Follow Up/Resources' please.. (Thanks)

 

no, not right offhand.

i remember reading some news stories on microsoft edge that suggested such a connection but i do not remember the exact details.

Quote

no, egotism did.

chauvin knew exactly what he was doing, he cannot possibly claim inexperience.

Sorry, i should have been 'More Clear' i was meaning the other 2 Officers that had just joined the 'Police Force' a mere week earlier...

this is a symptom of poor training.

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41 minutes ago, what if said:

okay, the buck stops here.

i've recently found out that chauvin and floyd were more than strangers to one another.

That makes a difference doesn't it?   I learned within a couple days of Chauvin killing Floyd that they both worked at the same place.  That's why, in the other discussion, I said the relationship between them needs to be investigated.

I've seen two relevant interviews.   One with the owner of the club where both worked.  She said Chauvin was pretty aggressive in dealing with customers.  The other was with a co-worker who said there was a dispute between Chauvin and Floyd over how Chavin handled matters.

My feeling from that, as well as Chauvin's record, is that Chauvin was one of those cops on a "power trip."

 

20 hours ago, what if said:

chauvin knew exactly what he was doing, he cannot possibly claim inexperience.

No doubt.

 

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20 hours ago, Goku said:

I do think inexperience could have played a role, but not from Chauvin. The other police around him were rookies and he was their supervisor. They may not have had the experience to go to their supervisor and tell him to stand back you're too emotional, which as I understand is perfectly fine for subordinates to do in such a situation.

To a point I agree.  But there are some significant problems with that claim.

For one thing, one of them said they couldn't find a pulse nearly two minutes before medics arrived.

I realize this may be expecting a lot, but some things are what I call "general knowledge" that we are all expected to have.  I expect ....

  • ANYONE would know that a person with no pulse isn't a threat.  This isn't a matter of experience.
  • ANYONE would know that a person with no pulse is in need of IMMEDIATE medical attention to prevent DEATH.  This isn't a matter of experience.
  • ANYONE with CPR training (which ALL police have) would know that when someone has no pulse, one of the FIRST things to do is begin CPR.  This isn't a matter of experience.

I realize two of the others had essentially no experience.  IIRC, one was in his second day on patrol and the other was on his fourth day.  That does not mean they should ignore all their experience in life before becoming police officers and stand by .... no ASSIST .... in the killing of a prisoner.

They must also be held responsible and accountable in Floyd's death.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, piasan said:

That makes a difference doesn't it?

 

sure it does, in this particular case.

OTOH, you cannot extrapolate this to all police departments.

plus, it's obvious from the known circumstances that there is more at work here than a "simple arrest".

these circumstances could easily have been manipulated well before the actual altercation.

in addition, it's entirely conceivable that both chauvin and floyd were victims of something much larger.

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2 hours ago, piasan said:

To a point I agree.  But there are some significant problems with that claim.

For one thing, one of them said they couldn't find a pulse nearly two minutes before medics arrived.

I realize this may be expecting a lot, but some things are what I call "general knowledge" that we are all expected to have.  I expect ....

  • ANYONE would know that a person with no pulse isn't a threat.  This isn't a matter of experience.
  • ANYONE would know that a person with no pulse is in need of IMMEDIATE medical attention to prevent DEATH.  This isn't a matter of experience.
  • ANYONE with CPR training (which ALL police have) would know that when someone has no pulse, one of the FIRST things to do is begin CPR.  This isn't a matter of experience.

I realize two of the others had essentially no experience.  IIRC, one was in his second day on patrol and the other was on his fourth day.  That does not mean they should ignore all their experience in life before becoming police officers and stand by .... no ASSIST .... in the killing of a prisoner.

They must also be held responsible and accountable in Floyd's death.

this is one of the reasons i say there HAS to be more to this story than what we've been told.

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Just goes to show exactly how 'This' is getting FAR TOO CARRIED AWAY!!

These are absolute MORONS and detestable people, especially the one holding the camera and spouting curses and profanities the entire time!! 

On 6/12/2020 at 4:32 PM, Goku said:

I do think inexperience could have played a role, but not from Chauvin. The other police around him were rookies and he was their supervisor. They may not have had the experience to go to their supervisor and tell him to stand back you're too emotional, which as I understand is perfectly fine for subordinates to do in such a situation.

 

On 6/12/2020 at 5:42 PM, what if said:

it doesn't matter, chauvin needs to pay dearly for his idiocy. he knew better than to let his personal vendettas interfere with his duties as a cop.

he abused his position of public trust.

as to the other, this is more a training problem rather than some kind of blame on the rookies.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 1:02 PM, piasan said:

That makes a difference doesn't it?   I learned within a couple days of Chauvin killing Floyd that they both worked at the same place.  That's why, in the other discussion, I said the relationship between them needs to be investigated.

I've seen two relevant interviews.   One with the owner of the club where both worked.  She said Chauvin was pretty aggressive in dealing with customers.  The other was with a co-worker who said there was a dispute between Chauvin and Floyd over how Chavin handled matters.

My feeling from that, as well as Chauvin's record, is that Chauvin was one of those cops on a "power trip."

 

No doubt.

 

 

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1 hour ago, KillurBluff said:

Just goes to show exactly how 'This' is getting FAR TOO CARRIED AWAY!!

These are absolute MORONS and detestable people, especially the one holding the camera and spouting curses and profanities the entire time!!

Right.  Those curses and profanities are soooooooooo horrible.   Much worse than this:

 

It's worth note here they had the car and the driver's license of Rayshrad Brooks, the man they shot in the back.

It's those DEMONSTRATORS who are the problem.  We need to put a stop to those demonstrations.

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7 minutes ago, piasan said:

Right.  Those curses and profanities are soooooooooo horrible.   Much worse than this:

 

It's worth note here they had the car and the driver's license of Rashad Brooks, the man they shot in the back.

It's those DEMONSTRATORS who are the problem.  We need to put a stop to those demonstrations.

6 minutes ago, piasan said:
 

It's worth note here they had the car and the driver's license of Rashad Brooks, the man they shot in the back.

It's those DEMONSTRATORS who are the problem.  We need to put a stop to those demonstrations.

okay, 2 things.

1. can people please start posting links instead of embeded video. it's really hard to delete the video from quoted posts.

2. the officer shot when the perp turned and pointed a weapon.

this is even more clearcut than the floyd case.

but to listen to you , popoi, and others like you, the cops are supposed to say something like, whoa, wait a minute johnny don't shoot me.

you people are beyond hilarious.

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3 hours ago, piasan said:

Right.  Those curses and profanities are soooooooooo horrible.   Much worse than this:

 

It's worth note here they had the car and the driver's license of Rayshrad Brooks, the man they shot in the back.

It's those DEMONSTRATORS who are the problem.  We need to put a stop to those demonstrations.

:acigar::acigar::acigar::acigar::acigar:Agreed...

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5 hours ago, what if said:

okay, 2 things.

1. can people please start posting links instead of embeded video. it's really hard to delete the video from quoted posts.

Really?   I just place the cursor right after the video and "backspace."   Same thing for cleaning up the "spooge" (content not relevant to my remarks) except that I highlight spooge and delete.  (That works on videos too, BTW.) 

When I copy a post with a video, sometimes it will come up with a choice to paste the URL instead of the video.  If I see the option to do that, I use it .... it saves a lot of screen space for a video that has already been posted.   If the system doesn't give you the option, I can right click on the video; select "copy URL"; delete the video as above; and paste the URL.  The system will post the video and give you the URL option to post as a link;  take the option.

5 hours ago, what if said:

2. the officer shot when the perp turned and pointed a weapon.

The weapon was a taser Brooks had taken from a cop in the struggle.

5 hours ago, what if said:

this is even more clearcut than the floyd case.

but to listen to you , popoi, and others like you, the cops are supposed to say something like, whoa, wait a minute johnny don't shoot me.

The cops are supposed to use force proportional to the threat. They had already checked Brooks for weapons and knew he had no lethal weapon.  I saw no immediate threat that justified the cop shooting a fleeing DUI suspect in the back.

In this case, they already had his driver's license and his car.  There was no immediate threat of harm to anyone and the "perp" was going to be really easy to find.

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