Three Questions

[Cassiterides 1]

Well three questions about the Bible. These are questions that i've had on my mind but never asked for a while. They might seem quite random, but any answer(s) will be appreciated.

 

Firstly, is it acceptable to have long hair (as a guy) and be a Christian?

 

Secondly is it acceptable to play computer games and be a Christian?

 

Thirdly is it acceptable to use contraception (in marriage) and be a Christian?

[MamaElephant 20]

Well three questions about the Bible. These are questions that i've had on my mind but never asked for a while. They might seem quite random, but any answer(s) will be appreciated.

 

Firstly, is it acceptable to have long hair (as a guy) and be a Christian?

 

Secondly is it acceptable to play computer games and be a Christian?

 

Thirdly is it acceptable to use contraception (in marriage) and be a Christian?

63033[/snapback]

All of these are matters of conscience, but we can use the principles in God's Word to reason through them.

 

The first question has to do with modesty, IMO. The Scriptures tell us to be modest and humble and put others ahead of ourselves, giving no reason for offense. If a hairstyle in your region of the world is generally considered rebellious then it would not be acceptable. Being an art student, I used to dress in a very eccentric way. I thought that as long as it wasn't too s@xually enticing, too much flesh, etc. that it was fine, but we had a discussion about modesty in our Bible study group and came to the conclusion that drawing attention to yourself is by definition immodest, so I was in the wrong when I dressed in that manner.

 

Question number 2 is a question of balance. Christians are to seek the kingdom first and have appropriate priorities so we need to watch that computer gaming (or message boards pointing at myself) don't take up so much time that your other Christian responsibilities are not being fulfilled (such as fulfilling the spiritual, physical and emotional needs of yourself and your family and also showing love of neighbor and building up the congregation). We also see that God hates violence and immorality, so we want to be sure that we are imitating Him and hating those things as well.

 

Third question: Many people have different views on this matter. I know that God is reasonable and we have made our personal decision in this matter for our family. I found a good article on the subject on Jehovah's Witnesses website. http://www.watchtower.org/e/200709a/article_01.htm It is called Is Contraception Morally Wrong.

 

Here is a good quote from that:

 

* Is there anything sinful about S@xual relations between husband and wife?â€â€ÂProverbs 5:15, 18, 19.

* What should Christians bear in mind if they use contraceptives?â€â€ÂExodus 21:22, 23.

* How should others view married couples who use contraceptives?â€â€ÂRomans 14:4, 10-13.

 

 

HTH!

[ikester7579 19]

Well three questions about the Bible. These are questions that i've had on my mind but never asked for a while. They might seem quite random, but any answer(s) will be appreciated.

 

Firstly, is it acceptable to have long hair (as a guy) and be a Christian?

 

Secondly is it acceptable to play computer games and be a Christian?

 

Thirdly is it acceptable to use contraception (in marriage) and be a Christian?

63033[/snapback]

1) If having long hair bothers you enough to ask, then maybe the Holy Spirit is putting you under conviction.

 

2) It's according to what kind of computer games. You may think because I'm almost 50 that I don't know about stuff like that. But I used to be a big online player of games. And I can remember that a lot of them had Satanic things in them. The last 2 games I played were halo 1 which I completed. And just about an hour of halo 2 (at a friends house). I played all the unreal tournament games. EA racing games. And military war games (first shooter). Some of the evil stuff in those games kept bothering me. There was one game, can't remember the name, where you were fighting against this crazy scientist who was doing human experiments to turn men into mutated zombie fighting machines. When you went into the room where they kept them and they were suffering. The noises that were being made were done to sound totally evil. Even the guy who owned it said that he felt it also. I know it sounds strange, but it's what we experienced and I'm sure whom ever did the sounds in that game had that intent.

 

I even did a map for one game where you fight in darkness except where there was dim red lights. And had fog running down the walls and across the floor and the fog glowed green-white and made light. My plan was to make semi solid walls where one could hide and peek out of and shoot. But never got that far. Plus the fog particle generators in the map put major strain on the cpu so if one did not have a fast computer, they could not use the map. I also like flight simulators.

 

So I quit the games that bothered me. And I don't buy ones I know will be along the same lines. And I don't let it take up a lot of my time because God did not give us life to play video games. Playing for recreation is fine. But when the game takes over your life to where it's the first thing you think of when you wake up, and what you dream about when you go to sleep, and takes up half of your day. I don't think God is going to approve. Playing games that deal with magic, I know God is not going to approve of.

 

The basic way of telling what is right and wrong about this is to ask yourself: Would you approve if the pastor of your church took and played a magic game in front of the congregation? Where you know where only good is supposed to be represented, you can apply the thing you want to test and your heart and mind will tell you if it's right or wrong.

 

3) That's an gray area question. Because there maybe circumstances acceptable to God.

[Cassiterides 1]

All of these are matters of conscience, but we can use the principles in God's Word to reason through them.

 

The first question has to do with modesty, IMO. The Scriptures tell us to be modest and humble and put others ahead of ourselves, giving no reason for offense. If a hairstyle in your region of the world is generally considered rebellious then it would not be acceptable. Being an art student, I used to dress in a very eccentric way. I thought that as long as it wasn't too s@xually enticing, too much flesh, etc. that it was fine, but we had a discussion about modesty in our Bible study group and came to the conclusion that drawing attention to yourself is by definition immodest, so I was in the wrong when I dressed in that manner.

1 Corinthians 11: 14 says long hair is not natural for males (note: this is the only anti-long hair passage in the entire Bible). Many fundamentalist Christian groups therefore claim that long hair on men is breaking the laws of the created sexes, men should look like men, women as woman etc (a fair argument, but how do we know what is really 'natural'?). However there are problems with this. Firstly in the Old Testament we read of many long haired figures (i.e the Nazirites) such as Samson and Absalom (2 Samuel 14: 25-26). In Judges 16: 17 Samson declares his strength and relationship to God is related to his long hair.

 

I know JW's don't like long haired men because they think long hair on men denotes a kind of 'unisex' position and breaking of God's intended sexes - strict dictinction between male and female, but as noted though throughout the OT there are numerous descriptions of long haired figures who God approved of.

 

My position is that any hair length is acceptable as long as it does not look feminine on a male, so my problem therefore would be against hairstyles, not the exact hair length. And vice versa for a female. Why i raised this point/question was that i noticed there are a lot of fundamentalist groups who when they see males with long hair accuse them of not being Christian. I don't hold that view.

 

Question number 2 is a question of balance. Christians are to seek the kingdom first and have appropriate priorities so we need to watch that computer gaming (or message boards  pointing at myself) don't take up so much time that your other Christian responsibilities are not being fulfilled (such as fulfilling the spiritual, physical and emotional needs of yourself and your family and also showing love of neighbor and building up the congregation). We also see that God hates violence and immorality, so we want to be sure that we are imitating Him and hating those things as well. 

That's a good answer. I used to play a lot of computer games a few years back, but as soon as i hit higher education i moderated it.

 

Third question: Many people have different views on this matter. I know that God is reasonable and we have made our personal decision in this matter for our family. I found a good article on the subject on Jehovah's Witnesses website. http://www.watchtower.org/e/200709a/article_01.htm It is called Is Contraception Morally Wrong.

 

Here is a good quote from that: 

 

* Is there anything sinful about S@xual relations between husband and wife?â€â€ÂProverbs 5:15, 18, 19.

* What should Christians bear in mind if they use contraceptives?â€â€ÂExodus 21:22, 23.

* How should others view married couples who use contraceptives?â€â€ÂRomans 14:4, 10-13.

HTH!

I will take a look at those passages. My position would be that it's acceptable but only in marriage. I don't believe in any s@x before marriage.

 

1) If having long hair bothers you enough to ask, then maybe the Holy Spirit is putting you under conviction.

Well i'ts on my mind because several Christian groups have stated they are against it. I don't at all follow other groups, since i believe we should trust the Bible before man - however i consider myself quite a fundamentalist (not over the top like some cults though ) yet christian fundameltalist groups all says long hair is not acceptable for men.

 

2) It's according to what kind of computer games. You may think because I'm almost 50 that I don't know about stuff like that. But I used to be a big online player of games. And I can remember that a lot of them had Satanic things in them. The last 2 games I played were halo 1 which I completed. And just about an hour of halo 2 (at a friends house).  I played all the unreal tournament games. EA racing games. And military war games (first shooter). Some of the evil stuff in those games kept bothering me. There was one game, can't remember the name, where you were fighting against this crazy scientist who was doing human experiments to turn men into mutated zombie fighting machines. When you went into the room where they kept them and they were suffering. The noises that were being made were done to sound totally evil. Even the guy who owned it said that he felt it also. I know it sounds strange, but it's what we experienced and I'm sure whom ever did the sounds in that game had that intent.

 

I even did a map for one game where you fight in darkness except where there was dim red lights. And had fog running down the walls and across the floor and the fog glowed green-white and made light. My plan was to make semi solid walls where one could hide and peek out of and shoot. But never got that far. Plus the fog particle generators in the map put major strain on the cpu so if one did not have a fast computer, they could not use the map. I also like flight simulators.

 

So I quit the games that bothered me. And I don't buy ones I know will be along the same lines. And I don't let it take up a lot of my time because God did not give us life to play video games. Playing for recreation is fine. But when the game takes over your life to where it's the first thing you think of when you wake up, and what you dream about when you go to sleep, and takes up half of your day. I don't think God is going to approve. Playing games that deal with magic, I know God is not going to approve of.

 

The basic way of telling what is right and wrong about this is to ask yourself: Would you approve if the pastor of your church took and played a magic game in front of the congregation? Where you know where only good is supposed to be represented, you can apply the thing you want to test and your heart and mind will tell you if it's right or wrong.

 

3) That's an gray area question. Because there maybe circumstances acceptable to God.

I'll get back to you on this very soon, i'm just about to go watch something. Thanks for typing this out, when i return i will get back to you on this.

[Cassiterides 1]

It's according to what kind of computer games. You may think because I'm almost 50 that I don't know about stuff like that. But I used to be a big online player of games. And I can remember that a lot of them had Satanic things in them. The last 2 games I played were halo 1 which I completed. And just about an hour of halo 2 (at a friends house).  I played all the unreal tournament games. EA racing games. And military war games (first shooter). Some of the evil stuff in those games kept bothering me. There was one game, can't remember the name, where you were fighting against this crazy scientist who was doing human experiments to turn men into mutated zombie fighting machines. When you went into the room where they kept them and they were suffering. The noises that were being made were done to sound totally evil. Even the guy who owned it said that he felt it also. I know it sounds strange, but it's what we experienced and I'm sure whom ever did the sounds in that game had that intent.

My Dad plays some computer games occasionally and he's 53, he only does sports ones though. I agree there is a lot of satanic content to most modern games, i try to avoid those as much as possible. I pretty much gave up MMORPG's because you can never complete them and they get addictive. Only games i play at the moment are old ones, such as die by the sword, the old tomb raider games etc.

 

Most modern games dabble in satanic content, i noticed this with films as well.

 

The basic way of telling what is right and wrong about this is to ask yourself: Would you approve if the pastor of your church took and played a magic game in front of the congregation? Where you know where only good is supposed to be represented, you can apply the thing you want to test and your heart and mind will tell you if it's right or wrong.

Well i got rid of all the bad games with bad (i.e satanic/magic) content. Not sure why i had some of these from the start. I actually used to play rpg board games like dungeons & dragons etc a while back. I gave all this up because of the magic content.

 

3) That's an gray area question. Because there maybe circumstances acceptable to God.

Well i found quite a good answer at Bible-Questions.org:

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/birth-control.html

[Fred Williams 0]

Well i found quite a good answer at Bible-Questions.org:

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/birth-control.html

63058[/snapback]

That a pretty good answer, but misses the most important aspect, whether or not the birth control used is an 'abortifacient'. Obviously from scripture, any birth control method that has the potential to cause death to the baby should not be taken, so the different methods should be diligently researched. Here is one such source:

 

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/whic...cause_abortion/

 

Fred

[Kaliko 0]

2) It's according to what kind of computer games. You may think because I'm almost 50 that I don't know about stuff like that. But I used to be a big online player of games. And I can remember that a lot of them had Satanic things in them. The last 2 games I played were halo 1 which I completed. And just about an hour of halo 2 (at a friends house).  I played all the unreal tournament games. EA racing games. And military war games (first shooter). Some of the evil stuff in those games kept bothering me. There was one game, can't remember the name, where you were fighting against this crazy scientist who was doing human experiments to turn men into mutated zombie fighting machines. When you went into the room where they kept them and they were suffering. The noises that were being made were done to sound totally evil. Even the guy who owned it said that he felt it also. I know it sounds strange, but it's what we experienced and I'm sure whom ever did the sounds in that game had that intent.

 

I even did a map for one game where you fight in darkness except where there was dim red lights. And had fog running down the walls and across the floor and the fog glowed green-white and made light. My plan was to make semi solid walls where one could hide and peek out of and shoot. But never got that far. Plus the fog particle generators in the map put major strain on the cpu so if one did not have a fast computer, they could not use the map. I also like flight simulators.

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Yeah, I know i'm not Christian, but video games do interest me.

 

The best example of a game using satanic imagery in-game that you're talking about would probably be the Doom series (which I can guess you're aware of). But i've never seen a game where the demon or satanic spirit is the players character, unless it's a role-playing game where the player makes the choices that lead them down that path.

I think the reason some of the games rated for a mature audience include Satanic content (such as Doom, F.E.A.R., Quake, etc) is because the developers set out from the start to make a game that's intentionally frightening to the player. They know dark spirits, zombies, Satan, and demons are scary. That's why they're used. Nobody turns on Silent Hill for a pleasant, entertaining experience. They do it for the same reasons somebody watches a Friday the 13th movie. Some people just like to be scared.

 

So that's my 2 cents.

[menes777 0]

I would have never guessed that you two were gamers.

 

I am a gamer somewhat myself when I have the time. What online games did you play? I used to play Ultima Online and now I play WoW sometimes (just not online). I loved Unreal Tournament 2004 (UT3 was a huge disappointment to me) and would spend hours setting up impossible odds in invasion and seeing how long we could last. Were you ever a COD fan? I wasn't too happy with MW2, nice game, but overall left a bitter taste. I love other games too (Fallout 3, HOMM 3, 4, & 5, Crysis, Sid Meiers Trains, Civilization IV, etc...)

 

Anyway, I have wondered about #2 myself. I used to wonder if there were a proper game that Christians should play. Like do you remember those Bible games that were out on the NES? I use to wonder if those were the proper games that Christians should play. Does it matter how much a game features killing? I mean it's really not killing, it's just a game.

[MamaElephant 20]

I know JW's don't like long haired men because they think long hair on men denotes a kind of 'unisex' position and breaking of God's intended sexes - strict dictinction between male and female, but as noted though throughout the OT there are numerous descriptions of long haired figures who God approved of.

 

My position is that any hair length is acceptable as long as it does not look feminine on a male, so my problem therefore would be against hairstyles, not the exact hair length. And vice versa for a female. Why i raised this point/question was that i noticed there are a lot of fundamentalist groups who when they see males with long hair accuse them of not being Christian. I don't hold that view.

63048[/snapback]

You ignored what I had to say in favor of what you think or know JWs position is on the matter. I am a JW and I gave you my position on the matter.

 

 

Well i found quite a good answer at Bible-Questions.org:

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/birth-control.html

63058[/snapback]

That article states that there is never anything negative in the Bible about the ability to have children. This is incorrect. “Woe to the pregnant women and those suckling a baby in those days!†(Mt 24:19; Mr 13:17; Lu 21:23) Luke 23:29: "On the contrary, weep for yourselves and for YOUR children; 29 because, look! days are coming in which people will say, ‘Happy are the barren women, and the wombs that did not give birth and the breasts that did not nurse!’ "

 

Matthew 19:10-12 also seems to be saying that barrenness can be good in some situations. And this scripture is a bit controversial:"Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced. Henceforth let those who have wives be as though they had none," (1 Corinthians 7:29) Of course we can see what was meant by reading the context, but suffice it to say that producing copious amounts of children doesn't seem to be the idea here.

 

 

That a pretty good answer, but misses the most important aspect, whether or not the birth control used is an 'abortifacient'. Obviously from scripture, any birth control method that has the potential to cause death to the baby should not be taken, so the different methods should be diligently researched. Here is one such source:

 

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/whic...cause_abortion/

 

Fred

63060[/snapback]

I agree, that aspect should always be mentioned.

[Cassiterides 1]

You ignored what I had to say in favor of what you think or know JWs position is on the matter.    I am a JW and I gave you my position on the matter.

JW's change their minds, well the assembly does who controls the rest. For example, JW's for many years believed Jesus died on a cross, now they say it was a stake and maintain that anyone who believes in the cross is a pagan (this is despite they used to).

[MamaElephant 20]

maintain that anyone who believes in the cross is a pagan (this is despite they used to).

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I don't hold that position and I very much doubt that you can find a quote that says that "anyone who believes in the cross is a pagan". The belief itself has pagan roots but that is not the position that you have stated above.

 

JW's change their minds,

63077[/snapback]

In the case of hairstyles that would indeed make sense as the acceptability of certain hairstyles and their connotations to the rest of society have indeed changed over the years.

[Cassiterides 1]

I don't hold that position and I very much doubt that you can find a quote that says that "anyone who believes in the cross is a pagan". The belief itself has pagan roots but that is not the position that you have stated above. 

Original JW logo from their Watchtower publication, 1891 (top left):

 

 

JW's founder Charles Taze Russell, made the official logo a Crown and Cross (a traditional Christian emblem). After Russel's death however the symbol was deemed pagan and non-Christian by JW's. Furthermore Russell's views on the Great Pyramid at Giza were denounced after his death by JW's as satanic.

 

http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/pyramid.html

 

 

Above: Russell's gravestone (note pyramid shape and cross and crown emblem)

 

Modern JW's however claim pyramidology is satanic in origin. This started with Joseph Rutherford the second president of the Watchtower Society.

 

He wrote (Watchtower 1928, November 15th p. 344):

 

"It is more reasonable to conclude that the great pyramid of Gizeh, as well as the other pyramids thereabout, also the sphinx, were built by the rulers of Egypt and under the directions of Satan the Devil... Then Satan put his knowledge in dead stone, which may be called Satans' Bible, and not God's stone witness..."

 

Rutherford also claimed the cross was a pagan emblem. Modern JW's hold this position, how do i know? I've spoken to them in person.

 

JW's are a cult controlled by a body of presidents who over the years have contradicted themselves and changed their minds.

[MamaElephant 20]

You still did not provide a quote to back up your statement, nor support that statement with any more evidence than what you already had. You just provided other information.

 

It does not bother me to know that Charles Russel was not perfect as I have never considered him a "leader". That is quite interesting though.

There is one leader, Christ.

[Cassiterides 1]

You still did not provide a quote to back up your statement, nor support that statement with any more evidence than what you already had. You just provided other information.

 

It does not bother me to know that Charles Russel was not perfect as I have never considered him a "leader". That is quite interesting though.

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I'm not wasting time going through Watchtower publications, but i know, and have seen JW literature before calling the cross pagan/satanic. This is what JW's did exactly the same for the pyramid.

 

As i said JW's change their minds every few years. Yes people can change, but JW's go from one extreme to the other, and then oddly sometimes start denying what they formerly believed. This includes their stance on creationism. JW's used to believe the earth was 40,000 years old (a very odd figure outside of YEC), now they take the stance saying ''we can't know''.

[Kaliko 0]

Am I the only one that thinks it's strange that Cassiterides is trying to tell a Jehovahs Witness what Jehovahs Witnesses believe?

[MamaElephant 20]

Am I the only one that thinks it's strange that Cassiterides is trying to tell a Jehovahs Witness what Jehovahs Witnesses believe?

63094[/snapback]

Um, no. I find it very odd. I also don't understand why Cassiterides is using bait and switch debate tactics, as I was unaware that this was a debate.

 

I also keep thinking that Cass and I have a lot in common, but he keeps shooting me down at the strangest times.

 

The article on contraception that Cassiterides referred to was incorrect, perhaps he is trying to draw attention away from the scriptures that I quoted?

 

I know better now than to simply cite them as there is every indication that no one then takes the time to look them up, so I quoted them, and for some reason this thread wants them ignored instead of discussing it. That is unfortunate, as those scriptures seem to mean something to me personally due to my history, and they are not part of religious dogma of Jehovah's Witnesses, just something that I noticed...

 

[Javabean 2]

Am I the only one that thinks it's strange that Cassiterides is trying to tell a Jehovahs Witness what Jehovahs Witnesses believe?

63094[/snapback]

 

Unfortunately not everyone knows a lot about their own religion, or its beginnings. I'm not saying MamaElephant doesn't know it, but Cass probably thinks she doesn't.

[MamaElephant 20]

Unfortunately not everyone knows a lot about their own religion, or its beginnings.

63099[/snapback]

Yes, that is true of a lot of people in general...

 

I found an article in the 1958 Watchtower about the Great Pyramid of Giza and it contains a footnote about Bible Students beliefs held until 1928 regarding the pyramid. These things are not hidden. Most Jehovah's Witnesses have all of the literature on CD-ROM, besides volumes and copies of the literature in our own personal libraries and the congregation library, so it is very much available to us.

 

Russel is not a founder or leader. He is just a bible student (one of many) that took the individual teachings of several Christian denominations (that were different and Bible-based) and started to put them together. He happened to be the one with the resources to head up the organization at that time. Some people did follow him as a leader. Some of those left the faith, others were corrected.

 

But we are still on the off-topic bait and switch part of the debate. That tactic does work well doesn't it?

[menes777 0]

Unfortunately not everyone knows a lot about their own religion, or its beginnings.  I'm not saying MamaElephant doesn't know it, but Cass probably thinks she doesn't.

63099[/snapback]

 

There was an article on Yahoo (Yahoo linked to) how that atheists and agnostics (and religious minorities) knew more about Xianity than the Christians did.

 

The least surprising surprise-but the most commented-on-in the “U. S. Religious Knowledge Survey†issued by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life last Tuesday was picked up at once by Laurie Goodstein in The New York Times. As polls showed that there was not much “Religious Knowledge†on hand, she stressed, “Those who scored the highest were atheists and agnostics, as well as two religious minorities: Jews and Mormons.†Why was anyone surprised?

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20101...acy-in-america/

 

[Cassiterides 1]

Um, no. I find it very odd. I also don't understand why Cassiterides is using bait and switch debate tactics, as I was unaware that this was a debate.

 

I also keep thinking that Cass and I have a lot in common, but he keeps shooting me down at the strangest times.

 

The article on contraception that Cassiterides referred to was incorrect, perhaps he is trying to draw attention away from the scriptures that I quoted?

 

I know better now than to simply cite them as there is every indication that no one then takes the time to look them up, so I quoted them, and for some reason this thread wants them ignored instead of discussing it. That is unfortunate, as those scriptures seem to mean something to me personally due to my history, and they are not part of religious dogma of Jehovah's Witnesses, just something that I noticed...

 

63098[/snapback]

If you read the OP, my basis was Bible answers.

 

Instead you just spammed (again) watchtower links. I'm not a JW, so why would i go there?

 

Also in this thread:

http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/in...topic=3658&st=0

 

You did the same thing. I noticed though after you spam your watchtower links, and people ignore them you then either leave the debate (as you did in that thread) or start (quite ignorantly) asking people to go to those links:

 

You ignored what I had to say in favor of what you think or know JWs position is on the matter.

Nope, i simply refused to go to your watchtower link. And because of that you derailed this entire thread accusing me of baiting and other rubbish.

 

The fact you rarely post without quoting or linking Watchtower, really shows how much a cult JW is. Those that write watchtower are quite clearly controlling you, since all you can do is quote from there. And the reason i also didn't check your Bible quotes is because they are from the same place (in fact they were from the same watchtower link). JW's/Watchtower published their own Bible translation just to suit their own personal views.

[Cassiterides 1]

There was an article on Yahoo (Yahoo linked to) how that atheists and agnostics (and religious minorities) knew more about Xianity than the Christians did.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20101...acy-in-america/

 

63112[/snapback]

Because most Atheists are closet-Christians and most evolutionists closet-creationists. The only reason they pretend/say they are Atheists is fear (i.e of being mocked or ridiculed). Most scientists actually embrace creation or intelligent design ideas but are too scared to speak out in fear of losing their jobs.

 

Some people i know at my university when they are in public make typical atheist claims, but in person when things are quite and i speak to them about intelligent design or how they got here they start to see the evidence that we were designed and not just some accident from a primordial soup.

[MamaElephant 20]

There was an article on Yahoo (Yahoo linked to) how that atheists and agnostics (and religious minorities) knew more about Xianity than the Christians did.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20101...acy-in-america/

 

63112[/snapback]

I do not find it surprising. The majority of religious people just go along with their families. Those that are agnostic tend to look into different religions and the Bible and they do not find what they are looking for. Atheists tend to look at different religions and the Bible in order to explain their lack of faith.

 

My friends and I discussed this on facebook and took the religion quiz.

[MamaElephant 20]

You are incorrect from the first. I did not link an article from the Watchtower about men with long hair and neither did I quote anything. I gave my own view based on Bible study.

 

I leave threads when nothing constructive is occurring. I have already cited scriptures and if anyone is looking for answers they can read them in their own Bible. My goal is not to prove that JWs are right and everyone else is wrong. If that were my goal then I would continue arguing.

 

I have also linked to Creation.com. I almost always use their articles because that is the easiest site for me to use. I have also quoted scriptures from a Catholic website that I frequently use and a Bible search site that I frequently use.

 

The first century Christians had a committee of men who met together and made decisions for the group. You can find the way the Christians in the first century were organized by reading the book of Acts.

 

The definition of a cult would not include an organization that is operating in over 400 languages worldwide is always open to the public and bases their teachings on the Bible.

[Fred Williams 0]

Um, no. I find it very odd. I also don't understand why Cassiterides is using bait and switch debate tactics, as I was unaware that this was a debate.

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I do not see a "bait&switch" in this thread. You, a non-Christian, responded to a Christian's question (Cassiterides) on what the Bible says about long hair. Cass disagreed with your take by providing Bible verses, then mentioned what JWs believe about long hair on men. Now it is fair game to ask him to provide evidence JWs believe this about men's hair. Nevertheless, since you are not a Christian yet offer your opinion on Biblical doctrine, credibility of the source becomes entirely fair game. Imagine a tea-party forum where parental rights are being advocated. If an ACLU lawyer jumps in the debate and makes their case for child-rights, it would entirely appropriate for the tea-partier to ask the ACLU lawyer to explain why the ACLU supports the right to distribute child p*rn*gr*phy. The lawyer has no recourse, so may resort to protesting that this was "bait-n-switch", but it won't save him from losing his credibility in being able to provide an objective answer.

 

So, when non-Christians such as JWs, Mormons, Muslims, Jews (esp. NT), Hindus, etc provide their exegesis on the Bible, their credibility in doing so is fair game. In the case of JWs, the Bible teaches to not even listen to them since their leadership has a long history of false prophecies. JWs also do not believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God, yet anyone with the most rudimentary of reading skills overwhelmingly knows the text says otherwise. Even atheists don't deny that the NT clearly teaches that Jesus claims to be God. The former atheist C.S. Lewis aptly stated that Jesus is either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord. There is no other possibility based on the text.

 

That article states that there is never anything negative in the Bible about the ability to have children. This is incorrect. “Woe to the pregnant women and those suckling a baby in those days!” (Mt 24:19; Mr 13:17; Lu 21:23) Luke 23:29: "On the contrary, weep for yourselves and for YOUR children; 29 because, look! days are coming in which people will say, ‘Happy are the barren women, and the wombs that did not give birth and the breasts that did not nurse!’ "

You have entirely missed the point of these passages. This is a metaphor on how bad things will be in the Great Tribulation. It's not even remotely a discouragement against having kids, any more than one should literally pluck their eye out to not sin.

 

Fred

[MamaElephant 20]

I can read these verses:

 

English Standard Version (©2001)

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," --2 Corinthians 1:3

 

New International Version (©1984)

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." -- 1Coprinthians 11:3

 

Merriam-Webster Dictionary: Christian: 1a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus