The Mystery Of Sirius B

[Cassiterides 1]

There is a well known mystery amongst astronomers which centers on a star named Sirius B, which is a type of star referred to as a "white dwarf."

 

The problem stems from the fact that although ancient astronomers were also well acquainted with this star, unlike our present-day astronomers they described Sirius as red rather than white. Consider the following:

 

First, Ptolemy, at the end of his star-catalogue in Books VII-VIII of the Almagest (written c 140 AD), describes Sirius as hypocirros - fiery red. The poet Aratus, the orator Cicero, and Germanicus also described Sirius as red or ruddy of colour.

 

In his Natural Questions (I. i. 6), the Stoic philosopher Seneca compared the relative redness of three specific celestial bodies, writing, n coelo quoque non unus appareat color rerum , sed acrior sit caniculae rubor, Martis remissior, Jovis nullus: ¡°n the heavens also there does not appear one color of things, but the redness of the Dog Star is deeper, that of Mars milder, that of Jupiter nothing at all''

 

Quintus Smyrnaeus, in his 4th century AD Fall of Troy 8. 30 ff (trans. Way) noted:

 

"From the ocean-verge upsprings Helios (the Sun) in glory, flashing fire far over earth - fire, when beside his radiant chariot-team races the red star Seirios, scatterer if woefullest diseases over men."

 

So what is the mystery?

 

The mystery is that under evolutionist assumptions of Stellar evolution, stars should take hundreds of thousands or millions of years to change from red giants to white dwarves. Yet this is clearly contradicted by the fact within historical times Sirius B has transformed from a red giant to a white dwarf star!

 

 

As Dr Paul D.Ackerman wrote:

 

''The mystery of Sirius B is that according to present conceptions of thermonuclear star radiation it should take at least 100,000 years for a red giant star to collapse into a white dwarf star. Something is obviously wrong with our present conception of how stars work.''

[Harry 1]

Cut... and... paste.

 

Are you ever going to credit the source or do you want people to think you wrote this stuff?

[Cassiterides 1]

  Harry said:

Cut... and... paste.

 

Are you ever going to credit the source or do you want people to think you wrote this stuff?

59908[/snapback]

What have i copied and pasted? In fact i spent a long time digging most of those sources from my personal book collection (i.e Quintus Smyrnaeus).

[Harry 1]

  Cassiterides said:

What have i copied and pasted? In fact i spent a long time digging most of those sources from my personal book collection (i.e Quintus Smyrnaeus).

59913[/snapback]

http://www.creationism.org/ackerman/Ackerm...WorldChap07.htm

 

"The problem stems from the fact that although ancient astronomers were also well acquainted with this star, unlike our present-day astronomers they described Sirius as red rather than white! Consider the following:"

 

You "wrote":

 

"The problem stems from the fact that although ancient astronomers were also well acquainted with this star, unlike our present-day astronomers they described Sirius as red rather than white. Consider the following:"

 

What are the odds?

[scott 3]

  Harry said:

http://www.creationism.org/ackerman/Ackerm...WorldChap07.htm

 

"The problem stems from the fact that although ancient astronomers were also well acquainted with this star, unlike our present-day astronomers they described Sirius as red rather than white! Consider the following:"

 

You "wrote":

 

"The problem stems from the fact that although ancient astronomers were also well acquainted with this star, unlike our present-day astronomers they described Sirius as red rather than white. Consider the following:"

 

What are the odds? 

59915[/snapback]

Does it really matter if he cut's or pastes? Does it really really really matter? No.

[Harry 1]

  scott said:

Does it really matter if he cut's or pastes?  Does it really really really matter?  No.

59919[/snapback]

No, it doesn't matter if he cut and pastes quotes and articles. It matters that he doesn't properly credit and/or reference the source.

 

It's in the forum guidelines. Really... it is.

[scott 3]

  Harry said:

No, it doesn't matter if he cut and pastes quotes and articles. It matters that he doesn't properly credit and/or reference the source.

 

It's in the forum guidelines. Really... it is. 

59920[/snapback]

Oh, he had me fooled... I thought he had credited it with quotation marks. Hmm, well thank you then for pointing this out, because it does in fact need to be addressed.

 

Cassiterides, please give credit where credit is due. This may just be a forum, but plagarism still applies to this, or anywhere you go as well.

[Cassiterides 1]

  scott said:

Oh, he had me fooled...  I thought he had credited it with quotation marks.  Hmm, well thank you then for pointing this out, because it does in fact need to be addressed.

 

Cassiterides, please give credit where credit is due.  This may just be a forum, but plagarism still applies to this, or anywhere you go as well.

Harry has ruined three of my threads with the 'copy and paste claim'. Yet, i haven't copied and pasted without referencing.

 

Note how in this thread his accusation changed from my whole post having been copied and pasted to then just the following line:

 

''The problem stems from the fact that although ancient astronomers were also well acquainted with this star, unlike our present-day astronomers they described Sirius as red rather than white. Consider the following''

 

This small quote is from Dr Paul D.Ackerman, who if you note i quoted at the bottom of my first post.

[Guest tharock220]

  Cassiterides said:

Harry has ruined three of my threads with the 'copy and paste claim'. Yet, i haven't copied and pasted without referencing.

 

Note how in this thread his accusation changed from my whole post having been copied and pasted to then just the following line:

 

''The problem stems from the fact that although ancient astronomers were also well acquainted with this star, unlike our present-day astronomers they described Sirius as red rather than white. Consider the following''

 

This small quote is from Dr Paul D.Ackerman, who if you note i quoted at the bottom of my first post.

59924[/snapback]

Nobody is derailing your thread. It was a legitimate point, but I understand, you want your point addressed.

 

1. The Sun is actually a white star, but it looks yellow from Earth because we're under an atmosphere.

 

2. Ancient Chinese astronomers observed that Sirius is white around the same time. Link

 

Now which is more likely??? The star underwent a drastic change for which we see no evidence, or it simply appeared red to some ancient astronomers as it can today.

[Cassiterides 1]

  tharock220 said:

2.  Ancient Chinese astronomers observed that Sirius is white around the same time.

You are linking to a paper, which can be found here:

 

http://shc2000.sjtu.edu.cn/030901/tianlangxs.htm

 

If you type this link on a search-engine (i.e Google) you should get a free English translation. The paper only includes a single quote from Sima Qian, Chinese author of the Records of the Grand Historian (compiled around 100BC). Sirius apparently is described as ''white than wolf'' in this text, but the citation does not include the translator, or edition of the work, or even a reference to where this alleged quote is found in Sima Qian's work.

 

  Quote

Now which is more likely???  The star underwent a drastic change for which we see no evidence, or it simply appeared red to some ancient astronomers as it can today.

The evidence is in ancient western literature, some of which i have cited.

[Guest tharock220]

  Cassiterides said:

You are linking to a paper, which can be found here:

 

http://shc2000.sjtu.edu.cn/030901/tianlangxs.htm

 

If you type this link on a search-engine (i.e Google) you should get a free English translation. The paper only includes a single quote from Sima Qian, Chinese author of the Records of the Grand Historian (compiled around 100BC). Sirius apparently is described as ''white than wolf'' in this text, but the citation does not include the translator, or edition of the work, or even a reference to where this alleged quote is found in Sima Qian's work.

The paper I cited also cites other papers that address this. Do you have the direct translations of the Greek or Latin quotes??? Do you you speak Greek or Latin, or do you just trust the source as I did???

 

 

  Cassiterides said:

The evidence is in ancient western literature, some of which i have cited.

59929[/snapback]

No, you're missing the point. Cosmological evidence doesn't exist. When a red giant turns into a white dwarf it loses mass, but that isn't seen. What we have seen is Sirius appear red when it's close to the horizon, it sometimes appears to change colors even higher in the sky.

 

If you're going to pass off recycled arguments as your own, try using one that hasn't been refuted several times already.

[ikester7579 19]

I'm closing this thread because it's non-debatable at this point.