Deepskies

It's with a bit of sadness that I leave this forum as I can honestly say my views don't match those of this website. As I've mentioned before, I'm not a scientist nor do I claim to be one but some of the evidence I've seen posted here makes me wonder whether or not anybody here has studied any kind of science as well? I had hoped to see the other side of the equation on this site, but what I've seen so far only goes to show me that while the atheists don't have all the answers, their ideas at least make some sense. Yet here, I feel a kind of insular "us against them" mentality where if a person is Christian, that's the only thing that matters and all other viewpoints are null & void. Please feel free to comment on this, pat yourselves on the back, give yourselves some high-fives in the process and remain in your little enclave safe from the world outside. I won't be back to read these responses but I will continue in my search for truth. Thank you for your time.

I didn't respond because there was nothing to respond to. You made a claim that there would be hundreds of stars being born every month and I wouldn't be surprised if there were. The better question would be, "if they are being born then why can't we see them"? Perhaps they're too far away to be seen with the naked eye. Or maybe we're not just looking in the right place. Or maybe the light from these stars is so faint that it's getting lost in all the background noise of the universe. There's no real answer to this, or maybe you're not looking for an answer so much as trying to show how clever you are. I'm not a scientist and I don't claim to be one. I'm a chef and as a hobby I like to look at the stars. I've read some books on astronomy but I've never bothered to get too deeply involved in the hows and whys. Trying to find that out takes some of the wonder out of it. Now in reference to your previous post. Okay, that's interesting but I've never heard of any of this before although I can honestly say I've never studied it in any great deal. I'd be curious as to where you got your information and if I have the time I'll take a look if you can provide the links. From what I've read on the subject, it's gas clouds + gravity + time. We're dealing with gas clouds that contain over 100,000 stellar masses and can be several light years large but gas clouds none the less. I can understand where you're coming from especially if you're a young earth creationist as typically this deals with timescales on the order of billions of years compared to somewhere under 10,000. When people in authority say something that messes with what you believe it can be a little disconcerting. When I look into the skies, I'm looking directly at history all at once. I'm seeing the light that started it's journey the day I was born. I'm seeing the light that started it's journey when the last gun fired in WWII. I'm seeing the light that started it's journey when Rome fell, when the atom was split, when Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel, when Jesus gave his sermon on the mount and beyond that. This ties me to the cosmos and binds me with history. Beyond that, it actually matters little to me. Maybe it's just a Buddhist thing or maybe it's just me.

Thank you very much. And I do realise that the majority of people here have a much different view of the spiritual side of things that I do which is why I wanted to preface it by saying that I wasn't saying that just to get a rise out of people. Its sometimes difficult to make ourselves understood in this way as we lose so much when not talking face to face.

Thank you. So many welcomes, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It's not really pantheistic as at it's heart there is no god. There are Devas who are powerful spiritual beings, more powerful than humans and while they're sometimes translated as "gods" they're not. I would say they're closer to angels but even that's not quite the same thing.

Yes, I figured namaste was the best way to declare that. No, I don't go in for the caste systems or anything of that nature. I think it's just people creating a reason to be nasty to each other. I think the sport came first and the faith came later. Don't really know so don't quote me on that.

Not a problem. I hope that I can allay your suspicions because I'm not here to cause any kind of trouble. I'm just drifting through and trying to find the other side of the story. Call me a seeker if you wish but my only motive is to learn.

Which laws of physics are they breaking? Gas cloud + time + gravity = star formation. It's a lot more complex than that, but that is the basis of star formation. I will admit to not being the best student when it comes to physics, but I do know my astronomy.

I can answer this question, but first I need to know if this really has any relevance to the matter of my introduction? As I said, I don't want to convert anybody nor do I wish to be converted. I'm looking for the other side of the evolution / creation issue. However if you feel my views have some relevance to this I'd appreciate knowing what they are first.

Thank you very much. I'm looking forward to it as well.

Again, no offense although I'm wondering if I mistakenly offended yourself and Ikester. I hope I didn't come off as rude there, I don't mean to denegrate anybody's beliefs as we all hold beliefs that are dear to us. As for Jesus, I don't believe he was the literal son of god or as some say god himself as in the holy trinity. No, I understand him as being the son of god in the sense that we are all the children of god and god is nothing more than the universe whether it be conscious or not. We can't tell, it's something that each one of us must come to and decide for ourselves. Never close your mind, always be open to new ideas and new thoughts which is why I'm here. I've spoken to the scientifically minded, the atheists and the skeptics and now I want to speak to the believers in Jesus and his divinity. I believe Jesus was a good teacher. He was a good man and he taught the world some valuable lessons which were needed at that time. He preached peace, and non-violence. He prayed for the poor, rebuked the rich, healed the sick and tended to the outcasts of society. But in the end, I believe he was just a man as are we all. While we might not have all the answers, sometimes it's just the journey and the seeking of the truth that makes the difference.

Not at all. Buddha was just a man and he never claimed to be anything else.

Oh we know how they're formed, we've just never actually seen it happen in real time. Part of the problem is, and I believe Billy Bob Thornton said it best in "Armageddon" when he said, "it's a big sky". Typically we only look at small patches of the sky at any one point. There's just too much out there so we focus on what looks interesting. Also there's the time frame involved. These things can take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years to form depending of course on the size of the gas clouds. If we've been looking at the skies for only a couple thousand years, who's to say that we'd see a star forming in that amount of time? We're limited in what we can see and what is observable to us. If a new star was born today, but it was over 100 light years away we wouldn't know about it for 100 years assuming we happened to be looking in it's general vicinity. Truth is, we probably will never see a star being born in our lifetime.

Good day to all. I feel it necessary to introduce myself first. I'm 38 & an amateur astronomer which explains the screenname. I've come here looking for honest and open ideas on evolution, creation and things inbetween. I am not interested in debates over who is right or wrong, nor am I looking to change my world view or that of another. We should be able to discuss these things as rational beings without getting all tied up in our own personal views. Yes, I am a Buddhist and I am agnostic as we are imperfect beings and as such we can ever truly know the mind of god or even if he exists. Also, while I believe Jesus was a great teacher I do believe he was only a man even if he was very enlightened. I'm sorry if that offends anybody here, it's not my intent to offend. Thank you and peace to you all.