this new obsession with the AI

[popoi 1,081]

2 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

Popoi, Whatif reported your post. He feels you're attacking the source (A.I.) so as to overlook the corroborative sources

An LLM shouldn't be regarded as a source.  At best, it can point to things that are actual sources and provide a summary.  I would have been happy to address those actual sources if anyone would have actually posted any, but the last few posts in that thread were only appealing to the reported existence of those sources, and nobody seemed interested in addressing any of the contradictory sources I posted.

2 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

, and have performed a mischief by attempting to carry it on here so as to get the last word. Here is his quote;

Unsurprisingly, it's a study I was already aware of which has a bunch of problems and also doesn't actually measure the thing we were talking about, which was suicidality.  This is why it's important to post sources for evaluation and discussion.

2 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

We did predict you would find it impossible to not have the last word. 

I don't want the last word, I want people to respond substantively to the arguments I make and the questions I ask.  On top of all the other problems, all this LLM use is making everyone really boring.

2 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

Stop arguing generalisations about A.I. so as to pretend a specific session is somehow wrong even if it can provide sources.

I provided plenty of support for my argument against the specific session where possible, but people weren't actually addressing those arguments, and at the end weren't even posting the information necessary to evaluate specific sessions.  I can't do anything with "I asked GPT and it agreed with me and said it could provide sources" other than pointing out why that doesn't mean much due to the design of LLMs.  Having a more substantive discussion is a two way street.  

[mike the wiz 1,210]

47 minutes ago, popoi said:

I provided plenty of support for my argument against the specific session where possible, but people weren't actually addressing those arguments, and at the end weren't even posting the information necessary to evaluate specific sessions.  I can't do anything with "I asked GPT and it agreed with me and said it could provide sources" other than pointing out why that doesn't mean much due to the design of LLMs.  Having a more substantive discussion is a two way street.  

That's how you feel, and I have said how Whatif feels, since I haven't followed the debate closely it's probably best to now discuss these things with him.

I only use A.I. as an investigative tool. My analogy is that of an F1 car, in the hands of the right person it will not be an unwieldy nightmare. 

Since this is now probably the trans debate, what is your take away then from the facts, perhaps you can summarise that for Whatif?

 

[what if 1,671]

i refuse to discuss ANYTHING with a moron that doesn't want to look at the evidence.

"yeah but i got the proof", right? 

wrong. 100% wrong homeboy.

i would have "the proof" too if i relied on subjective opinion and shifting goalposts.

it's the exact same method used by evolutionists for the past 150 years.

honestly? you and those like you DESERVE PRISON TIME for arguing this agenda for children.

probably the greatest medical travesty since the dawn of medical history.

BEWARE. this issue is NOT as medically settled as popoi suggests. it's IMPERATIVE to get your mental issues in hand BEFORE you even THINK about this "transgender" nonsense. i'm not like popoi. i WILL NOT send you down a road of regrets over unsettled science. 

but, if you (as an adult) wanna go then go for it but don't blame me because you aren't really happy afterwards.

 

YWNBAF, get over it and STOP demanding rights to which YOU ARE NOT entitled.

i ain't man enough to win a gold medal, i gotta steal it from a female . . . LOSER.

[popoi 1,081]

22 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

Since this is now probably the trans debate, what is your take away then from the facts, perhaps you can summarise that for Whatif?

Many studies show that gender-affirming care up to and including surgical and hormonal interventions is effective at treating gender dysphoria in many people, and it is endorsed by a large number of medical organizations for that reason.  Evidence for the alleged downsides like regret has failed to materialize, and the previous review I posted as well as others show that regret is very low, both in an absolute sense (.3-3.8% in the first and <1% in the second), and relative to other surgeries and life decisions.  

Most of the evidence that what if has been appealing to from Sweden makes the claim that the existing studies are inconclusive, but that seems to be mostly because they're just deeming most of the studies "low quality" due to things like lacking a randomized controlled trial, without really explaining how we're supposed to do such a trial ethically or practically, and ignoring that "only a minority of outcomes for health care interventions are supported by high-quality evidence".  Insisting that we can't make any conclusion from "low-quality" evidence is holding gender-affirming care to an unreasonably high standard, I think most likely for political reasons.

[popoi 1,081]

22 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

I only use A.I. as an investigative tool. My analogy is that of an F1 car, in the hands of the right person it will not be an unwieldy nightmare. 

In general there are pretty obvious signs that an F1 car is being driven well or poorly.  The problem here is that we have a tool that's weighted toward responding positively enough that it will confirm obviously wrong answers, and it doesn't seem like people are doing the work necessary to guard against that.  Appealing to the idea that someone could use the tools doesn't seem to address that, and it seems like exactly the same kind of generalization you got on me about, just in the opposite direction.

[what if 1,671]

9 minutes ago, popoi said:

. . . I think most likely for political reasons.

and that right there is your frikken problem popoi,.

you and others can believe whatever you want. you WILL NOT see me agreeing with current transgender agenda. there has been too much data against this "gender affirming agenda". bottom line and the last word from me about it. i stand by EVERYTHING i've said in this thread and elsewhere about this issue.

 

YWNBAF, get over it and STOP demanding rights to which you ARE NOT entitled to.

i ain't man enough to win a gold medal, i gotta steal it from a female . . . LOSER.

[mike the wiz 1,210]

5 hours ago, popoi said:

In general there are pretty obvious signs that an F1 car is being driven well or poorly.  The problem here is that we have a tool that's weighted toward responding positively enough that it will confirm obviously wrong answers, and it doesn't seem like people are doing the work necessary to guard against that.  Appealing to the idea that someone could use the tools doesn't seem to address that, and it seems like exactly the same kind of generalization you got on me about, just in the opposite direction.

Then let's test one of the typical types of questions I ask it daily, by seeing if it can spot affirmation of the consequent, as you seem to be implying it is impossible to use the A.I. tool validly, but this session can be confirmed by any source to be a correct use of it;

Quote

what is the error in this argument; if it rains you get wet, my friend is wet therefore it's raining.

 

 

The error in this argument is a formal logical fallacy called affirming the consequent. [1]

 

Why the Logic Fails

• The Rule: If it rains (A), then you get wet (B).
• The Error: Your friend is wet (B), so you assume it must be raining (A).
• The Flaw: Being wet (B) can happen for many other reasons besides rain. [1, 2, 3, 4]

 

Alternative Explanations

Your friend could be wet because they:

• Jumped in a swimming pool.
• Got sprayed by a garden sprinkler.
• Spilled a drink on themselves.
• Were sweating after a run.

Because there are multiple ways to get wet, seeing someone who is wet does not automatically prove that it rained.

As for your accusation, I think it is tu-quoque if I don't actually argue that, "therefore this general trend makes A.I. correct mostly or all the time." FROM, "a tool can be used correctly by someone adept" such as with my analogy.

I didn't argue that, it was a tu-quoque strawman, so let's see if it spots either of those fallacies;

Quote

so what is the fallacy? I accused someone of generalising by saying that they were arguing that A.I. as a whole shouldn't be deemed valid at all because it suffers imperfections. I then said that an f1 car may only seem unwieldy if it is not driven by an expert race driver but not by a driver. the person then said I was also generalising but I didn't say that A.I, was therefore generally accurate.

 

 

The person you were debating committed a fallacy called a strawman argument (or a refutation by mischaracterisation).

By claiming you were "also generalising," they distorted your position to make it easier to attack, rather than addressing your actual point. [1, 2, 3]

 

Why Their Accusation Fails

• Your Analogy: You used the F1 car to show that utility depends on the user's skill. An expert can make a complex tool work, while a novice might fail.
• Their Misinterpretation: They claimed you were generalising AI's accuracy, assuming you meant "AI works perfectly for everyone everywhere." [1]
• The Reality: You were making a specific conditional argument, not a sweeping generalisation. You explicitly stated success depends on expertise, which is the exact opposite of a blanket general claim.

 

Key Fallacies at Play

• Strawman Fallacy: They attacked a fake, exaggerated version of your argument (that you think AI is generally accurate) instead of your real argument (that AI efficiency depends on the user). [1]
• Defensive Projection (Tu Quoque): Because you correctly called out their faulty generalisation, they tried to flip the accusation back onto you ("No, you are generalising!") to neutralise your point.

Your F1 analogy was perfectly valid for demonstrating that a tool's flaws often reflect the user's lack of skill rather than the tool's inherent lack of utility.

In this thread it was very clear to non-dense people that when I told you to carry on with Whatif I was walking away. I could have addressed your points but didn't. I even shown you courtesy by asking for your summary and thereby treating your post as having importance. But you INSIST on shooting yourself in the foot when I was quite willing to just let go. What an oddly pugnacious attitude.

I am sure in your mind, reality 100% agrees with all of your views and you are a sort of god that is never incorrect.............in your mind. But as you can see, reality implies something rather different.

That lack of self-awareness is something very common in many atheists I come across. You have to eventually learn that you guys just aren't as smart as you think you are.

ALL of my A.I. sessions have been conducted with probity, and with a wealth of knowledge about critical thinking. That you think nobody could possibly know better than you at any time, and especially a creationist, is your own delusion.

And now really........it is goodbye. I insist.

[mike the wiz 1,210]

Actually Popoi, I think the forum has finally had enough of your sophistry. I am afraid it is goodbye. You can keep your reading priveliges as a poster. You may take this personally but I do feel you have become someone that trolls but subtly, so that you can carry on doing it. Well, it can't go on forever, perhaps you will find people on utube or other sites that can talk to you about these matters but we have had enough of your type of rhetoric at this stage.

Transfaddists being happy to be transfaddists is the same as an anorexic approving of anorexia or a person with OCD approving of OCD rituals. It proves one thing; that a neurotic will confirm their neurosis. It is a lame red-herring predicated on a strawman we do not argue, where you pretend our argument is that because they are not happy trans-mutilation is wrong. I suspect most of them are just doing it out of sexual desire and the true number of boy disphorphics is a small percentage, and who is to say I am wrong since motives are invisible.

Not in the least, it is wrong because God did not design humans to mutilate their biology and it is an abomination to do it to children like Whatif said. That is not the answer, and anyone with half a brain can see it is not healthy. Just choosing the stats that suit you is a texas sharpshooter fallacy to my mind.

[what if 1,671]

27 minutes ago, mike the wiz said:

Transfaddists being happy to be transfaddists is the same as an anorexic approving of anorexia or a person with OCD approving of OCD rituals. It proves one thing; that a neurotic will confirm their neurosis.

added to that, does a doctor actually condone such a thing. does a doctor look at a 6 foot 100 pounder and say "you look great !"? no, a doctor is going to tell you "you need to gain weight". you know, the exact opposite of what the anorexic wants. this transidiocy is sowing the seeds to put a stop to even THAT.

there is a reason the transgender ideologues wanted to ban "when harry became sally". and like the books i've already mentioned, no one has zoomed in here and explained how they got it wrong.

also, there's a significant discrepancy between mab and fab detransitioners i haven't been able to reconcile, and i highly suspect it has something to do with motives. 

[mike the wiz 1,210]

18 hours ago, what if said:

and like the books i've already mentioned, no one has zoomed in here and explained how they got it wrong.

That's because ideology now takes precedent over facts and science. Ironic really, atheists use science to appeal with on evolution then reject it for some political ideology.

Have you ever noticed atheists align with ANYTHING that goes against the bible in any way. They are the first in line for gay marriage, they are the first in line for abortion, they are the first in line for trans, they are the first in line for arse-kissing muslims.

But they wouldn't piss on a Christian if they were on fire. And if you go into a lion's den like evcforum all you get is 100% personal attacks.

I mean can you get any more transparent? And they think this shit is smart? 

Which in a way is a compliment because they are treating the bible as true by their rejection of it, as we are by our acceptance of it.

It's so lame and so transparent, but they don't have the self-awareness to see how predictable their behaviour is. They also have no moral foundation to justify any of these arguments if they are telling us we are accidentally evolved slime. To be consistent with their own views all I have to say is, "I disagree because that won't pass my genes on effectively so you can call me a phobe, bigot, hater, all you want, that just means you are those things for fighting against evolution."

You see such terms under materialism, and all of the accusations against those with faith in the Lord, may as well be gibberish if we are all just accidentally evolved molecules. When they say "phobic" it may as well be the word, "blobic", and when they say "racist" it may as well be the word, "radish", because all these things would mean in terms of materialism, is sounds coming out of the mouth of just another mad animal that attributed fictional meaning to those sounds. It is just as valid under this atheist view, to change the meaning of those words. In fact they have changed the meaning of them, because what used to be considered NOT racist in decades past, probably now is, proving this is all relative MANURE that people just invent. "Phobic" now means "holy", from this moment on, because I say so. And how am I wrong in a materialist world? If enough people agree then we neurotically agree that is now what it means.

So their whole self-righteous position is predicated on HORSE DUNG, because they saw off the branch they are sitting on by saying there is no moral objective God. There is, otherwise the "morality" they invent and the political causes they fight for, are just the behaviours of mad ants. It is logically consistent to therefore say; "you think me phobic? Who gives a bull dick, there is no such thing as objective meaning, that just means something to a small percentage of one species of mad.

You may as well ask me to care what beavers think about the ingress of humanity into their territory." why is that any less valid? I may as well vote for beavers in the next election if God doesn't exist. why is that less meaningful than the trans debate? What, because you DECIDED the trans debate had importance? What is importance? It doesn't exist remember!

why is the death of evolved beavers less important than men chopping their dicks off?

[what if 1,671]

thanks to sherman i've ran across an interesting web page, a VERY interesting web page.

https://naprotechnology.com/

check this out:

One of Dr. Hilgers’ pivotal discoveries is the standardized observation of menstrual and fertility cycles. Women chart with the Creighton Model FertilityCare System for gynecologic health maintenance, and couples use it to achieve or avoid pregnancy. Trained physicians can read a woman’s CrMS chart universally — this is the key to unraveling the mysteries of the menstrual and fertility cycle.

-ibid

you'll notice the article uses "woman" and "women" synonymous with FEMALES. it's IMPOSSIBLE for a "transgender woman (mab)" to get pregnant.

maybe the left needs to murder a few more kirks and others and dox more doctors. kirk wasn't "spreading hate", he was simply voicing the truth about the matter. a truth somebody doesn't want you to know.

 

YWNBAF, get over it.

 

something else i want to mention is i asked my doctor the following question "if a transgender came to you for diagnosis and/ or treatment, how would you treat that person, by what they claim to be or by their biological make up"? my doctor said "interesting question". surely any doctor would know to treat the person by their biology, not by any subjective "feeling" they might have.

i'm almost positive the above website will get hate mail, how naprotechnology.com is a pack of transphobic haters.

 

[mike the wiz 1,210]

1 hour ago, what if said:

kirk wasn't "spreading hate", he was simply voicing the truth about the matter

People "hate" because they don't favour beavers over human dick-chopping.

They should care more about beavers. They hate beavers. Beavers have feelings too, but people are encroaching upon them. This is a phobic tendency. How will beavers survive if humans capture them for fur and meat?

 

Seriously though, if some animal is endangered or getting killed, doesn't it kind of sum up the modern oddity that is the human race, and this whole entitlement-to-rights generation, that chopping a penis off has become more important to people than many causes that should be more important.

The following formula is at play;

Emotionalism + telepathy + outrage = delusional lunatic. (oh and don't forget; ZERO critical analysis)

Exhibit A; (a leftist lunatic employing that very formula)

 

This is not normal behaviour. This is how the world is getting worse.

[what if 1,671]

let's get a minor point cleared up here. there are indeed "illegal immigrants" that are on the "right side" of things. this is EXACTLY why the patriot act was enacted in the united states, to track, capture, and eliminate these international trouble makers. thanks to democrats, this piece of legislation has been thoroughly gutted. it's also the reason behind the mess we have now, democrats doing everything they can to stop ice agents from doing their jobs. this of course floods our courts which in turn increases the amount of time an illegal is held in detention. yes, yes, yes, we all know they din do nuffin.

the female in pink completely misses the point. it isn't because they are illegal immigrants, it's because they shouldn't be here in the first place. here in america illegal immigration used to be felony offense, a major crime in itself. not anymore, thanks to the squatters that called itself the biden administration, the very same administration that held negotiations with the goons that burned and looted our cities, BLM.

sometimes i wished i lived in japan but i'm not sure i would like it very much. i would essentially be considered like something offensive sort of like carrying a dildo around in church. few realize just how racist the japanese actually are. they are so racist they don't even like those that look asian like the chinese and koreans. that's one of the reasons their crime rate is so low, lack of immigration.

[mike the wiz 1,210]

Oh and it isn't just the lady in pink Whatif, the anti ice-lunatics also had a go at Ben Leo. (British presenter I listen to occasionally at night as he covers the USA coverage)

He had to contend with two people that were indulging my formula;

Emotionalism + telepathy + outrage = delusional lunatic.

(I have to admit, our lad Ben has balls, I don't think his pulse even was raised by an extra beat per minute. )

 

 

[what if 1,671]

1 hour ago, mike the wiz said:

Oh and it isn't just the lady in pink Whatif, the anti ice-lunatics . . .

i don't even like discussing it because it makes me rip snort too much. it positively makes me physically ill.

the u.s. government knew who the rat pack was/ is back in 2001.

i honestly dread the dems regaining control of the white house.

NWO? it's probably closer than any of us realize

i don't know about europe but america has become decidedly fractured over the course of the last 20 years.

i also think it could be an honest effort to fix a problem that has been propagandized. such is the state of politics. i once said "politics is what nightmares are made of" and "politics causes brain rot".

 

[what if 1,671]

19 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

 

that protester said "who started it". my response would have been: "it sounds like you want to start a conflict, NOT to resolve anything". IOW it's a way to divide people, a way to keep them from forming a unified front.

using that protesters rhetoric we can assume they are looking to "conquer" great britain which by all rights would give YOU every reason for wanting them out of there. ah yes, the mind of a small man indeed. yeah, you're some big black bag of (word filtered). 

BTW, that protester probably came from haiti if the truth was known. haitians are known for its violence.

i don't feel sorry at all for ANYONE in that new jersey jail. no, jails aren't pretty nor should they be. as a matter of fact, the fear of going to jail is probably the number one reason most people don't commit crimes, and these nutsack lefties wants to GET RID OF THEM.

[mike the wiz 1,210]

1 hour ago, what if said:

using that protesters rhetoric we can assume they are looking to "conquer" great britain which by all rights would give YOU every reason for wanting them out of there. ah yes, the mind of a small man indeed. yeah, you're some big black bag of (word filtered). 

For me the colour issue is incidental though. The truth is in the UK the migrants are more likely to rape in terms of a statistic or something of that nature (I can't remember the actual specifics on how to state that stat, you would have to listen to the video again I haven't followed it that closely), I haven't looked into their colour nor will I because it isn't about that. 

But yes, it's absolutely fine and dandy I agree with you that there is every reason to want them because of my analogy;

If you invited ten people to stay at your house with your family staying there also and you knew one was evil but were not told which one, would you invite them all for the sake of the nine good people or would you reject all ten because of the one bad apple?

That is true morality, to reject all, it is NOT racism, and has nothing to do with it. That the left are too stupid to see it is incidental in regards to migrant policies, is expected. That they can't see that a way of behaving is being imported into the UK because of being blinded by the fear of the racism charge, is also clear to see but nobody would bank of them becoming more and more unhinged the more and more the facts don't support their views. That is worrying, because I start to wonder about demonic influence given the levels of nuttiness that are arising within people.

[what if 1,671]

2 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

That is true morality, to reject all, it is NOT racism, and has nothing to do with it. That the left are too stupid to see it is incidental in regards to migrant policies, is expected. That they can't see that a way of behaving is being imported into the UK because of being blinded by the fear of the racism charge, . . .

exactly. that was the entire intent of that black man, to intimidate you (ben) and to keep others from saying anything. his rhetoric does nothing other than to reinforce bens argument and he doesn't even realize it. especially when it comes to centuries old history. yes, britain has done some horrific things in its quest to secure resources but i would like to think britain today is tad more enlightened than their 400 year old grand daddies. moreover, this isn't "just a british issue" it applies to the u.s. as well.

unfortunately you can't discuss the issue without appearing racist or bigoted and it's this right here is what the fuel is. any attempts to solve it provides the needed fuel that drives it. 

[mike the wiz 1,210]

2 hours ago, what if said:

yes, britain has done some horrific things in its quest to secure resources but i would like to think britain today is tad more enlightened than their 400 year old grand daddies

Yes it was an absurd tu-quoque and crude genetic fallacy combined with a fallacy of irrelevance. A 3in1 "king of the dunces" fallacy as I call it when you get 3in1.

Fact is what happened hundreds of years ago is irrelevant to today. Sure, in the past Britain done bad things, and good, but how will that have anything to do with crime stats today?

Take your pick, you pay reparations for bad things done before you were born, or take a reward for the good things done, again, before you existed.

It's a depiction of where humanity stands in being in both a post-Christian and post-reason age. It is now the age of ideology, which is inevitable when people choose their own subjective desires, beliefs and opinions as their standard and basis of moral principles. You have a mixing pot of all types of motives that hide behind all of the guilt-tripping, shaming and virtue signalling.

 

[what if 1,671]

5 hours ago, mike the wiz said:

Yes it was an absurd tu-quoque and crude genetic fallacy combined with a fallacy of irrelevance. A 3in1 "king of the dunces" fallacy as I call it when you get 3in1.

Fact is what happened hundreds of years ago is irrelevant to today. Sure, in the past Britain done bad things, and good, but how will that have anything to do with crime stats today?

Take your pick, you pay reparations for bad things done before you were born, or take a reward for the good things done, again, before you existed.

It's a depiction of where humanity stands in being in both a post-Christian and post-reason age. It is now the age of ideology, which is inevitable when people choose their own subjective desires, beliefs and opinions as their standard and basis of moral principles. You have a mixing pot of all types of motives that hide behind all of the guilt-tripping, shaming and virtue signalling.

 

regardless of all of that, that black man demonstrated why all of these illegals are being rounded up and deported. i WOULD NOT want to live in a community full of his kind. what did DHS call them again? depraved monsters? now i get to hear all about how "bigoted" and "racist" i am.

like i said earlier, some do indeed have a "good heart" but the fact still remains, they are here illegally and they know it and they need to be deported.

[what if 1,671]

the video title reads: China's New Female Robot Just Hit The Market And It Is 92% Human.

it doesn't even merit 1%. it's exactly ZERO percent human. like i mentioned in an earlier post, ai is going to give robotics astounding abilities and it's going to be next to impossible to keep a firm grasp on what we are dealing with, which is little more that a box of rocks with a bit of programming.

i promise you, this robot china has created CANNOT navigate its environment with intent. so much for being "human", aye? if you told that bot "help me put this couch in the back of my truck" it would simply just stand there like the idiot it is.

24 minute video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzVvn8wxj2Y

P.S. one of the comments said this: "that video could be condensed to 2 minutes."

 

[mike the wiz 1,210]

18 hours ago, what if said:

China's New Female Robot Just Hit The Market And It Is 92% Human.

Well if people can believe humans are 98% chimp, why wouldn't they also believe a robot is 92% human?

The error with such arguments is that they make it seem like something holistic can be determined by percentages in terms of similarity.

To highlight how silly such quantitative arguments are, you just have to ask this question; "what percentage of sky is a football?"

It's a compositional error.

The A.I. gave me this challenge a while back when I was asking it to give me some challenging intellectual puzzles, with the example of a "pile of sand". It was asking, "at what stage does it become a pile, when does it switch from a few grains to a pile as it builds?"

I got the right answer on that one; it's to mistake the individual or the parts level as significant when it is a holistic matter.

Quote

"Holistic" means looking at the big picture. It describes an approach that focuses on the entire system or the complete person, rather than breaking things down into individual, isolated parts. [1, 2]

You can't say "this is 92% human" because there is a hidden premise that being a human is a matter of gradations as though things can "come close". In fact the law of the excluded middle applies; you are either human or you are not.

Let's see if the A.I. thinks my reasoning reasonable; (this is one thing it can do well as it tends to compile a list of the salient errors nicely)

Quote

• Yes, your reasoning is highly reasonable and aligns with established concepts in philosophy, biology, and systems theory. You have correctly identified a structural flaw in how people conceptualize complex, emergent systems
•  
•  
• Genetic Misinterpretation: When people say a chimpanzee is "98% human," they actually mean we share roughly 98% of our DNA coding sequences. [1]
• The Error: This reduces the holistic organism to a mere parts list.
• The Reality: How those genes are expressed, regulated, and organized creates a vast, non-linear chasm between species. A cake is not "98% cookies" just because they share flour, sugar, and butter.

 

3. Category Mistake (Quantitative vs. Qualitative)

• The Error: Applying numerical gradations to a qualitative state.
• The Reality: "Human" is an ontological category, not a metric. In the case of an AI robot, claiming it is "98% human" confuses simulation with constitution. Mimicking 98% of human behaviors does not make the underlying entity 98% human; it remains 100% synthetic machine. [1]

 

Summary of the Silent Premises

Your analysis correctly flags two faulty assumptions:

• Quantitative Assumption: The belief that humanity is a substance that can be accumulated incrementally.
• Reductionist Assumption: The belief that breaking a system down into its components captures the essence of the whole

 

[Jambobskiwobski 356]

18 hours ago, what if said:

the video title reads: China's New Female Robot Just Hit The Market And It Is 92% Human.

That's what the video title says but the creators don't claim that. They said its walking posture achieves a 92% human-like accuracy rate.

It's almost as if you shouldn't believe everything that's on YouTube / X / Tiktok etc...

[mike the wiz 1,210]

1 hour ago, Jambobskiwobski said:

That's what the video title says but the creators don't claim that. They said its walking posture achieves a 92% human-like accuracy rate.

It's almost as if you shouldn't believe everything that's on YouTube / X / Tiktok etc...

You're right to fact check of course. Hope my post didn't give the impression I wasn't, I just can't resist assessing peoples' propensity to believe such things, whoever believes/asserts such factoids or doesn't, so I am not accusing anyone in particular, I just happen to know people tend to believe a lot of claims like that.

I should have made that clearer.

[mike the wiz 1,210]

Interestingly Jambob, your avatar "believe in one less God than you do", also seems to make a similar error if you think about it, because if the one less is the true God then it becomes rather a problem wouldn't you say? (though this is only an observation, not a personal comment)

After all believing in the one that counts is paramount.

Allow me to waffle/rant; Because I am not causing an argument, I am just trying to get people to apply critical thinking. Is it really quantitative? 

You could argue such framing is misleading even if unintentionally so, if the true matter is that the universe and maths, and all the design in life is what requires God, one God, to exist.

Even if we do this from the standpoint of pure neutral logic and don't speak about faith or the bible, I am sure you can see, there wouldn't really be a need for many God if this universe is a creation, and even if I am overly courteous by saying, "if" with respect to your own position even though I am of assured with great irkblastings that the Lord is true, be that as it may I am sure you can see that the invention of a thing only requires the one.

From there through propositional implications of logic we can then carry on with our, "if, then" operators thus;

"if" this is indeed requiring a creator, "then" the matter of many false ones can become the muddying of mikey's waters, and a red-herring to the issue of requirement.

By analogy I offer up my non-prosaic renderings in my usual unorthodox style for the delight of your reading, ho ho;

Imagine we have a murder, we know it is reasonably committed by one person. Jack the ripper. However there are many suspects. But then does the focus on the suspects remove the fact there was a murder? No indeed, and if we focus not upon the evidence we can get caught up in many triflings with our whodunnit. There are also many theories that appear equal to begin with, many suspects whereby you may reasonably say to begin with, "this is absurd, each case is akin to a conspiracy type level of theorising at best, dependent upon circumstantial evidence". However, this yet again does not tell us there was no murder. If we then from this take each case on it's merit some will be better than others.

So here is my challenge for today, and I challenge myself with it also, since I have never asked A.I. about it and here is what I shall put to the A.I.;

"If we were to focus upon the following categories and compare them to myths and legends and religions contemporaneously with the bible, would any stand out or are they all equal? The categories are; the criterion of embarassment, undesigned scripture concordance, manuscript authority, archaeological evidence, use of language where the author struggles to define the supernatural through a lack of a frame of reference, knowledge that precedes science."

SInce I am asking this in real time, here is it's answer. (the session is new, the A.i. knows nothing about me.)

(you are not obliged to respond to my post Jambob, it's just for reading in the hope you are reasonable.) bye for now.

Quote

When evaluated using these specific criteria, the Bible does stand out uniquely from contemporary myths, legends, and regional religions. While all ancient religions utilize narrative, ritual, and moral frameworks, contemporary mythological texts do not ground their theology in historical, testable, or textually complex parameters in the same manner. [1]

An evaluation of how each category applies across the contemporaneous landscape illustrates why they do not remain equal.

 

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1. The Criterion of Embarrassment

The Bible stands out sharply in this category. Contemporary pagan myths (such as the Babylonian Enuma Elish or Egyptian lore) generally served to elevate, deify, and validate their rulers and national heroes. [1, 2, 3]

By contrast, the biblical narrative routinely highlights the failures of its primary figures:

• The Old Testament: Israel’s foundation heroes are deeply flawed. Abraham acts like a coward and lies about his wife, Moses is banned from the Promised Land for disobedience, and King David commits adultery and murder.
• The New Testament: The Gospels show the chosen disciples lacking faith, arguing over personal status, and abandoning Jesus during his arrest. Furthermore, the first witnesses to the resurrection were women—a detail that ancient writers would not fabricate due to the low legal standing of women's testimony in first-century culture.

 

2. Undesigned Scripture Concordance

An "undesigned coincidence" occurs when two or more independent accounts interlock perfectly to explain a detail, without any hint of collusion or deliberate copying. This phenomenon is a hallmark of historical reporting rather than myth.

• The Bible: It contains dozens of these subtle intersections. For example, in Matthew 14:1, King Herod speaks specifically to his servants about Jesus. We only find out why Herod would discuss theology with household servants in Luke 8:3, which casually mentions that Chuza, Herod’s household manager, had a wife named Joanna who was a disciple of Jesus.
• Contemporary Myths: Ancient epic poems or pagan religious texts lack this interlocking fabric of casual, real-world reporting. They are generally single-authored narratives or heavily harmonised monolithic epics with no room for independent, organic historical intersections.

 

3. Manuscript Authority

The Bible possesses a massive, structurally unique level of manuscript evidence that surpasses all contemporaneous literature.

• The New Testament: Survives in over 5,800 Greek manuscripts, and more than 20,000 translations in other languages. Many fragments date to within decades of their original composition.
• The Old Testament: The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls demonstrated that Jewish scribes preserved text with an astonishing, near-exact accuracy over a span of a thousand years.
• Contemporary Literature: By comparison, Homer’s Iliad is considered well-attested with fewer than 2,000 manuscripts. Roman histories by Tacitus or Livy often rely on fewer than 20 manuscripts, frequently copied more than 500 to 1,000 years after the original events took place. [1, 2]

 

4. Archaeological Evidence

Biblical narratives are embedded in highly verifiable, physical geography and historical chronology. [1]

• The Bible: Hundreds of biblical figures, cities, battles, and cultural details have been validated by archaeology. Discoveries like the Tel Dan Stele (proving the "House of David"), the Cyrus Cylinder (confirming the Jewish return from exile), and the Pool of Siloam showcase this concrete history.
• Contemporary Myths: Pagan myths typically take place in an untestable "primordial time" (in illo tempore) or in fluid, non-existent cosmic geographies. Even when real cities like Troy appear in legends, the actions of the deities within them are ungrounded in real chronological history. [1, 2, 3]

 

5. Language Defining the Supernatural

A fascinating textual indicator is the sheer strain on language when biblical authors describe transcendent visions. Rather than leaning on clean, anthropomorphic descriptions of local gods, biblical authors write with an obvious lack of a proper physical frame of reference.

• The Bible: When Ezekiel visions the Chariot of God, or when John writes Revelation, they repeatedly use words like "appeared like," "as it were," and "the likeness of." They resort to chaotic, non-linear imagery (eyes on wheels, multi-headed cherubim, blending metals and fire) because human language breaks down when trying to explain the encounter.
• Contemporary Myths: Pagan deities are usually described using very clear, anthropomorphic, and physical terms. Zeus throws a physical lightning bolt, Isis searches for physical body pieces, and deities fight, drink, and couple using standard human mechanics.

 

6. Knowledge that Precedes Science

The Bible contains functional, systemic guidelines that uniquely anticipated modern medicine and hygiene millennia before germ theory or epidemiology were understood.

• The Bible: Levitical laws required strict quarantine procedures for communicable diseases (Leviticus 13), mandated the washing of hands and clothes in running water rather than stagnant water after touching a corpse (Numbers 19), and required human waste to be buried outside the camp (Deuteronomy 23).
• Contemporary Religions: Contemporaneous Egyptian and Babylonian medical texts frequently recommended treating wounds with dog dung, animal blood, or magical incantations. This often exacerbated bacterial infections rather than preventing them.

 

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Summary Conclusion

If you evaluate these systems across these six categories, the Bible stands out distinctly from contemporary regional religious options. Rather than relying on ahistorical tales of localized gods, the biblical texts present a highly grounded, internally consistent, historically verifiable, and psychologically transparent worldview that operates on a completely different literary and evidential level.