New Theory On Starlight

[scott 3]

Did you learn trig in high school?

 

Sun

|\

| \

|  \

|    \

|B    \A

|       \

|         \

|           \

|             \

|________\

Earth C  Moon

We know the angles BC and CA, and we know side C. It's not a very hard problem. There are plenty of other ways of measuring the distance, too. There's a satellite, SOHO, that orbits directly between the sun and the Earth. We know that distance. Measure the difference between the size of the sun from SOHO and the size of the sun from Earth. We have the orbits of the various planets mapped out very precisely. They all orbit around the same point. Seriously, it's not that hard.

61956[/snapback]

As I've explained in other threads. The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

 

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C. If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula. A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

 

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

 

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points. Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon. We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

[nortonthe2nd 0]

As I've explained in other threads.  The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

 

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C.  If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula.  A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

 

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

 

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points.  Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon.  We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

61957[/snapback]

...

what?

 

Did you even read my post at all? Try again more carefully.

[Guest tharock220]

As I've explained in other threads.  The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

 

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C.  If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula.  A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

 

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

 

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points.  Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon.  We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

61957[/snapback]

The trig agrees with every other independent method though.

 

You brought this up last time we discussed this, I'm not sure what you mean by reference point??? You can solve every part of a triangle if you have 2 angles and one side.

[scott 3]

The trig agrees with every other independent method though. 

 

You brought this up last time we discussed this, I'm not sure what you mean by reference point???  You can solve every part of a triangle if you have 2 angles and one side.

61962[/snapback]

You have A, B, and C. Actually you don't know the distance to said star B, which your making the reference point for your mileage.

 

You don't have a complete triangle, therefore it's an estimate, because you don't know the true distance of said star, to get the distance of the other star.

[scott 3]

...

what?

 

Did you even read my post at all? Try again more carefully.

61961[/snapback]

You don't have a complete Triangle. Did you even read my post at all? Try again more carefully please.

[Guest Tommy]

As I've explained in other threads.  The Pathagorean Theorem can't actually be used, because you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy, but you don't have that.

 

That means you can't have a complete A, B, and C.  If your missing the most critical reference point then you can't complete the formula.  A known distance must be included within the equation, and you can't just make one up... which many people seem to do since we haven't actually made a trip outside the galaxy to plot a reference point so that we can complete the formula.

 

So, Cassiterides would be correct, because if you use an estimate ( because you and I both know absolutely no one has made the trip to make a reference point) then you will always get an estimate.

 

Now, why would these only be estimates??? Because distances further than the moon cannot be used as reference points.  Even the distance to the Sun would be a guess without a reference point from the moon.  We know the exact distance to the moon, and surrounding planets in our own Galaxy, but outside of that it would definately be a guess.

61957[/snapback]

"Pathagorean "? "you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy"?

 

You just use simple trig. If you don't consider a distance accurate unless someone has made the trip then you're rejecting the professions of surveying and mapmaking.

[Guest tharock220]

You have A, B, and C.  Actually you don't know the distance to said star B, which your making the reference point for your mileage.

 

You don't have a complete triangle, therefore it's an estimate, because you don't know the true distance of said star, to get the distance of the other star.

61964[/snapback]

You don't have A, B, and C. You have C plus two angles and you complete the triangle using them.

[nortonthe2nd 0]

You don't have a complete Triangle. Did you even read my post at all?  Try again more carefully please.

61965[/snapback]

You have the Earth, Moon, and Sun. That sure looks like a complete triangle to me. Where did all that stuff about other galaxies come from? I was responding to Cassiterides, who was saying we dont know the distance to the sun for sure.

[falcone 2]

Scott, Cassiterides

 

Here is a list of probes that have been sent around the Solar System. Some successes and some failures, but I'll bet my mortgage that they didn't fail because we don't know how far away the targets are.

 

Ulysses mission was to study the Sun at all latitudes. To do this required a major orbital plane shift. Due to velocity change limitations of the Shuttle and the IUS, this was accomplished by using an encounter with Jupiter to effect the plane change instead of an engine burn. Source

 

What about the Voyager probes to Jupiter and the recent Cassini probe to Saturn? Could you explain how the success of any of these support your ideas that we can only guess how far away solar objects are, or how big they are?

[Cassiterides 1]

I was responding to Cassiterides, who was saying we dont know the distance to the sun for sure.

61974[/snapback]

Ok so you think you know the exact distance to the sun.

 

Do you not find it odd though that the distance is stated to be 93,000,000 miles?

 

Wow, what a precise figure...

 

Incase you don't understand the above is an estimate.

 

An estimate is a guess...

 

and guesses are not facts are they

[Cassiterides 1]

Scott, Cassiterides

 

Here is a list of probes that have been sent around the Solar System. Some successes and some failures, but I'll bet my mortgage that they didn't fail because we don't know how far away the targets are.

 

Ulysses mission was to study the Sun at all latitudes. To do this required a major orbital plane shift. Due to velocity change limitations of the Shuttle and the IUS, this was accomplished by using an encounter with Jupiter to effect the plane change instead of an engine burn. Source

 

What about the Voyager probes to Jupiter and the recent Cassini probe to Saturn? Could you explain how the success of any of these support your ideas that we can only guess how far away solar objects are, or how big they are?

61978[/snapback]

Yes we can only guess. Unless you believe man has walked on the sun?

 

It kind of gets boring that i have to keep correcting you evolutionists on what is fact and what is a guess, theory, assumption etc.

[scott 3]

You don't have A, B, and C.  You have C plus two angles and you complete the triangle using them.

61971[/snapback]

I know, I know, I know.... Gee Wiz without A known distance which is either A or B, or C... whatever distance your trying to get.

 

Whatever side of the triangle your trying to get you need to use an exact distance to get the next distance.

 

You don't even have 2 complete sides of the trianlge. You absolutely must have a known distance like:

 

Earth to Moon: We have that distance.

 

A to B (AB), that's 1 side... you have the mileage for that side therefore you can get AC.

[scott 3]

"Pathagorean "?  "you need to have a point of reference outside our galaxy"?

 

You just use simple trig.  If you don't consider a distance accurate unless someone has made the trip then you're rejecting the professions of surveying and mapmaking.

61970[/snapback]

You misundestand what I'm saying. I know it's simple trig!!! Surveying and Mapmaking use known distances when they Survey, and make Maps. I know this from firsthand experience.

 

I also know from first hand experience that you absolutely must have a known distance AB, or BC, or whatever side must have a known distance to get the other side correctly.

[scott 3]

You have the Earth, Moon, and Sun. That sure looks like a complete triangle to me. Where did all that stuff about other galaxies come from? I was responding to Cassiterides, who was saying we dont know the distance to the sun for sure.

61974[/snapback]

 

My bad, that's not I was talking about. I was talking about trying to get distances outside the Galaxy. You can't use the known distance of the moon to get a very accurate answer that far out, you must use another distance as a reference point.

[menes777 0]

Ok so you think you know the exact distance to the sun.

 

Do you not find it odd though that the distance is stated to be 93,000,000 miles?

 

Wow, what a precise figure...

 

Incase you don't understand the above is an estimate.

 

An estimate is a guess...

 

and guesses are not facts are they

61989[/snapback]

Look at my post again very carefully, the ~ means about. So it's about 93 million miles, but not exactly. The more exact number is...

 

149,597,871 km

or

92,955,807 miles

 

Also to spell it out more clearly to avoid getting caught up in the minutiae again, the distance to our sun is much greater than a few thousand miles. In fact a few thousand miles is even closer than the moon is to us. Unless of course you want to make it seem like 252 is just a few (252,000 miles).

[menes777 0]

Yes we can only guess. Unless you believe man has walked on the sun?

 

It kind of gets boring that i have to keep correcting you evolutionists on what is fact and what is a guess, theory, assumption etc.

61990[/snapback]

Really you need to take that plank out of your eye before pointing out the speck in someone else's eye.

 

Just to humor you though, what does landing on the sun have anything to do with measuring the distance to it? Absolutely nothing. You think that before we landed on the moon we didn't know how far away it was??? Sorry it was the other way around, to land on the moon required that we know how far away it was first. Then knowing that a mission could be planned to reach it.

 

You seem the one incapable of discerning between a guess and a fact.

Fact: We know the distance to Venus via radar measurements

Fact: We know the angle between an imaginary LOS line between the earth and to Venus compared against a LOS line to the sun

Fact: Trigonometry shows us that if we know one side of a triangle and an adjacent angle we can calculate the lengths of the other sides of the triangle

 

Among several other facts shown at this location (shown earlier)

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=400

 

Guess: Solar flares will increase in 2012 sending John Cusack fleeing for his life

Educated Guess (Hypothesis): Solar activity will most likely increase up to and including 2012, based on current evidence of solar activity

Assumption: The moon is made of cheese

Theory: Fusion powers the sun

[b00tleg 0]

I am developing a new theory which solves the starlight problem for a recent creation.

 

I'm calling my theory the ''Wandering Star Hypothesis''.

 

My theory is that stars were once far closer to the earth, and over time moved further away. I don't know if anyone has theorised this before, but i'm developing it and collecting many interesting sources.

 

I look forward to presenting some stuff here as the research develops.

61851[/snapback]

 

One potential problem I can see with your theory is the energy output of any stars that are within just a few thousand miles of the Earth. Stars also give off energy and radiation in addition to light. A person can get a sunburn just by walking outside on a clear sunny summer day with as little as 15 minutes exposure. And this occurs with the sun being at a guessed distance of 93 million miles away from Earth.

 

Another factor to consider is mass of stars. Stars are guessed to be much more massive then the Earth. Our own sun is guessed to be orders of magnitude bigger then the earth. So the gravitational pull of the sun and any other stars would have to be taken into account if they were only a few thousand miles from the Earth. Just a couple of thoughts.

[Guest tharock220]

I know, I know, I know.... Gee Wiz without A known distance which is either A or B, or C... whatever distance your trying to get.

 

Whatever side of the triangle your trying to get you need to use an exact distance to get the next distance.

 

You don't even have 2 complete sides of the trianlge.  You absolutely must have a known distance like:

 

Earth to Moon: We have that distance.

 

A to B (AB), that's 1 side... you have the mileage for that side therefore you can get AC.

61991[/snapback]

 

So you agree we have the distance to the moon. We only need two other angles. 180 minus the two will give you the third angle. Now, you can have two triangles with the same the angles but the sides are different lengths, that's called congruency. So we have side which you agreed to. So if you have all 3 angles and a known side, the triangle you're going to get is unique. So you can solve the other two sides, but you really only need to solve one, using the law of sines.

 

You don't even need the Moon to do this. You can get the angles from two difference places on the planet at the same time, although a narrower triangle means a smaller parallax so you're more prone to error.

 

Here is another method.

 

I feel I have explained this as well as it can be explained. If you don't want to accept it then I'll never be able to change your mind.

[Guest tharock220]

We don't know the exact size of stars. We can only guess their diameter. There is a theory that the diameter of the sun is only 32 miles. Though others think millions or hundreds of thousands. All of this is guesses and assumption. Unless someone lands or gets close to the Sun, we won't know.

61950[/snapback]

Even if we didn't know their sizes, we know they're incredibly massive and radiate huge amounts of energy. If that much mass and energy were confined in a small region of space there would be evidence of it.

[falcone 2]

We don't know the exact size of stars. We can only guess their diameter. There is a theory that the diameter of the sun is only 32 miles. Though others think millions or hundreds of thousands. All of this is guesses and assumption. Unless someone lands or gets close to the Sun, we won't know.

61950[/snapback]

The currently accepted guess of the sun's diameter is about 1,392,000 kilometers (865,000 mi). In your opinion, is that a good guess? Why or why not?

[Cassiterides 1]

Look at my post again very carefully, the ~ means about.  So it's about 93 million miles, but not exactly.  The more exact number is...

 

149,597,871 km

or

92,955,807 miles

 

Also to spell it out more clearly to avoid getting caught up in the minutiae again, the distance to our sun is much greater than a few thousand miles.    In fact a few thousand miles is even closer than the moon is to us.  Unless of course you want to make it seem like 252 is just a few (252,000 miles).

61994[/snapback]

I don't get how you get this figure and think it is not an estimate or a guess. How do you know the distance unless you travel it? But no one has ever traveled to the Sun, so as the best it can only be an estimate.

 

The same for the size of the universe, people have only ever offered us their estimate or theory to its size. You then have all the different universe theories, some say it has an edge, others say it just keeps on going.

[Cassiterides 1]

The currently accepted guess of the sun's diameter is  about 1,392,000 kilometers (865,000 mi). In your opinion, is that a good guess? Why or why not?

62001[/snapback]

A scientist in 1899 claimed the diameter is only 32 miles, some of his points made are very interesting.

 

''The sun is always somewhere between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, a distance admitted to be less than 3,000 miles; how then can the sun if it be so many thousand miles in diameter, squeece itself into a space of about 3,000 miles only...can a camel ride on a mouse, or a whale rush down the throat of a herring?

 

What is the diameter of the sun?

 

32 miles. If the navigator neglects to apply the sun's semi-diameter to his observation at sea, he is 16 nautical miles (nearly) in calculating the position his ship is in. A minute of arc on the sextant represents a nautical mile, and if the semi-diameter be 16 miles, the diameter is of course 32 miles. And as measured by the sextant, the sun's diameter is 32 minutes of arc, that is 32 nautical miles in diameter. If ever dispoof is attempted, it will be a literary curiosity, well worth framing.''

[nortonthe2nd 0]

I don't get how you get this figure and think it is not an estimate or a guess. How do you know the distance unless you travel it? But no one has ever traveled to the Sun, so as the best it can only be an estimate.

 

The same for the size of the universe, people have only ever offered us their estimate or theory to its size. You then have all the different universe theories, some say it has an edge, others say it just keeps on going.

62007[/snapback]

You know Cassiterides, you're free to believe whatever you want, but if you cant do better than the equivalent of shoving your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING," dont expect anyone to take you seriously. This point has been thoroughly addressed by me and others, and you continue to just say the same thing over and over without even attempting to respond to our arguments. You could understand this point if you did even the slightest bit of independent research. Not even AIG tries to claim the sun is 32 miles wide. Do you also think the sun goes around the Earth? Again, you're free to believe whatever you believe, but dont expect any respect for it.

[falcone 2]

Ok, you think the diameter of the sun is 32 miles because an unnamed scientist in 1899 said so. Thanks.

 

How do you know the distance unless you travel it?

Go to maps.google.co.uk and plug in your home address as the starting location and 272 St Vincent Street Glasgow as the destination. Go via a friend's house if you like. It will tell you the distance despite the fact that no-one has travelled it before. Do you think it is accurate? Why or why not?

[scott 3]

Ok, you think the diameter of the sun is 32 miles because an unnamed scientist in 1899 said so. Thanks.

Go to maps.google.co.uk and plug in your home address as the starting location and 272 St Vincent Street Glasgow as the destination. Go via a friend's house if you like. It will tell you the distance despite the fact that no-one has travelled it before. Do you think it is accurate? Why or why not?

62013[/snapback]

I have to reply to this simply because it is not entirely accurate to claim that no-one has traveled that distance. Technically people have already traveled and mapped out those distances, and distributed those maps via Satellite, or GPS.

 

Of course if people don't update those maps, they can lead people down roads in their car that aren't in use anymore as main highways, etc...

 

But you are correct, no one has traveled that specific destination, but the ones who made the maps, already traveled, and plotted the roads so that you could choose that destination.